My new Benelli M2 and 922r Compliance

[arjuna70]

Hello everyone. I just got the M2 21" barrel last week. I added a GG&G Tactical Bolt Release Pad, Dave's Metal Works Charging Handle, Nordic Components 5rd extension tube, and Nordic Extension Tube Clamp.

Another shooter advised me at the range that my Benelli M2 is now not compliant with 922r. Is this true? These mods seem to be pretty basic to 3-Gun competitors. Is everyone shooting "illegal" shotguns or is there something that I am missing.

I did try to answer my question via the Search feature of the forum but was unable to find it. If there is an appropriate thread, please direct me to it. Thanks for the help.

[bigbrowndog]

unless you live in a very gun restrictive state, I don't think the Federal laws are going to affect your M2. however there are a lot of people out there that still use the terms pre ban and post ban, even though the ban has gone away.

trapr

[Religious Shooter]

Another shooter advised me at the range that my Benelli M2 is now not compliant with 922r. Is this true? These mods seem to be pretty basic to 3-Gun competitors. Is everyone shooting "illegal" shotguns or is there something that I am missing.

922R only applies to foreign made firearms. American made guns (Remington) are cool.

I have an M2. I made it compliant by using a DMW follower, Speedfeed stock and a DMW tube. All American made.

Basically you can only have 10 foreign made parts. By my interpretation the M2 has the parts that are marked red:

The Imported Parts Law (1990)

(178.39 otherwise known as 922® 10 Foreign parts law on semiauto Rifles & Shotguns)

Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c ) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

(b ) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of Sec. 178.151; or

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c ) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings

(2) Barrels

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)

(5) Muzzle attachments

(6) Bolts

(7) Bolt carriers

(8) Operating rods

(9) Gas pistons

(10) Trigger housings

(11) Triggers

(12) Hammers

(13) Sears

(14) Disconnectors

(15) Buttstocks

(16) Pistol grips

(17) Forearms, handguards

(18) Magazine bodies

(19) Followers

(20) Floorplates

By MY interpretation the M2 has 12 parts. I replaced 3 foreign parts with US made parts (follower, buttstock and mag extension). By my interpretation that takes it down to 9 parts (12-3=9). It can be argued that the DMW tube extension is not the same as "(18) Magazine bodies". If so, that would still mean I have 10 parts... which would still make it legal.

Also an ATF letter says the M4 has only 11 parts:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/nodark/pg1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/nodark/pg2.jpg

That ATF letter doesn't include the sear and disconnector as a parts found in the M4.

So if you agree with the ATF letter that there are only 11 parts on the list... ASSuming the M2 has basically same make up... It's arguable that the M2 with the Comfotech stock doesn't have a "(16) Pistol Grips." You would then only have (11-1=10) 10 parts. Since you only have 10 parts you therefore have a legal configuration per the above stipulations.

If I were you I would get a DMW or Nordic follower to further reduce the number of foreign parts.

[Religious Shooter]

I would also note that foreign made guns that were grandfathered (11/30/90?) are exempt.

[arjuna70]

Thank you so much for taking the time for your detailed answer. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Let me just clarify. As long as you add US Made parts, you can continue to modify the weapon. So you need to have 10 or less foreign parts on the weapon to make it compliant once you modify it.

I have 10 foreign made parts at this point. If I add the Nordic mag follower and another US part bringing it down to 8 parts that would be legal under the 922r law. My head always spins when these discussions come up.

[Religious Shooter]

Yes. But to be clearer... the parts have to be listed in section (c ) (you can't just replace any part... it has to be on the list for it to count).

[esskay]

R.S.

Was wondering as to your interpretation of the number of parts. You noted 12 total parts.

One part you did not mark in red is "Bolt carrier." I had always thought of this being a relevant part for the Benelli given how you field strip the bolt assembly and the chrome bolt head. But I just looked at the manual and a parts schematic, and sure enough Benelli identifies a "Bolt" and a "Bolt Locking Head," not a bolt and bolt carrier. So thinking about it more, just the chrome "locking head" would be nearly impossible to justify as being a "bolt" from a functional perspective and should be considered a non-relevant part, and in fact the bolt is just the "bolt" not a "carrier." So perhaps one less line item to worry about by my count?

However, you marked "sear" in red. I hadn't counted this part before, and I don't see a sear identified anywhere on Benelli's parts schematic. In fact, isn't the "sear" on a Benelli trigger group really built into its trigger? So the trigger counts as a line item but there isn't a separate sear, right?

