IronEqualizer Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 A buddy and I were talking the other night and it came up that he saw some very good shooters at area 6 shooting 3 rounds at each partial or head shot only target past 10yds or so. Is this the way to go to help ensure no mikes? It seems it adds a second or more to your time as each head shot or partial takes more time to shoot. Your chance of having a mike does go way down but is it worth the time. I am pretty sure this technique would not be used on targets with no shoots covering an area. These were M and GMs witnessed doing this. Anybody else tend to do this? AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Only if I called a bad shot with one of the first two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 (edited) Um ............. maybe on partials beyond 30 yards, but certainly not past 10 yards. But keep in mind that the farther away a partial is ... the longer each shot takes to call make, therefore each makeup shot will cost you that much more. Call Every Shot Edited December 20, 2008 by CHRIS KEEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 the longer each shot takes to call, therefore each makeup shot will cost you that much more. Are you sure you worded that correctly? Calling the shot has no time difference regardless of what you are shooting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Your right Jake. Calling the shot is instantaneous. Aiming however takes longer on longer shots, especially partials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 If you shoot to win sometimes you might, If you shoot to loose you always will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronEqualizer Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 If you shoot to win sometimes you might,If you shoot to loose you always will. Very interesting response. AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDOUBLETAP Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Only if I called a bad shot with one of the first two... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisa006 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 At the 2007 nationals I watched most of the production super squad take 3 on a 15yrd+- head shot before moving to the next position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Anybody else tend to do this? Not me. Extra shot if I didn't call a good shot. Extra shot if I am shooting on the move at a near running pace and have extra rounds to burn...and I don't have to lose time in doing so. Extra shot on steel under the same conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I used to take three shots because I didn't see any of what I needed to. I now take three shots because I see more, but still not all of what I need to. I expect that someday I'll take only two shots because I'll have seen what I needed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 At the 2007 nationals I watched most of the production super squad take 3 on a 15yrd+- head shot before moving to the next position. At the 2008 Nationals I took 4 shots on a far (25+ yrd) partial, which was essentially a head shot with a wee bit of the c zone under it. Remember the stage with the fast pendulum swinger ? Went down to check hits with the RO's and I had ALL 4 HITS. Lesson learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 If you shoot to win sometimes you might,If you shoot to loose you always will. Very interesting response. AL That is a good one. Shooting insurance shots is not only a bad habit, it keeps the bad habit in place. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 +1- only if I called a bad shot. I finally got tired with scorers asking "do you know that you shot these targets 3 times?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 So is taking a 3rd shot at a target without "calling" it an ego thing for advanced shooters? I'm a IPSC/USPSA Newbie. I agree that I'd take a third at a shot on the move, if it wouldn't cost me more time anyway, and since I shoot production, if I know there's only one or two more in the mag, and I'm reloading anyway... No sense dropping 3-4 rounds in the dirt if you can put another down range. They score the best two whether you "call" it or not... it's not hits per shot fired, its hit per second. Am I wrong? I guess it's like an experienced basketball player calling "glass" if he's going to bank in a jumper... LOL Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 So is taking a 3rd shot at a target without "calling" it an ego thing for advanced shooters? I really don't understand what you are asking there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 So is taking a 3rd shot at a target without "calling" it an ego thing for advanced shooters?I'm a IPSC/USPSA Newbie. I agree that I'd take a third at a shot on the move, if it wouldn't cost me more time anyway, and since I shoot production, if I know there's only one or two more in the mag, and I'm reloading anyway... No sense dropping 3-4 rounds in the dirt if you can put another down range. They score the best two whether you "call" it or not... it's not hits per shot fired, its hit per second. Am I wrong? I guess it's like an experienced basketball player calling "glass" if he's going to bank in a jumper... LOL Jeff I think you need to do some more reading here Jeff... they aren't bragging about shooting a no=look shot here. What they are saying is they would only shoot another shot at the target if the could not tell (call) one of the first two shots. Since you score is hits/time you don't want to take any more time that you have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I try to use patience and call good shots to begin with if it is an extremely difficult shot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Being