JimmyZip Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Years ago I was taught Weaver stance. It was the way I shot for nine years of competing in IPSC or IPSC style matches. Fast-forward to 06 and reading Brian's book and shooting some steel matches, I joined USPSA (07) and started dry-fire. After shooting some matches I befriended a local top shooter and started practicing with him. He noticed my Weaver stance. I said that I was trying to work on switching to isoceles but the Weaver just kept coming back. It is getting frustrating to deal with as even if I start a praactice session without it, as I get tired I seem to revert back to Weaver. I notice it especially after a reload. At that point as I remount the gun, there it is Weaver stance again. And so my question. Should I just live with it? Should I just keep working on it? Are there any top shooters that use it? Will it hinder me at some point in my advancement? Kind of at a loss at this point as to what to do. Your advice would be greatly apreciated. JZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 I weaver shot for years as all my handgun shooting was heavy recoiling single action revolvers. I got professional training but would still do like you are now. Revert to weaver under stress. Dont worry just keep practicing presentations. You dont even need a gun. Just practice the hand and body movements anytime you get a chance. Eventually you will develop muscle memory. Standard weaver works great for slow precision fire of magnum revolvers from a stationary position. Which makes since wasnt Weaver the last name of a slow precision fire magnum revolver instructor ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 You need to change it. The reason you keep reverting to your old stance is that you haven't really changed it in your head. It's all in your head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 GM Eddie Rhoades still uses Weaver, and Jack Weaver WAS NOT a slow fire Magnum shooter. He was one of the founding fathers of the modern technique of the pistol along wiht Jeff Cooper, Thell Reed, Ray Chapman, Eldon Carl. He was one of the very first "action shooters to use both hands and aim! Many of the old guys were hip shooting back then untill Jack came along and wax their a$$. KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 As Matt said. Change is in your mind. See yourself in the new stance. What you have now is grooved in. Instead of fighting the groove...just make a whole new groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted November 29, 2008 Author Share Posted November 29, 2008 (edited) Spent a few hours hitting it hard today at the range. I noticed that the Weaver is going slowly. I thought about what Matt said, and before I started every rep of every drill, I drew slowly or mounted the gun slowly(from table) and tried to "feel" the isoceles stance. This opened a whole new can of worms as now my grip feels different. I was running the "X" as I call it. I take the bay with the plate rack and scratch a big X in the sand. I practice movement forwards and backwards from left to right in an hourglass pattern reloading on each leg and resetting the plates after each leg. The iso is working it's way in, but my grip is changing too. MAJOR THREAD DRIFT!! What I have noticed is this whole thing is teaching me to read my sights so much better. I can now tell when the shot breaks if it's going to be a good one or a bad one. I can also see that at certain distances I can be comfortable with different sight alignment. When they are tighter shots or farther shots, I have to wait a little longer to break the shot because I need a better sight picture where as if I am within 15 yds, I can almost anticipate where the shot will break and start sqeezing the shot off as the blade is falling into the notch. The stange thing about this is if I focus on my grip and stance, I seem to shoot better than if I consciously try and think about sight alignment. Wierd and a major thread drift, but this is what was going on as I was focusing on the stance/grip today. Since I am drifting I thought I would throw this out there. If you are tired at the end of a practice session, bring out your other favorite blaster. I shot my SOCOM afterward and I find shooting a rifle the most relaxing and soulful form of shooting. Its like pistol shooting on Valium. Same principles, just that added range and sight radius make it feel so close to the heart. Making that 250 gong sing with those .308s man that is the way to end the day at the range. END OF DRIFT So I guess I will work on it by feel as much as the head thing and make it mine. Thanks you guys, guess that is something to study right now. Edited November 29, 2008 by JimmyZip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 What I have noticed is this whole thing is teaching me to read my sights so much better. The strange thing about this is if I focus on my grip and stance, I seem to shoot better than if I consciously try and think about sight alignment. So I guess I will work on it by feel as much as the head thing and make it mine. Beyond Weaver...or any stance... You were experiencing your shooting, not judging it and trying to make a certain thing happen. That is the ticket. Get interested in what is actually going on. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Since I am drifting I thought I would throw this out there. If you are tired at the end of a practice session, bring out your other favorite blaster. I shot my SOCOM afterward and I find shooting a rifle the most relaxing and soulful form of shooting. Its like pistol shooting on Valium. Same principles, just that added range and sight radius make it feel so close to the heart. Making that 250 gong sing with those .308s man that is the way to end the day at the range. A good rule of thumb is, at the end of every practice session, always do something you find fun. End on an up note. For me, that's to take however many rounds I have left, start close to the target and, taking a step back with every success, see how far away from the target I can do a sub-second draw and center hit. Answer thus far: seven yards. I'm not saying I couldn't do it further away....I just keep running out of ammo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Stick with it Jimmy. Ingraining a major change all the way into everything your do requires a lot of dry fire and range practice and match time, especially after shooting differently for 9 years! In the end you'll probably find you'll easily shoot more consistently, naturally. When I was switching to a neutral platform - it took months of heavy dry fire, range practice, and match time before, in a match, I would actually come up neutral after a mag change or running all over the range through a field course. But the time spent was well worth it. And it's cool, even just because you're seeing and learning new things. