Mo Hepworth Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Just got this from my local dealer. I have been using the tanfoglio line the last year and a half,..but always liked the reliability,..no fuss of the HK USP with match trigger I used in production. The P30-L is a USP with major grip improvements. The slide now has forward and rear cocking serrations,..the mag release is much easier to use,..and the grip is made so the user can get a higher grip on the gun. Better bore axis relationship. THe DA is still heavy,..but much smoother,..the SA breaks very clean,..but long take up and reset. I would say the reset is similiar to my CZ shadow. The SA on my Tanfoglio stock2 reset is much shorter,..and has a lighter DA trigger pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) apparently the April 09 issue of Guns and Weapons has a write up on this...FYI. Pretty flat shooting,..not typical of the USP series,...but the addition of the buffer helps tame the recoil and it sits much lower in the hand than the USP series did. Measured the DA trigger reach,..and my CZ nor the Stock 2 has even close to such a short reach. Hard to explain what they did to improve the DA reach.. Edited January 9, 2009 by Mo Hepworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safenate Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 apparently the April 09 issue of Guns and Weapons has a write up on this...FYI. Pretty flat shooting,..not typical of the USP series,...but the addition of the buffer helps tame the recoil and it sits much lower in the hand than the USP series did.Measured the DA trigger reach,..and my CZ nor the Stock 2 has even close to such a short reach. Hard to explain what they did to improve the DA reach.. I just bought a P2000 in 40, in the event I get hired to USBP. I've been looking to replace my current Glock lineup for a similar HK lineup and found the P30L. It is supposedly just being released in LEM (light DAO), as we speak. It could make a fun L, L10, or Production setup that is close enough to the duty P2000. I also like that there is a full size HK45 in LEM available for big bullets, that is similar to the P2000 & P30L, with LEM and similar feel. Please let us know what you think of it compared to your CZ, I love the feel of the CZs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I might have to make my grip actually larger on the P30-L,...as I find grip is almost too small with the small grips on it. I think one would notice your draw and gun movement from target to target would actually be a little quicker,...but distance shots may be slightly advantageous to the heavier Sp01 or Stock/stock2. Magwell on both CZ type production pistols are friendlier for mag changes,..as the P30-L has the same mag well opening than the previous P2000/USP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I really like the HK P30/HK45 pistols; I think they are a vast improvement over the USP line. I think they did pretty well on the execution of these pistols; although when I look at them, as a gunsmith, I tend to see what can be improved rather than what HK did well. For the most part, the P30 pistols that I have handled had an unnecessarily heavy and or gritty DA, a mushy SA and a horrendously long reset. These are all typical features of most HK pistols that I have handled so I didn't think it really detracted from the quality of the overall design. With a good trigger job DA and SA can be lightened, smoothed and made crisper respectively. On the P30 design, that hard part is shortening the reset; we are almost done developing a method to achieve that goal but it isn't easy. While the USP is pretty easy to get a wicked short reset with some work, the P30/HK45 design is harder to work with. One thing I have noticed is that on most P30 guns with really high round counts or thousands and thousands of dry fire cycles the triggers are really smooth as well as a little lighter; nearly as smooth as you can get with a pretty intensive trigger job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safenate Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Rln, I have a USPF 45 with 20k rounds thru it and people are impressed with how clean that trigger is. The only work I did was cutting a few coils on spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Rln,I have a USPF 45 with 20k rounds thru it and people are impressed with how clean that trigger is. The only work I did was cutting a few coils on spring. Doesn't suprise me in the slightest, any handgun with 20K through it should feel much better than stock, especially any HK... Now if you want a short reset, that doesn't happen from dry/live firing unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 It is supposedly just being released in LEM (light DAO), as we speak. It could make a fun L, L10, or Production setup that is close enough to the duty P2000. As of this moment, the LEM is NOT allowed in USPSA Production. I've had a recent email thread about this with John Amidon. He informed me that he will be taking this issue up at the next board meeting. Recently, I too have become very fond of HKs (currently have a USPc with LEM). I've been considering the P30L, but haven't since I haven't been able to find any spare magazines for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safenate Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Bucky, Interesting. I