a rank amateur and shooting production, I try to follow the advise I am given by the best shooter I routinely squad with. He suggested that at my level the only target where it is worth planning on three shots is a disappearing swinger. Other than that, just shoot slow enough to get all A's. I have to admit, it is nice to shoot a stage clean, even if I am slower than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 A called pair beats three hopers every day. I never plan on three shots, I have found doing stuff like that and doubling poppers is a good way to allow yourself (subconsciously) to take some bad shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf219 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I have found doing stuff like that and doubling poppers is a good way to allow yourself (subconsciously) to take some bad shots. I completly agree, to add further, this has attributed to my worst habit. Lack of self confidence which is worse than forgetting your plan through the middle of a COF. My ability proved this to my self image at this years nationals. Car stage, partail targets at 30 yards, put three hits on each target, went down range to verify my CALLED hits, all three hits right were I called them within a two inch group. I remembering saying something like when will you just let go and be reassured in your ability to perform as you normally would. Its like me to make a tough shot, its like me to read my sights quickly, its like me to shoot well, fast, accurately and confidently on every stage every shot. Thanks Todd I needed to recharge some reasons in my self confidence to go back and do some more dry fire. Squinty, Daryll, H! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I'm wanting to add some input here. I need to be careful though, as it seems we have at least 3 different things being talked about. - Calling a shot = Knowing where the bullet will impact, based on reading the sights/gun during the shot process (you should know where the bullet will hit before it gets there). It doesn't mean hitting the target or missing...that isn't "calling". Calling tells us what is going on...it is feedback. It's not ability, success or failure. - Making the shot = Getting the tube on target (barrel), keeping it there while working the trigger control...and following through. Our opening poster is relating a story from a buddy, that saw what he relayed to us here. Frankly, it sounds a bit suspect...or misinterpreted...to me. What we'd need to here is a first hand account of the actual setup and why the actual shooter did what he/she did. - I will do "make-up" shots when I didn't call a good hit on a previous shot. That isn't an insurance shot. The closest that I come to what I'd call an insurance shot is doubling steel targets that I shoot on the move. Even then, there is some added aspect to the rational. It's not just shoot two in case I miss. The gun bounces some when we have it extended and take a step...when our foot hits the ground. (We should strive to minimize that, of course.) That bounce...which might take you off target...is never more than one shot in duration. So, taking two shots...if I happen to break a shot while my foot is hitting too hard...I'll get the hit on the other shot. I can also cheat a bit on my visual patience and my follow through. I won't have to MAKE either of those too perfect. I can accept a bit of slop there...as long as I am still reading the sights and calling the shot (to see the results). And, shooting minor...even though I'm not really shooting mouse fart loads...two hits on poppers helps ensure that a heavy set, or edge hit popper, will go down. Here is an example of me taking 2 shots per popper. I took these poppers at 15-18y or so, on the move. I had allowed for 2 shots each (for a total of 6), but ended up only firing 5...likely due to calling a very clean shot on one of the poppers. Oh...as an added bonus...at the very end of that video... While prone, I take a third shot at the paper target (being shot thru the low port in the far wall). I called a shot on that target a bit high and thought I might have clipped port/wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I have found doing stuff like that and doubling poppers is a good way to allow yourself (subconsciously) to take some bad shots. Very good point. Shot selection and execution has to come first. The shooter needs to own the shooting...stone cold. If a shooter is throwing extra shots to cover up for poor shooting, then they need to go back to the fundamentals and get them DOWN. For sure. (Good stuff, Todd ) ...all three hits right were I called them within a two inch group. I remembering saying something like when will you just let go and be reassured in your ability to perform as you normally would. Its like me to make a tough shot, its like me to read my sights quickly, its like me to shoot well, fast, accurately and confidently on every stage every shot. Thanks Todd I needed to recharge some reasons in my self confidence to go back and do some more dry fire. Squinty, Daryll, H! Very nice mindset, Daryll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronEqualizer Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 (edited) This is not the shooter/shooters we were discussing but this is the same match and I think a M class shooter doing the same thing. Here is a post on another thread of the video link. VIDEO LINK AL Edited December 21, 2008 by IronEqualizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Haven't read all the replies, but I don't see any really good shooter doing that unless they called one of their shots as marginal or definitely bad. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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