STI .40 Single Stack Problem

[Anthony Lombardo]

yeah if you have a feed WALL like mine was, you will have problems with factory ammo of all different types.

The length of the round did not have much to do with helping relieve the problem because I tried all different lengths of ammo and bullet profiles.

Hey if your STI Trojan 40 runs fine, don't worry about it.

If yours does not, call Virgil Tripp.

How long an oal did you try? I went out to around 1.260 but I didn't notice any real change for the good beyond 1.230-1.240 (can't remember which). If the round is close enough to the ramp it really can't nose dive, no matter how steep the ramp is. If it's a flat or sharp shaped bullet it could hang up on a steep feed ramp without nose diving, but that's a different problem.

Again, these are the same barrels they put in 2011 bushing barrel guns and they aren't known to be a problem in those frames, so it has to be a geometry issue with distance between the mag and the ramp. They may have changed something since they were first introduced to help alleviate the issue in SS guns, but they haven't made different barrel lines for the different frames so it's interesting how this is happening.

Better yet, I have a friend that owns a barrel company...he sent me a barrel for the Trojan but haven't gotten around to sending it to the smith

The nose down feeding is a result of annular gap in single stack magazines. The grip angle of the 1911 was designed for 7 rds. Adding more rounds creates a greater gap bewteen round 1 and round #2. The more rounds the bigger the gap, the bigger the gap the greater the preponderance for low ramp strikes. You will notice that the problem goes away when you down load magazines. The situation improves when you use magzines that have a bit more room in the tube like Tripp as it takes a bit of tension off the top round. 10mm/40 is a hard feeding cartridge. Sometimes .45 mags work better. Sometimes they dont.

[Beretta Lover]

yep Anthony is correct and downloading the mags does help (it did with mine) additionally the one STI brand 8 rd 40 mag that I had ran fine with most OALs and profiles. It's just when you want to run 9 bullets in mine that it needed work.

I also went through STI, Tripp, Wilson, Novak, and CM mags and they did not run at 9 rds before the ramp work. After the ramp work every mag works with any length round and any profile bullet loaded to 9 rds.

Heck I can run 11 rds in the 10 rd 45 cal SS mags I have

[Mercstar]

Hi guys, this thread just about kills my infatuation with the Trojan in 40cal now ! I was told that STI has already fixed this problem with the new Trojans, and that the problem was caused by the mag catch being higher but there was no mention of the feed ramp at all. The solution they said is the return to standard 1911 mag catch design by STI. Not to disprove anyone here at all as Im more inclined to believe what the previous posts here have to say, but is this EVEN a plausible problem-solution "story" at all about the Trojans in 40cal?

Being a newbie with 1911s, I find it difficult to just accept the story, and at the same time hear a lot of complaints in this forum about it, it just doesnt make sense since it was so simple a fix that it took them this long to figure it out (if it really is the solution at all).

Thanks for any enlightenment you can shine my way!

[19852]

Not to change the subject, but since we are talking about single stack .40's, anyone used the CZ/Dan Wesson SS .40?

[G-ManBart]

Hi guys, this thread just about kills my infatuation with the Trojan in 40cal now ! I was told that STI has already fixed this problem with the new Trojans, and that the problem was caused by the mag catch being higher but there was no mention of the feed ramp at all. The solution they said is the return to standard 1911 mag catch design by STI. Not to disprove anyone here at all as Im more inclined to believe what the previous posts here have to say, but is this EVEN a plausible problem-solution "story" at all about the Trojans in 40cal?

Being a newbie with 1911s, I find it difficult to just accept the story, and at the same time hear a lot of complaints in this forum about it, it just doesnt make sense since it was so simple a fix that it took them this long to figure it out (if it really is the solution at all).

Thanks for any enlightenment you can shine my way!

I guess it's possible, but mine has an Ed Brown mag catch. I'll have to find the original one and compare the two. I would think that a mag catch that was higher would raise the magazine slightly and that would actually help feeding since the bullet would hit the ramp higher. First round nose dives generally find the bullet hitting the ramp quite low.

Either way I love the way my Trojan .40 shoots...just a sweet combination. R,

[RH45]

I also changed my mag release to an Ed Brown, but, not because the stock one didn't work, but, because I forgot to order the pistol with a drilled and tapped mag release, and I broke the tap off in the original one.

[Beretta Lover]

I also changed my mag release to an Ed Brown, but, not because the stock one didn't work, but, because I forgot to order the pistol with a drilled and tapped mag release, and I broke the tap off in the original one.