So it would seem reasonable to conclude that an M1/M2 for purposes of 922r has:

11 parts (with straight stock)

12 parts (with pistol grip stock, if the PG itself is considered a separate part though I'm not sure if it's actually user removable, maybe buttstock+PG are still one part?)

Thoughts?

922 PARTS

1. Receiver, #163

2. Barrel, #156

3. Bolt, #7

4. Trigger Housing, #147

5. Trigger, #146

6. Hammer, #85

7. Disconnector, #160

8. Buttstock, #165

9. Pistol grip, not shown (if applicable?)

10. Forearm, #59

11. Magazine body, #103

12. Follower, #98

Schematic on Brownells

Edited April 30, 2009 by esskay

[StealthyBlagga]

Let me jump it here. My understanding of 922 r is that it only applies if you take an imported gun and convert it into an unimportable configuration. Whether a gun is importable or unimportable is determined by the number of points it gets from the BATFE in order to qualify as "sporting". In pistols, for example, sporting features such as an anatomical grip or adjustable sights win points with the BATFE, which I believe is why baby Glocks have those silly, vestigial indentations on the side of the grip and the el cheapo adjustable sights . In the case of your shotgun, I don't believe that adding the magazine extension alone would transform it into a non-sporting configuration, as there are numerous foreign-made shotguns imported with long magazines. I really don't think you have to worry at all about the foreign part count.

I believe 922 r would come into play if you added a pistol grip stock or similar, thus transforming your duck gun into a fearsome "weapon of war" . From what I read, you probably want to avoid a PG stock on your M2 anyway, at least if you want it to function reliably.

[Religious Shooter]

Was wondering as to your interpretation of the number of parts. You noted 12 total parts.

...

So it would seem reasonable to conclude that an M1/M2 for purposes of 922r has:

11 parts (with straight stock)

12 parts (with pistol grip stock, if the PG itself is considered a separate part though I'm not sure if it's actually user removable, maybe buttstock+PG are still one part?)

Thoughts?

922 PARTS

1. Receiver, #163

2. Barrel, #156

3. Bolt, #7

4. Trigger Housing, #147

5. Trigger, #146

6. Hammer, #85

7. Disconnector, #160

8. Buttstock, #165

9. Pistol grip, not shown (if applicable?)

10. Forearm, #59

11. Magazine body, #103

12. Follower, #98

I think your argument is sound. And I think your interpretation is defensible. But of course what I think doesn't mean much if the agent/cop/prosecutor wants your butt.

My main reason to include the sear is... how can you have a hammer without a sear? IMHO the ATF letter for the M4 is wrong. So I included the sear in my count.

When I was looking at this I also came to the realization that maybe if several of the listed parts was one part... then it was counted as only one part. But the problem with that is the pistol grip and the stock on the M1/M2 is one whole part. Yet it is counted as two. So the conclusion that one piece consisting of several parts = 1 part isn't too solid for me because of this discrepancy.

Furthermore...

This letter for the M1 includes the "bolt carrier" in the make-up of an M1. Even though the schematic doesn't have a "bolt carrier".

I would say that the M1 is closer to the M2 than the M4 is. This letter is saying that the M1 with a PG has 13 parts. So per this letter I'm interpreting that a standard stock M1 has 12.

So with my Speedfeed stock (2 parts) and DMW follower (1 part) (13-3=10) I'm legal per the counts in the M1 letter and the M4 letter.

All you need to do is get an American stock and follower and you would be OK using the counts from either letter.

AFAIK the only other part (other than stock and follower) that's American made, widely available, and is on the list are the Surefire forearms.

http://www.surefire.com/BenelliSuper90SNaboveM104800

But they look stupid and they cost $$$.

[Religious Shooter]

... In the case of your shotgun, I don't believe that adding the magazine extension alone would transform it into a non-sporting configuration, as there are numerous foreign-made shotguns imported with long magazines. I really don't think you have to worry at all about the foreign part count.

I would prefer your interepretation.

But if you go to Benelli's website the straight stock Tactical M2's are shown with neutered extensions. PG M2's are shown and sold with neutered extensions.

The ATF has interpreted that the addition of a mag extension to an ungranfathered M1 and M2 (that makes it capable of holding 6+ in the tube) requires that it made compliant with 922R. It's the more than 5 in the tube criteria that makes it "evil". Not the PG.

If you refer to the M1 letter:

"A shotgun having a magazine capacity of more than five shells is prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3) since it fails to meet sporting firearms criteria.

