Nordic 10/22 Chasis

[pac1911]

Helo all-

I am considering the purchase of a Nordic 10/22 conversion. With out a doubt, this is a cool product, but I am wondering what your opinion is on a particular topic.

How well do you feel practice with a Nordic modified 10/22 will transfer to shooting with the AR15 platform. Lets assume for this discussion that all options such as sights, stocks etc are identical.

Why is this a good/bad training tool?

What can you do to make it as effective as possible?

What other tools should be considered as an alternative and why?

Thanks for the input.

pc

[Anon]

Too expensive.

You can set up a 10/22 for much less, if you just want to have the same ergonomics, but the weight/controls are significantly different than and AR. Either way, you won't be able to practice releasing the safety, or mag changes.

A dedicated .22LR upper is a better choice, and less expensive.

A .22LR conversion kit for your upper is a very inexpensive choice, and lets you use all the same optics/etc. I love mine!

IMO, the Nordic is a toy that lets you hang standard AR goodies off a 10/22. It's nothing more than a cool-looking threaded adapter. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!).

Edited November 24, 2008 by Anon

[bigbrowndog]

The Nordic unit works very well as an inexpensive training toy/tool. I have used the regular 10/22 with AR sights on it for practice and while it does work well, it is not the same feel of the AR by a longshot, granted the Nordic isn't perfect in matching the weight or recoil but it is closer and can be made much closer with proper positioning of weights inside the stock and using a steel barrel to match AR barrel weight.

I used the regular 10/22 for offhand and precision position shooting not hosing, for these purposes the Nordic does a better job.

Trapr

[busyhawk]

I love my Nordic conversion. It is not the cheapest thing around but to replicate my AR it is damn close. I love the ergonomics of the conversion but as said before the magazine change and the selector switch is not the best for practice. I really don't need to practice magazine changes with the 22 anyhow, it would be nice but not a deal breaker.

I have no question in my mind that I made the correct choice for my selection...My conversion at a local Tactical rifle match is the "ONLY" 22 conversion that doesn't have malfunctions during most of the courses of fire. Not saying there are not ones out there that don't work but at the range I shoot at they suck to say the least.

Of course the Ruger 10/22 is a rock solid action and what else can be said.

I really like not having to pick up brass, the cost of ammo, not having to clean carbon and just having fun! My plate rack is easy to knock down too!

Until someone else comes out with a better mouse trap I will stick with the Nordic conversion...word is they are working on an AR upper too...maybe someone out there will perfect the upper.

Hope this helps,

Scott Hawkins

AKA Busyhawk

[Beretta Lover]

I have a ciener 22 conversion kit on my 16 in carbine

I was able to make consistent hits on a MGM US popper at 200 yds 2 weeks ago with remington bulk pack 22LR

I dont understand why these are not more popular.

Mine runs great and it is accurate

I think I paid like $140 for it a few years ago

How can the $350 10/22 kit be better than this?

[Chuck Anderson]

I have a ciener 22 conversion kit on my 16 in carbine

I was able to make consistent hits on a MGM US popper at 200 yds 2 weeks ago with remington bulk pack 22LR

I dont understand why these are not more popular.

Mine runs great and it is accurate

I think I paid like $140 for it a few years ago

How can the $350 10/22 kit be better than this?

Because with the 350.00 10/22 you don't end up sludging your .223 bbl and gas tube with grease and lead from dirty .22lr ammo. I'd just as soon leave my expensive match rifle to .223.

[ken hebert]

Could it be said that the Nordic unit is more reliable than a conversion or a dedicated upper due to the damn near bulletproof nature of the 10/22? Also take into consideration aftermarket 10/22 magazines versus AR 22 mags?

The above is a question, not a dig. I am on the cusp of a .22 practice rifle and weighing the pros and cons.