Guys, Beleive me when I tell you that I tried different mag catches, different mags, different bullet profiles, different OALs of loaded ammo.

The feedwall in the Trojan needs to be rewelded if you want it to run 9 rd magazines to capacity.

I used factory ammo and reloads.

Call Virgil Tripp and ask him what he thinks.

There is a universal truth that 99% of the time the hard way is the only way.

If you want a super reliable untuned 1911 buy a 45 ACP. They are plentiful and can be had for relatively low prices.

If you want to shoot a 40 or a 9mm, the gun has to be tuned.

My rewelded feedramp .40 Trojan is flawlessly reliable. It is heiniously accurate and the only problem with it to date has been the person shooting it.

I shot the Benning 3 gun this year and I ran it with 10 rd mags in it instead of a hicap 9mm XD or Beretta because I like it that much

[Mercstar]

Hi guys, this thread just about kills my infatuation with the Trojan in 40cal now ! I was told that STI has already fixed this problem with the new Trojans, and that the problem was caused by the mag catch being higher but there was no mention of the feed ramp at all. The solution they said is the return to standard 1911 mag catch design by STI. Not to disprove anyone here at all as Im more inclined to believe what the previous posts here have to say, but is this EVEN a plausible problem-solution "story" at all about the Trojans in 40cal?

Being a newbie with 1911s, I find it difficult to just accept the story, and at the same time hear a lot of complaints in this forum about it, it just doesnt make sense since it was so simple a fix that it took them this long to figure it out (if it really is the solution at all).

Thanks for any enlightenment you can shine my way!

I guess it's possible, but mine has an Ed Brown mag catch. I'll have to find the original one and compare the two. I would think that a mag catch that was higher would raise the magazine slightly and that would actually help feeding since the bullet would hit the ramp higher. First round nose dives generally find the bullet hitting the ramp quite low.

Either way I love the way my Trojan .40 shoots...just a sweet combination. R,

Hi G-ManBart,

I thought that too, it would seem strange that the problem is the mag catch sitting higher when in theory it should help in feeding and avoid nose diving.

[G-ManBart]

I also changed my mag release to an Ed Brown, but, not because the stock one didn't work, but, because I forgot to order the pistol with a drilled and tapped mag release, and I broke the tap off in the original one.

Guys, Beleive me when I tell you that I tried different mag catches, different mags, different bullet profiles, different OALs of loaded ammo.

The feedwall in the Trojan needs to be rewelded if you want it to run 9 rd magazines to capacity.

Just to save you from the incoming teasing, it's a feed ramp, not a feedwall.

The above might have been true with your gun, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true with all of them. Mine never, ever, not once, failed to feed while shooting regadless of whether it was before the ramp work or after. It took a little polishing/shaping on the feed ramp to get it to be 100% from slide lock, but that's all it took.

I haven't gone back and tried it with factory length ammo, but Matt McLearn tweaked the ramp and I gave him some WWB to test and he said it ran 100% with it before he sent it back. I'm still going to put the Schuemann barrel in it, but I'd shoot the SS Nationals with it just the way it is right now with no worries at all.

[TM262]

I had a similar problem with a custom built STI SS in .40. I am using the Tripp .40 magazines. The OAL on the bullets I started with was 1.150. With this ammo, the first round would nose dive or I had to manhandle the first round into the chamber. I never had a problem while shooting, but that first round just sucked.

The latest batch of ammo is 1.128 and it runs fine. Thank God my Limited gun will run the short ammo too. The reason I bought the .40 SS was so that I could use the same ammo in my SS and Limited gun.

I tried some ammo at 1.185 OAL out of my Chip .45 magazines and Wilson .45, but that did not work either.

The short length rounds (1.128 OAL) work in the .40 SS with 9rd Tripp .40, 10rd Chip .45 and 8rd Wilson .45 magazines. Go figure.

[Beretta Lover]

I also changed my mag release to an Ed Brown, but, not because the stock one didn't work, but, because I forgot to order the pistol with a drilled and tapped mag release, and I broke the tap off in the original one.

Guys, Beleive me when I tell you that I tried different mag catches, different mags, different bullet profiles, different OALs of loaded ammo.

The feedwall in the Trojan needs to be rewelded if you want it to run 9 rd magazines to capacity.

Just to save you from the incoming teasing, it's a feed ramp, not a feedwall.