Therefore, it is a violation of 18 U.S.C. 922® to assemble such a shotgun from more than 10 of the imported parts specified in..."

Of course if there is newer documentation overiding this...

[esskay]

I think your argument is sound. And I think your interpretation is defensible. But of course what I think doesn't mean much if the agent/cop/prosecutor wants your butt.

My main reason to include the sear is... how can you have a hammer without a sear? IMHO the ATF letter for the M4 is wrong. So I included the sear in my count.

When I was looking at this I also came to the realization that maybe if several of the listed parts was one part... then it was counted as only one part. But the problem with that is the pistol grip and the stock on the M1/M2 is one whole part. Yet it is counted as two. So the conclusion that one piece consisting of several parts = 1 part isn't too solid for me because of this discrepancy.

Furthermore...

This letter for the M1 includes the "bolt carrier" in the make-up of an M1. Even though the schematic doesn't have a "bolt carrier".

I would say that the M1 is closer to the M2 than the M4 is. This letter is saying that the M1 with a PG has 13 parts. So per this letter I'm interpreting that a standard stock M1 has 12.

So with my Speedfeed stock (2 parts) and DMW follower (1 part) (13-3=10) I'm legal per the counts in the M1 letter and the M4 letter.

All you need to do is get an American stock and follower and you would be OK using the counts from either letter.

AFAIK the only other part (other than stock and follower) that's American made, widely available, and is on the list are the Surefire forearms.

http://www.surefire.com/BenelliSuper90SNaboveM104800

But they look stupid and they cost $$$.

I see what you were thinking. I suppose someone could try to make an argument on the bolt/bolt carrier issue, since they are in fact two discrete parts. While the "locking head" is functionally in no way a "bolt", and the Benelli supplied parts schematic backs us up... if you look at Benelli's parts schematics for the M4 (or the USMC TM for the M1014) the "bolt" is referred to as a "bolt carrier" (part #026J) and the "locking head" is referred to as a "bolt head" (part #032J). So theoretically, the M4 has a "bolt carrier" and no "bolt"! Anyway, those are two & distinct separate parts.

But the trigger is one solid piece of metal (which also encompasses the *function* of a sear), but it is still one solid piece of metal. Hard to see how anyone could argue that single piece of metal constitutes TWO parts. However -- the Benelli PG stock, while comes as a single assembly, is not composed of a single solid piece of molded plastic -- even if glued together or however else Benelli manufactures them they have more than one physical part comprising the buttstock assembly with the rubbery piece, etc.

So my conclusion then -- Even though it is perfectly reasonable to assert 11 parts (even w/ a PG, more solid ground with straight stock), seems like assuming 13 parts (w/ PG) or 12 parts (w/ straight stock) is a sufficiently conservative way to go. Making it 14 parts (with the addition of the non-existent "sear") would seem overboard.

By the way, isn't all this 922r stuff ironic? "Sporting firearms criteria" We're building these shotguns exactly for that purpose --a sport!!

Edited May 1, 2009 by esskay

[StealthyBlagga]

... In the case of your shotgun, I don't believe that adding the magazine extension alone would transform it into a non-sporting configuration, as there are numerous foreign-made shotguns imported with long magazines. I really don't think you have to worry at all about the foreign part count.

I would prefer your interepretation.

But if you go to Benelli's website the straight stock Tactical M2's are shown with neutered extensions. PG M2's are shown and sold with neutered extensions.

The ATF has interpreted that the addition of a mag extension to an ungranfathered M1 and M2 (that makes it capable of holding 6+ in the tube) requires that it made compliant with 922R. It's the more than 5 in the tube criteria that makes it "evil". Not the PG.

If you refer to the M1 letter:

"A shotgun having a magazine capacity of more than five shells is prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3) since it fails to meet sporting firearms criteria.

Therefore, it is a violation of 18 U.S.C. 922® to assemble such a shotgun from more than 10 of the imported parts specified in..."

Of course if there is newer documentation overiding this...

I bow to your greater knowledge. This silly and confusing situation is why I run a Remington 11-87... plus it shoots softer and runs like a Swiss watch . The picture below simply oozes eeeeevillll .