[mike.45]

I love my Nordic for rifle practice out to 50m - reliable, same ergonomics as my .223 and same AR feel. OK the safety and mag reloads are different but I dont feel the need to practice taking the safe off my AR and I think I have only ever done one reload on my AR in the last half dozen 3 gun matches I have shot - gotta love 45 round mags. I do practice AR mag reloads but that is t he bottom of my practice list of to do's.

I also have a Ceiner unit but the 10/22 action is much more reliable IMHO.

[GentlemanJim]

I picked up a used 10/22 for $125.00 and got a couple new mags for 35.00

It shoots perfect ...so I ordered the Nordic set up

Then I built several miniture flash targets that can be shot at close range simulating longer ranges

This works real well for both close speed shooting and position shooting.

Works for me

Jim

[uscbigdawg]

Could it be said that the Nordic unit is more reliable than a conversion or a dedicated upper due to the damn near bulletproof nature of the 10/22? Also take into consideration aftermarket 10/22 magazines versus AR 22 mags?

The above is a question, not a dig. I am on the cusp of a .22 practice rifle and weighing the pros and cons.

And that's why I switched. The point of using a 10/22 is that it isolates the position/transitions, etc. Similarly using a 22 pistol. Frankly, it's just a cheaper way to practice. I use it a ton, but start and finish every practice session with the real guns.

The Nordic's ergonomics are great with the only "downside" is that the trigger pull is different. All in all...between the super reliability of the 10/22 and the speed at which you can load mags, it's easy to get through 500 rounds of practice.

Rich

[StealthyBlagga]

1 - Ciener conversion

PRO: Cheap. Use your current optics. Feels the same as your match rifle (it IS your match rifle). Mags available the same shape/size as GI 30 rounders.

CON: Non-optimal barrel makes for hit-or-miss accuracy. Barrel needs a thorough cleaning after practice sessions. LEAD CAN ACCUMULATE IN YOUR COMP !

2 - Dedicated AR15 upper

PRO: Can be made to feel the same as your match rifle. Mags available the same shape/size as GI 30 rounders. No need for frequent cleaning.

CON: Cost comparable to any new AR upper, or a Nordic 10/22. Needs dedicated optics. Use an A1/A2 flash hider to avoid lead accumulation.

3 - Nordic 10/22

PRO: Can be made to feel similar to your match rifle. No need for cleaning ever .

CON: Cost comparable to a new AR upper. Needs dedicated optics. Manual of arms and magazines are completely different.

Personally, I would go with #1 or #2. If you already have a Ciener conversion kit, and if your practice sessions are under 100yds, you might also consider a hybrid approach: buy a spare 5.56 upper to semi-dedicate to the Ciener kit. You could configure it as a backup for match use, but with an A2 FH to avoid lead accumulation. Use it mostly with the Ciener kit, but its only a good cleaning and re-zero away from being match-ready in the event that your primary upper goes down for any reason. In my experience, non-magazine AR15 function problems originate primarily in the upper, and the easiest way to get back on the firing line is to pull a complete known-good replacement upper out of your range bag. This approach is the closest to having your cake and eating it.

Edited November 24, 2008 by StealthyBlagga

[jobob]

I have a CZ upper I bought a couple years ago. Very accurate, but ALL 5 of my 10 round mags for it have cracked feed lips, though they still seem to function ok. The upper is no longer imported and you can't get mags. I got 3 Black Dog 27 round mags for the CZ, but I can't get them to be reliable in my gun. Bang, clear the jam, bang, clear the jam, etc. So, I've about had it with dedicated uppers, although that would be the preferred way to go.

So, I just ordered the Nordic from Brownell's for my 10/22. I like my 10/22 the way it is though, so may have to look for another one. Bottom line for me is the 10/22 is reliable, or at least as reliable as you can make a 22.

Who makes a good dedicated 22 upper, anyway. DPMS discontinued theirs 2 or three years ago. Supposedly they were going to retool and bring out an improved version. So far haven't seen it. They are so far behind on orders for big guns the 22 project must have taken a back burner.