I think you missed the play on words "feed wall" as in "not a ramp" Doh!

The above might have been true with your gun, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true with all of them. Mine never, ever, not once, failed to feed while shooting regadless of whether it was before the ramp work or after. It took a little polishing/shaping on the feed ramp to get it to be 100% from slide lock, but that's all it took.

I haven't gone back and tried it with factory length ammo, but Matt McLearn tweaked the ramp and I gave him some WWB to test and he said it ran 100% with it before he sent it back. I'm still going to put the Schuemann barrel in it, but I'd shoot the SS Nationals with it just the way it is right now with no worries at all.

[The Antichrome]

I was told that STI has already fixed this problem with the new Trojans

Does anyone know when STI supposedly solved this problem? Serial number range?

[oddjob]

I just got another Trojan .40 and asked STI regarding the serial # range. I'll let you guys (and ladies) know when they e-mail me back. Is Virgil Tripp back wrenching on guns??? I thought he stopped.

thanks.........ron

[G-ManBart]

I think you missed the play on words "feed wall" as in "not a ramp" Doh!

Rats....for a second I thought "is he making a play on words" but dismissed it ....d'oh is right

[Joe D]

The STI 9mm/.40 feed ramp issue is pretty well documented. Feed wall is an accurate description. I had two Kimber .40s that would feed everything with just about any mag. Another thing to keep an eye on is extractor tension. Too tight causes feed issues.

Numerous .45 mags worked along with 10mm mags.

[oddjob]

My serial # is KF82XX and their response was that it was a newer serial number. I would e-mail Chris at STI with your serial # and ask. Chris also mentioned to me they would fix any problems under warranty. Nice people.

[Mercstar]

My serial # is KF82XX and their response was that it was a newer serial number. I would e-mail Chris at STI with your serial # and ask. Chris also mentioned to me they would fix any problems under warranty. Nice people.

That's good to hear coming from Chris that yours is a newer one, I am sure a lot of guys will be happy to hear of what you'll be experiencing with regards to the problem. Does your Trojan sport the horse logo still on the slide? Have you tried it with a 10/40 mag already? Im keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Mercstar

[sgtlt]

I have a STI trojan in 40, I use metal form mags with the spacre in the back and it will feed almost any factory ammo. I think the spacers make all the diff.

[sgtlt]

I have a STI trojan in 40, I use metal form mags with the spacre in the back and it will feed almost any factory ammo. I think the spacers make all the diff.

[oddjob]

I can't shoot it for a couple of weeks......but I'll let you folks know.

[Mercstar]

I have a STI trojan in 40, I use metal form mags with the spacre in the back and it will feed almost any factory ammo. I think the spacers make all the diff.

Hi, are you using 8 or 10 round mags? Did your spacer come with the mags when you purchased it or a DIY ? Im happy to hear you are getting good shooting out of your Trojan 40cal. Any mods you made to make it run that way?

[Beretta Lover]

the spacer in the magazine has no effect on the feedwall problem

If you have a good ramp the mags dont matter

If you have a feedwall the mags dont matter

Usually rounds #5 and #9 will nose dive and cause the gun to jam if you have a bad ramp

[G-ManBart]

the spacer in the magazine has no effect on the feedwall problem

If you have a good ramp the mags dont matter

If you have a feedwall the mags dont matter

Usually rounds #5 and #9 will nose dive and cause the gun to jam if you have a bad ramp

I think there's a pretty good sized mountain of evidence that refutes at least two of those points. My gun, totally stock, with the original mag that has the spacer ran perfectly with factory ammo...slide lock loads were flawless. I didn't want to stick with that since I wanted to use the same ammo as I do for my Limited gun. Using a Wilson 47NX, Tripp, and CMC mag and 1.200" ammo the gun wouldn't feed from slide lock all of the time. The spacer clearly made all the difference if the gun ran with factory ammo.

With the aftermarket mags without spacers the ONLY round that would nose dive was #1...never #5 or 9.

Your particular gun may have done what you said, but that's not what everyone else is seeing. I spent dozens of hours working with different mags, different bullets, different lengths and I can say with absolute confidence that the mags can, and do make a difference. Then again, the same is known to be true with 45acp 1911s as well. If your gun doesn't run people ask what mags and what ammo right?

