Reshoot?

[Silver_Surfer]

This happen this past Sunday. Should a Shooter get a "Reshoot" if the falling plates he was engaging caused splatter to come back and hit him in the forehead? The NEW plates were set dead on to the shooter and not at an angle at more than the minim distance. The injury was bad enough to almost make him stop. Blood was present and the shooter was able to finish the stage. He did ask for a reshoot but was denied.

[XD Niner]

I can find no rule that would allow a reshoot for an injury. Although this one was caused by splatter from a bullet it is really no different than if the shooter had pulled a hamstring, pinched a finger or incurred any other type of injury that often occurs during a COF. The shooter was able to complete the COF so I can't see any reason to grant a reshoot.

Just out of curiosity what type of bullet was used? My personal experience is that FMJs and lead cast bullets are more likely to splatter or bounce back which is one of the reasons I use JHPs. YMMV.

Edited November 25, 2008 by XD Niner

[Silver_Surfer]

40cal JHP Either Montana Gold or Zero.

[Jman]

Ditto. No rule I know of. A good reason to wear a hat though. Can't remember a match with tunnels were someone didn't forget to duck. Stuff happens.

Jim

[Ron Ankeny]

Why the heck would anyone ask for a reshoot on steel that shoots back?

[Silver_Surfer]

Why the heck would anyone ask for a reshoot on steel that shoots back?

LOL! Your avatar fits you. I'll have to share this, this Sunday.

[JakeMartens]

Shouldn't this apply:

8.6.4 In the event that inadvertent contact from the Range Officer or another

external influence has interfered with the competitor during a course of

fire, the Range Officer may offer the competitor a reshoot of the course

of fire. The competitor must accept or decline the offer prior to seeing

either the time or the score from the initial attempt. However, in the

event that the competitor commits a safety infraction during any such

interference, the provisions of Section 10.3 may still apply.

If you got smacked in the forehead with splatter, hard enough to cause bleeding, I would say that is an external influence and would cause and interference.

[Silver_Surfer]

Shouldn't this apply:

8.6.4 In the event that inadvertent contact from the Range Officer or another

external influence has interfered with the competitor during a course of

fire, the Range Officer may offer the competitor a reshoot of the course

of fire. The competitor must accept or decline the offer prior to seeing

either the time or the score from the initial attempt. However, in the

event that the competitor commits a safety infraction during any such

interference, the provisions of Section 10.3 may still apply.

If you got smacked in the forehead with splatter, hard enough to cause bleeding, I would say that is an external influence and would cause and interference.

OK, this would have worked if the shooter did'nt follow the RO & score keeper around and THEN ask for reshoot. Maybe one should have treated this like a P-Popper that failed to fall and stop?

[Flexmoney]

Good point, Jake.

I'd think this one might fall under the judgment ("may offer") of the RO. The RO would need to be on the ball, and offer up the reshoot immediately after clearing the stage and before scoring is started.

[LPatterson]

The injury was bad enough to almost make him stop.

The key word is almost, if it had been severe enough to hamper his performance then he should have stopped and requested assistance then a reshoot.

[Nik Habicht]

Shouldn't this apply:

8.6.4 In the event that inadvertent contact from the Range Officer or another

external influence has interfered with the competitor during a course of

fire, the Range Officer may offer the competitor a reshoot of the course

of fire. The competitor must accept or decline the offer prior to seeing

either the time or the score from the initial attempt. However, in the

event that the competitor commits a safety infraction during any such

interference, the provisions of Section 10.3 may still apply.

If you got smacked in the forehead with splatter, hard enough to cause bleeding, I would say that is an external influence and would cause and interference.

That's creative --- but I'd still have to say no. I'm thinking the external influences thing has to be something not in any way initiated by the shooter, i.e. wind knocking over a wall, dropping a popper, a deer running through the stage, etc.

From the original description it sounds more likely that the shooter hit the plate support (rack, post, stand?) than that he hit the plate; following the injury he finished the stage....

[JKSNIPER]

Maybe Im in the minority here but I have to disagree.

If the cut on this guys head was enough to make him bleed then its obvious that he was externally influenced by something outside his control and therefore (IMHO) the RO should offer him a reshoot.

I know its not REQUIRED to offer the reshoot ( It should be) but it seems the proper thing to do.

Also if this guy was visibly struck to the point where the RO noticed it shouldn't the RO stop the shooter due to a potentially hazardous condition ?

JK

[kmca]

Wouldn't it be a range equipment failure, since the targets aren't designed to "shoot back"?

[George Jones]

I don't think you can "cookie cutter" this one. It all depends on the circumstance at the moment.

Asking for a reshoot after the stage is done and the shooter has seen his time and targets suggests that the event did not rise to interference.

IF the RO suspects the shooter has been injured and is in need of treatment (or could be further injured), the RO should call STOP immediately. It's all about safety.

I don't particularly think we need to involve "other external influence". If it's bad enough to cause actual interference, I suggest the safety concern trumps everything else.

