Operation Tackdriver

[gm iprod]

I tried some of the new bullets last week as well. Vertically strung group 30mm x 20mm 9 shots. About the size of the last joint pn my thumb.

Same barrel since 2005, 120k rounds on it.

I have a new Schumann barrel to go in next year but I have some time issues.

[thock]

That looks sweet, Kevin.

Tracy

[9146gt]

Did some more ammo testing last weekend. This time I used the new Zero 115 grain JHP product #135. Group was fired from 50 yards.

The group measured 0.473". Used the same gun as last time but it now has a KKM barrel.

I like to call these pictures, now you see it, now you don't. Group was covered with a nickel.

Hey Kevin if I drop off my gun next week will you train it before the CUP next year

Tom

Edited December 11, 2011 by 9146gt

[Action Pistolero]

Sure, Tom. No problem. I believe the nut behind the trigger could use the training.

[kimmbeckwith]

Thank Kevin!!!! Looks great, now we'll have back ordereds for 12 months!!!

[Action Pistolero]

Thank Kevin!!!! Looks great, now we'll have back ordereds for 12 months!!!

Yea, I will be sending an email to Fred telling him to be sure and make several tons of them quickly.

[BigDave]

Kim - what's the difference between your R125-A and R135-A bullet?

[Action Pistolero]

Kim - what's the difference between your R125-A and R135-A bullet?

Hello Dave,

What rock did you crawl out from. Haven't heard from you in years. Thought you dropped off the face of the Earth.

The 135 looks like an HAP except a 115 grain and it has the same base as the R125. I had a picture showing it in here somewhere but I haven't found it.

Looking to make a comeback?

[kimmbeckwith]

Kim - what's the difference between your R125-A and R135-A bullet?

Hello Dave,

What rock did you crawl out from. Haven't heard from you in years. Thought you dropped off the face of the Earth.

The 135 looks like an HAP except a 115 grain and it has the same base as the R125. I had a picture showing it in here somewhere but I haven't found it.

Looking to make a comeback?

Thanks Kevin, it shoots really well, Kevin uses the 115 and I use the 125. I am having a new KKM barrel put in one of my Gilmore guns. Well see which shoots best in it. Kevin and I both have had some great groups from this new bullett. Hope to see you in Columbia Dave.

[gm iprod]

OK the bullets are clearly OK, what is with all the non 10's.

If anyone figures that out, do let me know. Another bloody odd numbered score last time out.

Look I even got desperate and bought a gunshop to see if that would help.

[Service Desk]

Did some more ammo testing last weekend. This time I used the new Zero 115 grain JHP product #135. Group was fired from 50 yards.

The group measured 0.473". Used the same gun as last time but it now has a KKM barrel.

I like to call these pictures, now you see it, now you don't. Group was covered with a nickel.

Kevin,

Is the KKM a 1:32 twist ?

[kimmbeckwith]

You know I talked to Kevin McIntire at KKM and he doesn't really like to tell anyone the twist because it is slower than alot of people think! I told him I DON'T CARE AS LONG AS IT SHOOTS!

Kim

[Action Pistolero]

OK the bullets are clearly OK, what is with all the non 10's.

If anyone figures that out, do let me know. Another bloody odd numbered score last time out.

Look I even got desperate and bought a gunshop to see if that would help.

I believe it has something to do with the nut behind the trigger and how much alcohol he consumed the night before.

KKM barrels are 1:32 twist. I have been told that this is the standard twist that they use. I was never a believer in the 1:32 twist but I'm a believer now. You can request a 1:16 and they make a 1:24 for Montana Gold bullets. I have 2 KKM's now and will be changing all my guns to use them as their barrels where out. My gunsmith has 5 Action guns in the works now and they all have KKM barrels.

[JerryShoots]

I've often considered taking a try at Bianchi Cup. That's a very fine pistol and judging from your results your a very accurate shooter. Would you suggest that a new person begin in the iron sight division or in open to have the advantage of the optics?

[DWFAN]

Good Shooting Kevin.. Now if you can just make 12 targets and 6 plates look like that next May..