won't be give up my G34 until this job materializes. THEN, I would be happy to try on a P30L (LEM) and hope it is Production approved by then. Also hear HKs are now being made in US, FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP972 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) As of this moment, the LEM is NOT allowed in USPSA Production. I've had a recent email thread about this with John Amidon. He informed me that he will be taking this issue up at the next board meeting. Can you forward contact information for anyone in a position to do something about this; or at least explain it to me? I would like to know the reasoning WHY the LEM is disallowed. Its a service pistol, for Pete's sake. As it stands now, I must shoot both my USP Compact .45 and HK45, both LEM-equipped, in Limited 10. Annoying, but not a deal-breaker. I'm certainly no threat to win. But this "decision" makes no sense... . Edited March 9, 2009 by LSP972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjmay Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 It is supposedly just being released in LEM (light DAO), as we speak. It could make a fun L, L10, or Production setup that is close enough to the duty P2000. As of this moment, the LEM is NOT allowed in USPSA Production. I've had a recent email thread about this with John Amidon. He informed me that he will be taking this issue up at the next board meeting. Recently, I too have become very fond of HKs (currently have a USPc with LEM). I've been considering the P30L, but haven't since I haven't been able to find any spare magazines for sale. Looks like you can get some here. Good Price too! www.calssportingarmory.com/HK_234316_P30_9mm_15_Round_Magazine_p/mghk234316.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjmay Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I'm glad to see other people talking about using HK's in USPSA competition. I started playing the game late last year and have been using my P30 and then my new P30L in production class since I started. Everyone tells me that HK is not the gun to use but I have shot in 6 matches without one gun failure. Can't say that about most people I see out there. The trigger is a drawback for speed due to the long reset and the heavy DA pull but it is getting better over time as discussed. It's not what's keeping me from being first I assure you I have a USP Combat Comp with the LEM trigger I want to try in Limited but can't find a cheap Kydex holster that accommodates the "HIGH" Novak fiber optic front sight. CR Speed makes one for the HK but it is $180.00. Any other holster suggestions would be appreciated. Great guns those HK's....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I used a BladeTech when I was shooting my USPs in L10 FY42385 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 I would suggest a bladetech DOH or belt holster....I used one that was made for the USP. You may have to cut a little off the bottom for the belt holster. I saw a Blackhawk designed for the p2000 work for the P30.....But doubt the P30-L works with it. I have only used my P30-L in one match,...shot very flat. You can get the reduced power hammer spring for it now;- I was talking to a shooter from South Carolina who was using one with great success as it was still reliable for primer strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjmay Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I would suggest a bladetech DOH or belt holster....I used one that was made for the USP. You may have to cut a little off the bottom for the belt holster. I saw a Blackhawk designed for the p2000 work for the P30.....But doubt the P30-L works with it. I have only used my P30-L in one match,...shot very flat. You can get the reduced power hammer spring for it now;- I was talking to a shooter from South Carolina who was using one with great success as it was still reliable for primer strikes. Thanks for the feedback. BTW, Blaclhawk makes a serpa holster specifically for the P30 and the P30L works fine with it but sticks out the bottom just a little. That's what I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausshooter Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Another HK USP 45 shooter here. Mine's actually my duty weapon and I run it in limited 10 so I can use major PF. I've been able to keep up with other folks in my class pretty well, I really don't see the gun as a big limiting factor. I kind of wish there was a jet funnel option, but I guess I'll just practice hitting my reloads better. One thing I have done is replace the HK barrel with a Jarvis standard rifling one so that I can shoot the coated precision bullets. I was finding the coating was coming off in the polygonal barrels a bit too much for my taste. Some of that may also have been lead from when I wasn't belling my cases quite enough. If ya'll are running the LEM triggers, check out the 5.5# combat competition style. It replaces the drop safety spring, trigger return spring, and flat spring. Makes a huge difference - 1.5# of takeup goes quick and then a nice firm 4# break. Add a good 10-20k rounds on the gun and you've got a smooth shooter. My biggest problem now is I'm killing magazines - those 10 rounders suck! I am running the Ready Tactical mag pouches http://www.skdtac.com/index.asp?PageAction...mp;Category=412 and a bladetech OWB for a holster. My buddy who's also a B class limited guy and I were dry firing the other day and we were both hitting around .85 one shot on target out of the holster, so you don't necessarily need speed gear to compete. I recently tried out some of the novak fiber optic sights on my 45 and it isn't work out well. I'm hitting about 24" low at 50 yards - ouch! I think I need a different height rear sight. Anyone made master with a USP yet?