IMO, a Range Officer who stops the action for a suspected safety concern is never wrong.

[George Jones]

OK, this would have worked if the shooter did'nt follow the RO & score keeper around and THEN ask for reshoot. Maybe one should have treated this like a P-Popper that failed to fall and stop?

Hmmmm.......

I fail to understand the relashionship.

There is no rule which authorizes the RO to stop the action when a PP fails to fall. A calibration challenge (by the shooter, after he's finished the stage) is the only legitimate process.

[JThompson]

OK, this would have worked if the shooter did'nt follow the RO & score keeper around and THEN ask for reshoot. Maybe one should have treated this like a P-Popper that failed to fall and stop?

Hmmmm.......

I fail to understand the relashionship.

There is no rule which authorizes the RO to stop the action when a PP fails to fall. A calibration challenge (by the shooter, after he's finished the stage) is the only legitimate process.

And since plates can't be calibrated it's a range failure or naught.

To the point here, if the guy would have stopped I would have granted a reshoot. I don't feel I can grant one after the fact. I know I've taken a couple nasty frags and it does screw up your stage.

Edited November 26, 2008 by JThompson

[BSeevers]

I think this might apply. Warning: bad language but funny.

[zhunter]

I am no expert, but I think he should get a reshoot

[Silver_Surfer]

I don't think you can "cookie cutter" this one. It all depends on the circumstance at the moment.

Asking for a reshoot after the stage is done and the shooter has seen his time and targets suggests that the event did not rise to interference.

IF the RO suspects the shooter has been injured and is in need of treatment (or could be further injured), the RO should call STOP immediately. It's all about safety.

I don't particularly think we need to involve "other external influence". If it's bad enough to cause actual interference, I suggest the safety concern trumps everything else.

IMO, a Range Officer who stops the action for a suspected safety concern is never wrong.

Agreed! This is a hard one to judge. We were following the shooter(Behind him!) seen him flinch and rub at his forehead and continued the COF. The shooter never turned around so we could see what happen. After the, "IF Finished Unload & Show Clear" we noticed his head was bleeding. I dont think he even knew he was bleeding.

[Silver_Surfer]

OK, this would have worked if the shooter did'nt follow the RO & score keeper around and THEN ask for reshoot. Maybe one should have treated this like a P-Popper that failed to fall and stop?

Hmmmm.......

I fail to understand the relashionship.

There is no rule which authorizes the RO to stop the action when a PP fails to fall. A calibration challenge (by the shooter, after he's finished the stage) is the only legitimate process.

I meant the shooter stopped himself.

[Silver_Surfer]

I think this might apply. Warning: bad language but funny.

I thought this was going to be a shooting vid.

[George Jones]

OK, this would have worked if the shooter did'nt follow the RO & score keeper around and THEN ask for reshoot. Maybe one should have treated this like a P-Popper that failed to fall and stop?

Hmmmm.......

I fail to understand the relashionship.

There is no rule which authorizes the RO to stop the action when a PP fails to fall. A calibration challenge (by the shooter, after he's finished the stage) is the only legitimate process.

I meant the shooter stopped himself.

Kinda OT for the thread, but if he stops himself before finishing the stage he would take a big chance of eating a bunch of penalties if that popper falls on calibration. Not a good idea.

[JThompson]

OK, this would have worked if the shooter did'nt follow the RO & score keeper around and THEN ask for reshoot. Maybe one should have treated this like a P-Popper that failed to fall and stop?

Hmmmm.......

I fail to understand the relashionship.

There is no rule which authorizes the RO to stop the action when a PP fails to fall. A calibration challenge (by the shooter, after he's finished the stage) is the only legitimate process.

I meant the shooter stopped himself.

Kinda OT for the thread, but if he stops himself before finishing the stage he would take a big chance of eating a bunch of penalties if that popper falls on calibration. Not a good idea.

It was a steel plate.... if it was hit it was a range failure if it didn't fall, but that wasn't stated here, only that he got tagged.

Sorry George... didn't see the reference to the popper above...

Edited November 27, 2008 by JThompson

[Silver_Surfer]

OK, this would have worked if the shooter did'nt follow the RO & score keeper around and THEN ask for reshoot. Maybe one should have treated this like a P-Popper that failed to fall and stop?

Hmmmm.......

I fail to understand the relashionship.

There is no rule which authorizes the RO to stop the action when a PP fails to fall. A calibration challenge (by the shooter, after he's finished the stage) is the only legitimate process.

I meant the shooter stopped himself.

Kinda OT for the thread, but if he stops himself before finishing the stage he would take a big chance of eating a bunch of penalties if that popper falls on calibration. Not a good idea.

It was a steel plate.... if it was hit it was a range failure if it didn't fall, but that wasn't stated here, only that he got tagged.

Sorry George... didn't see the reference to the popper above...

The plate did fall. The call would have been easier if it did'nt.

[38supPat]

Lol..this will probably get me in trouble but this is Practical shooting, if you can't take a bullet and come up shooting, it might be time to take up bullseye or knitting or something...