I called to order a KKM barrel. Spoke whoever answered the phone. I asked for a 1:32 barrel, got placed on hold and then Kevin picked it up.

"I understand you want a 1:32 barrel". Yep.

"What are you going to do with it?" Uh.. Umm.. I'm going to put it in my bianchi gun.

"What bullet are you going to shoot?" Zero or Hornady.

"Oh.. Ok, where do we send it? I wont just sell them to anyone, because people will complain about the accuracy with anything greater than 115gr, or when they dont shoot Zero, Hornady or Sierra bullets. The twist on the barrels you order on the website are 1:24 and those will shoot just about anything just not as well as a 115 in the 1:32"

Then we talked about loads and his suggested velocity for the 1:32 barrels.

Hope my Schuemann makes it another 6-7000 rounds and gets me through the cup.

[Action Pistolero]

I've often considered taking a try at Bianchi Cup. That's a very fine pistol and judging from your results your a very accurate shooter. Would you suggest that a new person begin in the iron sight division or in open to have the advantage of the optics?

I often tell new shooters the best way to start shooting Action Pistol (Bianchi matches) is to get a rimfire and put red dot on it. The rimfire class is a lot of fun and the guns are cheap. Unfortunately, we cannot shoot a rimfire at Bianchi. That being said, the cheapest centerfire would be a revolver. A 686+ with a red dot would be a good way to go. I have an old Ron Power open class revolver that is a joy to shoot and is what I use when I get burned out shooting the auto.

The iron sight division is separated into 2 categories, Metallic and Production. The difference between the two is the Metallic guns are tricked out autos and revolvers. Production guns are basically right out of the box DA/SA autos or revolvers.

For the purpose of this discussion, we'll just deal with Open and the Iron sight divisions. I would suggest Open class to a beginner for 2 reasons. A red dot is easier to be precise with and faster to align the sight on target allowing the shooter to concentrate more on trigger control. It is also easier to make the time limits because of this. Your scores will also be higher in Open giving a positive feeling about your shooting therefore making it more enjoyable.

In the mid 90's, I decided that I needed a comped 45 single stack Open gun to shoot USPSA with. Just goes to show what I knew at the time. A so called gunsmith messed up the barrel and slide trying to build it so I went to another gunsmith with a new slide and barrel and ended up with a 9x23. I couldn't find a USPSA match near me but I did luck out in finding an Action Pistol match so I had it set up to shoot minor. I started shooting more matches in Open and slowly built the gun into a full blown Open gun. I tried iron sights but had a hard time with it. After I shot Open for a few years, I picked up the iron sighted gun again and did a lot better and started to enjoy the challenge. By that time, the time limits were second nature so I knew how long that I could take to align the sights and work the trigger.

Hope this helps and let me know if I can help with anything else.

Good Shooting Kevin.. Now if you can just make 12 targets and 6 plates look like that next May..

I called to order a KKM barrel. Spoke whoever answered the phone. I asked for a 1:32 barrel, got placed on hold and then Kevin picked it up.

"I understand you want a 1:32 barrel". Yep.

"What are you going to do with it?" Uh.. Umm.. I'm going to put it in my bianchi gun.

"What bullet are you going to shoot?" Zero or Hornady.

"Oh.. Ok, where do we send it? I wont just sell them to anyone, because people will complain about the accuracy with anything greater than 115gr, or when they dont shoot Zero, Hornady or Sierra bullets. The twist on the barrels you order on the website are 1:24 and those will shoot just about anything just not as well as a 115 in the 1:32"

Then we talked about loads and his suggested velocity for the 1:32 barrels.

Hope my Schuemann makes it another 6-7000 rounds and gets me through the cup.

Jeremy,

It would be very nice if I could shoot that well through the 4 events. If I could just get all 48 in the 10 ring on the Mover I would be happy.

What did Kevin say about loads and velocities?

A friend of mine wanted to convert his STI Trojan into an Open gun so I suggested that he get a KKM barrel. He told me that he talked to Kevin and he told him what I posted. I'll have to send Kevin an email or call him and discuss things. What first impressed me with the the KKM was the deep cut rifling. I had always used Kart until a few years ago when I noticed that the rifling was shallow. They didn't shoot as well for me then the older ones.