Edited May 1, 2009 by StealthyBlagga

[Stuck in C]

The only Speedfeed stocks I can find are pistol grips-which I don't want. Does Speedfeed make a non-PG stock for the Benelli? Any other American made stocks out there? How about the Bell and Carlson (more $ than Speedfeed)? I would like to get my Benelli into 922® compliance with a greater than 5 shell capacity (I leave mine at five even though I have a Nordic extension-I too have a letter from the BATFE). All I need is the stock to have the 10 or fewer evil imported parts. This has to be one of the dumber laws/regulations in existence-although I understand (and disagree with) the original intent.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Stuck in C

[scirocco38s]

I would build it the way I wanted it and tell the guy aat the range to mind his own business.

[mpeltier]

I have been looking for a document from the ATF regarding this very subject. Unfortunately I can't find it. What it said basically was that 922r was drafted as an import restriction and not aimed at the individual owners of the shotguns and that the ATF had no interest in looking at those in the sport shooting world looking to tinker with our shotguns. If you commit a crime with said shotgun, that would be a different story, but I don't think there are to many ATF agents hiding behind the tree's at the local 3-gun match.

[steel1212]

I have been looking for a document from the ATF regarding this very subject. Unfortunately I can't find it. What it said basically was that 922r was drafted as an import restriction and not aimed at the individual owners of the shotguns and that the ATF had no interest in looking at those in the sport shooting world looking to tinker with our shotguns. If you commit a crime with said shotgun, that would be a different story, but I don't think there are to many ATF agents hiding behind the tree's at the local 3-gun match.

More than likely you have ATF agents shooting said 3 gun matches with said illegal guns.

[Religious Shooter]

How do you know they are illegal?

How do you know they haven't complied (like I have)?

[Religious Shooter]

How about the Bell and Carlson (more $ than Speedfeed)?

Bell and Carlson makes straight stocks for the M1. I don't know how easy it would be to covert it to the M2.

Buy one and let us know how you did it.

[Stuck in C]

Mine is an M1, so the B&C will fit. And mpeltier is correct: so far, BATFE has never cared about individual owners of shotguns. They've got plenty of other stuff to keep them busy. But,do you trust that the interpretation won't change, and that they will tell us if it does? I don't. So I'd just as soon make mine compliant and quit worrying.

[Booyakasha]

I really would like to purchase a benelli m2 field and add a mag tube, but this rule seems a bit nonsensical. With that being said, I don't want to drop another $500 on new items that I don't really need. I mean, why buy a great gun if you have to replace everything inside of it?

So to make things easy and cheap, what do I need replaced if I want to add a +5 tube on the shotgun and still be compliant?

Also, what are the chances that anyone will actually take away way my firearm for not being compliant other than me waving it in front of ATF HQs?

[cas]

The answer is aftermarket parts.

[lee blackman]

+1 CAS, the smartest man on here....

922® technically doesn't effect you, but rather whomever manufactures or assembles the gun. It does not prohibit possession of the illegally manufactured gun...

(a) As used in this chapter—

(1) The term “person” and the term “whoever” include any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society, or joint stock company.

(2) The term “interstate or foreign commerce” includes commerce between any place in a State and any place outside of that State, or within any possession of the United States (not including the Canal Zone) or the District of Columbia, but such term does not include commerce between places within the same State but through any place outside of that State. The term “State” includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the possessions of the United States (not including the Canal Zone).

® It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—

(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

[Religious Shooter]

I really would like to purchase a benelli m2 field and add a mag tube, but this rule seems a bit nonsensical. With that being said, I don't want to drop another $500 on new items that I don't really need. I mean, why buy a great gun if you have to replace everything inside of it?

So to make things easy and cheap, what do I need replaced if I want to add a +5 tube on the shotgun and still be compliant?

Also, what are the chances that anyone will actually take away way my firearm for not being compliant other than me waving it in front of ATF HQs?

I haven't really seen any new American made parts for the M2 (that a DIY shooter can get) since this thread was started.

If you are really set on an M2 the only parts that are American made (and can be had by the normal shooter) that I know of is (still) the follower and the stock.

If you want an M2 you can get one from Salient Arms, Taran Tactical and maybe Triangle Shooting Sports ready to go.

...or get a Remington Versa-Max. Made in America.

[Booyakasha]

Actually I was debating between the 1301 or m2. The beretta has everything I need minus tube and 26 barrel length and it's a little bit cheaper. The m2 is more easily customizable but the $400-500 more I have to spend could go on ammo instead

[Religious Shooter]

The Beretta... find out where it is made. To me if the "Tactical" version of a shotgun only comes from the factory with a 5 round tube, it screams at me that it is a foreign shotgun.