Edited November 24, 2008 by jobob

[Bronco]

Tried the CZ-22 and it was "ok", ran most of the time, a bit picky about the ammo it liked. Next was the DPMS, didn't run at all so back to DPMS, after return was pretty good would run maybe 90% very accurate. Still have the DPMS but built a Nordic and it runs! Feels close to the match AR with same optic. Like the hi-cap mags for 30 bucks and did I mention it runs.

For transitions and off-hand practice it is hard to beat.

[gose]

I looked around for a practice rifle a while back and settled for a Spike's tactical upper. A bit more expensive than a Nordic or Ciener kit, but it gave me a rifle very similar to my match ARs. With the Vtac handguard, JP trigger and fake can (added for weight), it feels very much like my JPs.

Had some jams during break-in, but the last 2000+ rounds have been shot without a single hickup and I now only run the cheap Federal 525 bulk packs through it.

To me, this was by far the most attractive option.

Edited November 24, 2008 by gose

[benelli2]

Had the Ciener, worked most of the time, sold it, didn't want to worry about fouling up my match rifle

Had dedicated upper but 10 round mags sucked, way to much loading not enough shooting, nice option though if better mags were available

Nordic conversion on my old team challange Clark barreled 10/22, hits on flash targets out to 150 yds, high mag capacity, works great, cheap mags, mainly work transitions and first shots from various barricades and positions as well as precision speed on small closer targets- DEFINATELY has great training value!!!!!!!

next question?

[jobob]

The Spikes looks like a good option, but damn that's a lot to spend for a 22 practice gun! And then put an optic that costs about the same as the upper, well, it's just a bit out of my league. I'm for fairly cheap optics on my practice 22. May not look the same through the scope, but who cares? It's mostly trigger control anyway.

[TRUBL]

When looking at the price of a practice gun....look at the price of ammo!!!

If you don't practice much.....then you probably can't justify the cost of any 22lr weapon for practice.

HOWEVER.....

1000 rounds of .223 ammo ....ave price....$400 to $500 if you buy.

.22 upper.....$600.00...then the cost to make it like your match gun +optics

Nordic AR22 with stuff to make it like your match rifle.....$400 to $600 +optics (considering you have a 10/22 already)

1 hour of practice with .223 ammo (200 rounds?)....$80 to $100

Can you see where I am going with this??

Basically in about 6 to 8 hours of practice time.....you are paying for your training rifle. So with that in mind....go all out!! The beauty of the 10/22 is just like the AR15 platform and the 1911 platform. They can be a work in progress!! You can always add something to it....a new trigger this month, a new barrel next month, a stock down the road, etc., etc.

Now ofcourse, I'd have to also say that the 10/22 is THE most functioning 22lr semi auto EVER made (maybe some debate on that, but I'm pretty close).....and with close to 6 million out there, not to many problem childs. Not so with the Ciener design....hey, if you have 22rf upper that works!! WOO HOO!! you beat the curve, as there are a lot more 22 uppers out that are problem childs than are not.

You'd think I'm saying all this as a shameless plug for the AR22 stock.....nope. You don't have to use the AR22 stock......but if you want worry free, quality range time, the odds are that the 10/22 is more likely going to preform for you alot better than any ciener type designed upper out there. And you can build it any way you want too. But, well, ya know...if you want it to feel like your match gun.....

Edited November 24, 2008 by TRUBL

[uscbigdawg]

Tim,

I love mine and while I was nervous at first about how well the geometry worked out to match an AR (I would have been happy with it being close) when it was assembled and it was basically DEAD ON geometry-wise to the AR...I couldn't be happier (although I will be threading my barrel for the Cooly Comp I have laying around...for no other reason that it will look cooler).

Thanks for a great product.

Rich

[StealthyBlagga]

...Who makes a good dedicated 22 upper, anyway. DPMS discontinued theirs 2 or three years ago...