[DWFAN]

We talked about using something medium speed and consistant like N330 and 1150-1180fps. just like you run. No real surprises or tricks.

Im good w titegroup for now, but have 4lbs WST to test also. Nuss uses N320 and has good luck.

For not having a KKM installed, I was impressed w our discussion and his desire to get me the barrel I needed..

Edited December 16, 2011 by DWFAN

[Action Pistolero]

I had a little N330 and used it to work up a load for a 9mm Open gun. It worked very well. It seems to be difficult to come by though as I haven't found many places that even list it.

I never had much luck with N320.

[kimmbeckwith]

I had a little N330 and used it to work up a load for a 9mm Open gun. It worked very well. It seems to be difficult to come by though as I haven't found many places that even list it.

I never had much luck with N320.

Powder Valley, Winfield, KS, $32.00 per lb.!!!!

There you go Kev!

[DougCarden]

Um....WST doesnt work too well in the 9mm case, in my experience....38super/9x23 it is great.

You can use load data for 330/340 pretty much interchangably for the 9mm accuracy load. Good stuff!

DougC

Edited December 17, 2011 by DougCarden

[Action Pistolero]

I had a little N330 and used it to work up a load for a 9mm Open gun. It worked very well. It seems to be difficult to come by though as I haven't found many places that even list it.

I never had much luck with N320.

Powder Valley, Winfield, KS, $32.00 per lb.!!!!

There you go Kev!

Yikes!!!!

I may just stick with WST.

Thanks Kim.

Doug,

WST will work in a 9 but it is difficult to make pf. Whichever case can hold the most powder for the chosen OAL would be the way to go.

[gm iprod]

Kevin,.

$32 a lb you lucky lucky bastards. That crap is close on $65lb (US) a lb here, that is why I shoot TG. Available in both places and cheaper than a bunch of powders. Especially 8lbs at a time.

[Action Pistolero]

Yea I know, we are spoiled when it comes to component prices. I'm getting an 8lb keg of WST for $95 so 8lbs of N330 would be $256 plus shipping. Doesn't sound like it will be worth the hassle.

How's business?

[Spangler]

I'll start this by saying that I only just finished my second full year of AP and MOST of the folks on here have by far much more experience and knowledge than I. That's mostly why you rarely hear from me, but I'm guessing there are some newbies that also read so here goes.

IF anyone doubts Kevin's ability to make a (any) gun shoot very well or Alan's knowledge of working through loads and testing, please see my pic. I bought Kevin's back up gun last year (Jan 2010). Keep in mind I had never owned a 1911 until then. Alan had to take it apart for me so I could clean it (and then put it back together) ... This group was shot with 231 powder and Montana Gold bullets at 50 yards off a sand bag, and yes the first shot went into the berm as Alan suggests. This completely makes sense when testing. At that point we are just testing load accuracy. Understood that's different than in a match situation, but I doubt Kevin sights his gun off sand bags either. Get the best group out of your gun, then set the sights to zero point. I also shot sub 2.5" group at 100yds (NOT a typo)last weekend out of my Metallic STI that Kevin worked on including reaming to 9x23 and doing a trigger job. I figure if testing at 50 is good then 100 is twice as good, right? I'd guess they might both tell you I'm a bit retentive when it comes to testing and load data.

I acutally have several points here. 1-Having the right person set up your gun is absolutely invaluable...2-Getting the MOST out of your gun can take a lot of testing, but WELL worth it and results may amaze you. Don't take shortcuts here. 3-Don't underestimate MG bullets 4-And MOST IMPORTANT---LISTEN to what others tell you and at least try it.

I'm incredibly lucky to belong to the Bedford Club and get all the advice and help from these guys. Where else could you get into AP where even with only 2 years experience...They are able to help me win over 20 plaques, set 5 National records, and be Distinguished in both Open and Metallic classes???

Thanks guys..Hope all have a Great Christmas and look forward to seeing you next year!!

Mark

[Beladran]

.47 group is freaking sweet!

this is my baby, kinda crappy cell phone pic but she gets the job done.