Further, the ramp in the Trojan barrel is the SAME barrel as they put in bushing 2011s like Eagles and nobody claims they're "feedwalls" or suggests they're unreliable. It's not the angle of the ramp, it's the placement of the ramp in relation to the mag. Move it back towards the mag slightly and the problem goes away entirely. Other model guns have steeper ramps than the Trojan, and they work just fine because the placement of the ramp is correct.

People who don't understand the geometry of the system think it's the angle of the ramp, but that isn't the issue in this case....move it farther back and it could be even steeper and it'd run just fine. Why? Because if the geometry is correct between ramp and mag, and ammo of a suitable OAL is used, the bullet is only going to contact the ramp on the upper third or maybe quarter...heck, it's nearly in the chamber at that point.

The 1911 frame and mag are designed around 1.250" oal give or take some. Putting a .40 barrel in it with the ramp in the same place as a .45 ramp is wrong. Even with "long" .40 ammo at 1.200" it's still .05" too short and that causes a bigger jump from mag to ramp. During that extra distance the back of the cartridge is held by the feed lips, but the nose of the bullet hasn't quite reached the ramp so it's hanging in the breeze....even with the follower pushing up as much as it can, the nose has nowhere to go but down....and it hits the ramp with upward pressure on the back of the case. Essentially, the round is rotating nose down and head up....not what you want. That simply isn't a recipe for smooth feeding since the bullet isn't pointed where it's supposed to go.

Look at the spacer in those factory mags. How thick is it? I just measure mine and it was .100". Now, measure some factory .40 and you're normally going to get around 1.15" give or take a bit. 1.15" plus the spacer of .100" and amazingly we get 1.250".....coincidence? Not likely.

I settled on 1.250" ammo for my Trojan after many days of testing and a box full of dummy rounds loaded with various bullets and OALs and it eats them like M&M's......again, no coincidence. Either load really long ammo to put the bullet where it needs to be in relation to the ramp, or get a barrel with a ramp moved back towards the bullet (or have someone weld up the stock barrel to do the same thing) so that the same relationship will exist for shorter ammo. At the end of all that, it's really nothing more than the distance from the nose of the bullet to the face of the ramp that is the critical factor, not the specific angle of the ramp. R,

[Mercstar]

My serial # is KF82XX and their response was that it was a newer serial number. I would e-mail Chris at STI with your serial # and ask. Chris also mentioned to me they would fix any problems under warranty. Nice people.

HI, does your Trojan with #KF82XX still has the horse logo on the slide? Im just trying to correlate if they were removed on the slide starting with the "newer" serial numbers as an easier way to identifying them off hand. Anyone of you guys with the "horseless" Trojan slide having the same problem?

[Mercstar]

G-manBart,

I have to commend your previous post and feel that your opinion is very well explained and detailed that it puts light and understanding to the subject more.

Guys,

I have been researching on the Trojan 5.0 in 40cal for a few months already, and given the variety of experience of Trojan 40cal owners on the subject, maybe we could make a poll of Trojan 5-40cal owners or have a series of question answered on this thread.

As a lot of us have seen, we cant seem to find a common cure to this problem. Also given that a lot of us also frequent other forums, I have noticed a few posts that are very similar with each other even with the OPs replies which could probably be assumed that they are from the same owners posting on different forums. This seem to magnify the problem if not confuse the whole issue all the more. Of course this is not to say that this is being propagated by only a few people so incensed by the problem that they rant about the model in different forums, I dont think those members are like that at all.

Anyway, what I intend to achieve is to draw some kind of baseline data to understand the problem vis-a-vis solutions applied on the subject. Questions like the following to shed some probable correlation on the problem and solution:

1. What production year model is your Trojan 5-40cal? (even approximate, the first 4 digits of the serial number would be dandy though)

2. Trojan 5 -40cal owners, did you:

a.) experience no feeding problem with stock mags using factory load only

b.) experience no feeding problem with stock mags using hand loads only

c.) experience no feeding problem with stock mags using either factory or long hand loads

d.) experience problems with stock mags with either factory or hand load.

3. next is this question: Did you experience feeding problem :

a.) only when using 10 round mags

b.) only when no mag spacer is used

c.) regardless of mags being used

4. next would be people's experience, if they:

a.) resolved the problem with re welding of the feed ramp

b.) resolved the problem with the use of mag spacers

c.) resolved the problem with another method than above

I dont know if you guys agree if these questions would help understand the issue more, but these are the questions I would have wanted to be answered though to draw some similarities and differences to the problems encountered with the model. Your suggestions will be very much welcome so please do edit as you please.