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 FWIW... Grayguns.com has just announced that they have finalized a short reset for the LEM triggers... I'm not associated with them just have my ear to the ground... http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430...35/m/2861065651 <<for more info... I'm not saying it is legal for comp. ( because I have no idea) but for those of you who like the platform for "other" uses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Another HK USP 45 shooter here. Mine's actually my duty weapon and I run it in limited 10 so I can use major PF. I've been able to keep up with other folks in my class pretty well, I really don't see the gun as a big limiting factor. I kind of wish there was a jet funnel option, but I guess I'll just practice hitting my reloads better. One thing I have done is replace the HK barrel with a Jarvis standard rifling one so that I can shoot the coated precision bullets. I was finding the coating was coming off in the polygonal barrels a bit too much for my taste. Some of that may also have been lead from when I wasn't belling my cases quite enough. If ya'll are running the LEM triggers, check out the 5.5# combat competition style. It replaces the drop safety spring, trigger return spring, and flat spring. Makes a huge difference - 1.5# of takeup goes quick and then a nice firm 4# break. Add a good 10-20k rounds on the gun and you've got a smooth shooter. My biggest problem now is I'm killing magazines - those 10 rounders suck! I am running the Ready Tactical mag pouches http://www.skdtac.com/index.asp?PageAction...mp;Category=412 and a bladetech OWB for a holster. My buddy who's also a B class limited guy and I were dry firing the other day and we were both hitting around .85 one shot on target out of the holster, so you don't necessarily need speed gear to compete. I recently tried out some of the novak fiber optic sights on my 45 and it isn't work out well. I'm hitting about 24" low at 50 yards - ouch! I think I need a different height rear sight. Anyone made master with a USP yet?? I made B in production about 3 years ago with my stainless 9mm USP in IPSC. Not sure what I am now,..but maybe an A to low M? After this season I hope to shoot my P30-L a little more,..I think it is very flat shooting,..and I heard that a match trigger was coming out (probably a lighter hammer spring and trigger return spring.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausshooter Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 FWIW...Grayguns.com has just announced that they have finalized a short reset for the LEM triggers... I'm not associated with them just have my ear to the ground... http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430...35/m/2861065651 <<for more info... I'm not saying it is legal for comp. ( because I have no idea) but for those of you who like the platform for "other" uses Very interesting. I'll have to give them a call and see what that's about. I really wish I could play with one before I sent mine off. Mine have so many rounds, the only thing that really is desireable is to shorten the reset, which I guess is what they're addressing. $300 though ... ouch. FWIW, I believe this would be legal in Limited/L10.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausshooter Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I made B in production about 3 years ago with my stainless 9mm USP in IPSC. Not sure what I am now,..but maybe an A to low M? After this season I hope to shoot my P30-L a little more,..I think it is very flat shooting,..and I heard that a match trigger was coming out (probably a lighter hammer spring and trigger return spring.) Cool! You can indeed call the factory, I believe there should be trigger parts out. Most of the match parts are involving a different mainspring, hammer spring, trigger reset spring, and flat spring. Of course the hammer and trigger are replaced as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) FWIW...Grayguns.com has just announced that they have finalized a short reset for the LEM triggers... I'm not associated with them just have my ear to the ground... http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430...35/m/2861065651 <<for more info... I'm not saying it is legal for comp. ( because I have no idea) but for those of you who like the platform for "other" uses Very interesting. I'll have to give them a call and see what that's about. I really wish I could play with one before I sent mine off. Mine have so many rounds, the only thing that really is desireable is to shorten the reset, which I guess is what they're addressing. $300 though ... ouch. FWIW, I believe this would be legal in Limited/L10.. I work for Grayguns and thought I would give a bit of an explanation here. I am not trying to advertise, just responding to the comment "$300 though... ouch". That seems to be a very common response to our HK competition work (interestingly enough, we never hear that about our Sig work, they are the same prices). I guess HK guys just know they already spent double the value of what a plastic gun should be, so it hurts to pay that much more Just kidding, don't kill me (I couldn't resist) As far as I have seen, most smiths working on HK guns offer trigger jobs for around $55-$80. This is fine if it is what you want and can afford, but you have to understand what you are getting. These types of jobs usually entail a mainspring change for a lighter spring, cleanup of the SA notch, and possibly a little buffing/polishing on a few other surfaces if you are lucky. Few of these people could afford to be in business if they spent more than 45 min to 1 hour per gun. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this type of work, it is just not at all what we offer and I sometimes think that we get thrown in the same category because people feel that not much more that can be done on the HK guns (if that were all we did, then yes, our prices would be outrageous). Our HK competition trigger jobs can take anywhere from 5-8 hours per gun (depending on how rough they are when we start, some can even take more). If you figure that up as an hourly rate, our price is cheap for any type of service industry. We literally work on and improve every removable metal part in the gun. We use a little different approach in that we work for a desired end result without any concern for how long it take to get there with each gun. The end result is an extremely smooth and consistent DA (no stacking, chatter, grittiness, etc), a smooth crisp SA (with more or less creep as desired), and we are now offering a safe, mechanical reduction in net reset travel of up 50% or more (every gun comes out a little different). Of course, full feed and reliability work is always included and our lifetime guarantee is always in effect. It is hard to describe the end result in words, the people we have let handle the guns when they are finished usually just say WOW repeatedly, spend 1/2 an hour dry firing, say something along the lines of "I never thought an HK could feel like that"; and then we have to wrestle the gun from their hands and pat them down when they leave the shop. (OK, maybe that was only a couple guys but it was still funny to see their faces) We can do short reset work on all USP/P30/HK45 in either DA/SA or LEM. The USP Combat Competition LEM I just finished had so short of a reset it literally felt like shooting a 1911, I wish I had timed the reduction in splits, I will on the next one we get in. I would also like to point out that our work never involves removing factory safety systems, we do not remove or disable the firing pin block safety to achieve a short reset, we have a proprietary mechanical modification we developed to do that. As for experience, Bruce Gray (the boss) has been working on HK pistols for probably as long as I have been alive. He was a factory sponsored shooter on the HK team for several years, and actually redesigned some parts to fix a problem for a certain HK pistol that ended up being incorporated in their production design, basically he knows what he is doing. I understand the big pucker factor people feel when they see the prices, I hope this helps explain some of the why and how of the trigger work and pricing. Mods, if any of this is out of line just let me know and it will disappear. I am just trying to preempt a lot of the general confusion/mis-information we have seen on a couple other forums regarding our work. Edited March 17, 2009 by Rln_21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 I think you will start getting more work requests for the P30/ P30-L and HK45,...I would love to get the reset on my P30-L down to a match trigger reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta Lover Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 $300 for a trigger job, a good one is worth the money if it helps you win. I'm willing to spend the dough if I think I gain an actual advantage The best investment for improving your shooting is practice. After that money shoud not stand in the way of actually gaining an advantage. If $300 covers the trigger/action/reliability work in total its a deal. I dont know what you can do to make an HK more reliable but like I said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safenate Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 The way I see it: even with a $300 trigger job on a $900 an HK pistol is still less expensive then most 1911's and more reliable. I can't wait to find out about this potential job and converting from Glocks to LEM HKs. Oh, come on BI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahrnage Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The P30L LEM wasn't availible when I purchased so I'm currently competing with a DA/SA P30 that was worked on by Gray Guns (see link to sigforum in a previous post) and I'm really happy with it. When I talked to Bruce regarding my DA/SA trigger job he said that he had also done a LEM that came out amazing and had good things to say about it. So now I"m curious and would like to get a P30L LEM worked over by Gray Guns to use in USPSA...not that my P30 doesn't work but the longer sight radius and LEM trigger sounds like it could be the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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