I used to have a DPMS, but sold it when it became clear they were not supporting it nor coming out with hicap mags. I bought a Ciener, and it has been Swiss-watch reliable with cheap WalMart Federal bulk pack ammo ever since. I run Black Dog 31 rounders in my SBR:

If you want an economical dedicated upper, take a look at the ones from Model 1 Sales. I've not tried one myself, but they seem popular. The $500 price, including the bolt group and one magazine, seems competitive. Personally, like I said, I like the concept of a Ciener in a 5.56 upper... if nothing else, it would be a great excuse to get a new primary match upper and use your old one for .22 practice .

Edited November 25, 2008 by StealthyBlagga

[Stuck in C]

My Nordic conversion was cheaper for me, since I have a box full of old AR parts I used to build it. I have an Aimpoint on my AR, but the cheap Chinese reddot I pulled out of the box is a great substitute (I think it was $29.95 including rings, but I don't remember-it was unused in the box for a long time). Essentially it cost me the $220 for the Nordic kit plus a 1022 from the local pawn shop for $125. Everything else I either had or scrounged. Butler Creek mags are $20 ($30 for the ones with steel feed lips). Everything works, it feels like an AR, and looks way cool. A 5000 round case of .22 ($180) and I'm set for the winter.

[Religious Shooter]

What can you do to make it as effective as possible?

I used the stock barrel with the Nordic... waaay too light. Didn't feel like my AR at all.

I got a Green Mountain barrel (~1" thick)... but it was waaay too heavy.

I got a YHM sporter barrel... just a tad too light. But close enough. The YHM is also pre-threaded (AR standard). I'm looking around for a comp that I can turn upside down to hopefully make the sight jump more in order to simulate recoil.

http://yhm.net/store/ruger_barrels.html

When I get some spare $$$ I probably will give the Green Mountain barrel to my smith to turn it to the correct diameter so that it will exactly mimic the weight of my AR.

Get a trigger job. A lighter trigger makes it more like an AR with a JP/etc.

I have a Ciener and old uppers that I could use. But I choose to use the Nordic because of the speed loaders available for the 10/22. An absolute MUST have.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...&t=11082005

Similar loaders for the Ciener are like $200-300 or something.

[PacMan]

I think the real beauty of the Nordic kit is that most of us already have a 10/22 and spare stock/grip/handguard for the AR laying around the house so the conversion is very inexpensive. If you don't have all spare parts and a 10/22 to start with, then I'd go with a Spikes Tactical .22 uppper.

[ShooterSteve]

I got to shoot the Nordic unit at the Area 6 side match. Man what a bunch of fun. I shot it twice but had to walk away or no one else would have gotten to shoot! I don't know about the other systems, but I promise you, if you set up the Nordic, and use a sight like you have on your AR, you will get quality practice time. I don't have one yet, but there will be one in the future. I will probably need to set up a new credit card to handle my .22 ammo purchases!

PS, Thanks to the Nordic crew for setting that up. I've never been to a sidematch that was that much fun. It was a blast.

[uscbigdawg]

My Nordic conversion was cheaper for me, since I have a box full of old AR parts I used to build it. I have an Aimpoint on my AR, but the cheap Chinese reddot I pulled out of the box is a great substitute (I think it was $29.95 including rings, but I don't remember-it was unused in the box for a long time). Essentially it cost me the $220 for the Nordic kit plus a 1022 from the local pawn shop for $125. Everything else I either had or scrounged. Butler Creek mags are $20 ($30 for the ones with steel feed lips). Everything works, it feels like an AR, and looks way cool. A 5000 round case of .22 ($180) and I'm set for the winter.

Same boat. Local pawn shop in NC had a 10/22 for $50. I have a bin of AR parts and all I did was buy a Green Mountain fluted SS barrel 'cause it looks cool and well it was close in weight. Just want to thread it for an extra JP-BC comp I have now.

Done. Optics were not that a big a problem as unfortunately I have a scope addiction and own too many.

Rich

[patrickbeijer]

What are the most reliable mags for the ruger 10/22 ???

I need to buy a bunch and preffer to buy the ones that work