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 Thanks Brian, your input is greatly appreciated. Just got done with another dry fire session. It is going slowly, but it is going. I have discovered that feeling the grip is the key to a good grip. The grip is what is taking the Weaver away. The 70%-30% is starting to feel right and I will range practice tomorrow. I have a classifier match to shoot on the 14th and am excited to try out all this stuff. I am really noticing that the grip is improving my shooting and that it is easier to remount the gun with the proper thumbs-forward rather than my old grip after a mag change. Just strange, and cool too. I am just not very patient though. I can't stop dryfiring when I feel things happening. I just want to feel that proper grip until I know that it is ingrained. It is starting to drive the wife crazy! Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I can't stop dryfiring when I feel things happening. This is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I can't stop dryfiring when I feel things happening. This is a good thing. YES. I'd often get in a dry-firing groove - and keep it going for what felt like forever. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 When I was first learning to shoot - and I mean my first experiences handling and training with guns, period - my absolute first priority was ingraining trigger finger discipline. I would strip myself down to nothing but a pair of cutoff shorts (for the belt loops to thread the gunbelt through, natch); I wanted the minimum amount of necessary clothing on my body, because I knew that by the time I was done dry firing, hours later, I'd be drenched in sweat. I'd rather be drenched in sweat, period, than drenched in sweat and covered with cold, clammy cloth, too. This was the time when I worked on "finger off the trigger while reholstering; finger off the trigger as soon as you're done shooting...." All the safety stuff that you absolutely need to have down pat if you carry a gun. Hours after hour. Hundreds and thousands of reps of nothing but drawing and reholstering. Day after day. Some long dry fire practice sessions there, but I've never regretted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted December 15, 2008 Author Share Posted December 15, 2008 Well this past weekend I shot an all-classifier match and I think I have exorcised the demons of Jack Weaver. At no time on any course of fire did I return to Weaver stance. My subsequent dryfire this morning had no Weaver, and even shooting New El Presidente, after the reload there was no Weaver. So I took the advice of many (dryfire, dryfire, dryfire) and the result has been good. Thanks to all for their encouragement and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Well this past weekend I shot an all-classifier match and I think I have exorcised the demons of Jack Weaver. At no time on any course of fire did I return to Weaver stance. My subsequent dryfire this morning had no Weaver, and even shooting New El Presidente, after the reload there was no Weaver. So I took the advice of many (dryfire, dryfire, dryfire) and the result has been good. Thanks to all for their encouragement and help. Nice work! be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Well this past weekend I shot an all-classifier match and I think I have exorcised the demons of Jack Weaver. At no time on any course of fire did I return to Weaver stance. My subsequent dryfire this morning had no Weaver, and even shooting New El Presidente, after the reload there was no Weaver. So I took the advice of many (dryfire, dryfire, dryfire) and the result has been good. Thanks to all for their encouragement and help. Good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Yer welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Well this past weekend I shot an all-classifier match and I think I have exorcised the demons of Jack Weaver. Say what you want, but the practical shooting community owes a huge debt of gratitude to Jack Weaver. If it weren't for his pioneering spririt, we'd all be trying to shoot from the hip with one hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revopop Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Well this past weekend I shot an all-classifier match and I think I have exorcised the demons of Jack Weaver. Say what you want, but the practical shooting community owes a huge debt of gratitude to Jack Weaver. If it weren't for his pioneering spririt, we'd all be trying to shoot from the hip with one hand. But think how cool we'd all look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Say what you want, but the practical shooting community owes a huge debt of gratitude to Jack Weaver. If it weren't for his pioneering spririt, we'd all be trying to shoot from the hip with one hand. True. You have to give Weaver credit: like Robbie and Brian 20 years later, he did what made sense to him, no matter what anyone else said or thought, and redefined the way people fire a handgun. That doesn't mean that shooting techniques haven't improved in the intervening 50-plus years, though. Still, yes, we all owe a lot to Jack Weaver. As the old saying goes, "If I see far, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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