M&P Pro

[Shadow]

If the spent casing is loose in the chamber, the gun might be trying to unlock while still under pressure. Sometimes the fix for this is a heavier recoil spring to keep the gun closed a little longer. Years ago my agency used 5906's and we constantly broke extractors because of premature unlock. I know that stiffer springs = more torque, but you might give it a try. I'd check your primers for firing pin drag marks, which can be another indicator of unlocking under pressure. Sometimes we can mask this problem with heavier extractor springs, but we're really just stressing the part and asking for failure. This kind of thing also leads to wear on the extractor spring. The ultimate fix is better barrel fit. You may need to look at an aftermarket bbl with more "dwell" or having your factory barrel welded to extend the time it's locked to the slide (often a gunsmith can do this pretty easy).

-MB

Boyd-

FWIW, this also happens with highly polished chambers. The gun is normally engineerered with the idea that as the round fires, the pressure locks the case to the chamber and the case moves to the rear with the barrel until the pressure peak subsides and then the case seperates from the barrel (chamber) and is extracted and ejected. Factory chambers are not mirror polished. When chambers are polished to a mirror type finish with rouge or extremely fine grit, the case may not stick to the chamber long enough (if at all) and tries to unlock the gun early as you describe.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Shadow

[Boyd]

If the spent casing is loose in the chamber, the gun might be trying to unlock while still under pressure. Sometimes the fix for this is a heavier recoil spring to keep the gun closed a little longer. Years ago my agency used 5906's and we constantly broke extractors because of premature unlock. I know that stiffer springs = more torque, but you might give it a try. I'd check your primers for firing pin drag marks, which can be another indicator of unlocking under pressure. Sometimes we can mask this problem with heavier extractor springs, but we're really just stressing the part and asking for failure. This kind of thing also leads to wear on the extractor spring. The ultimate fix is better barrel fit. You may need to look at an aftermarket bbl with more "dwell" or having your factory barrel welded to extend the time it's locked to the slide (often a gunsmith can do this pretty easy).

-MB

Boyd-

FWIW, this also happens with highly polished chambers. The gun is normally engineerered with the idea that as the round fires, the pressure locks the case to the chamber and the case moves to the rear with the barrel until the pressure peak subsides and then the case seperates from the barrel (chamber) and is extracted and ejected. Factory chambers are not mirror polished. When chambers are polished to a mirror type finish with rouge or extremely fine grit, the case may not stick to the chamber long enough (if at all) and tries to unlock the gun early as you describe.

Interesting and I never thought about this before. In theory, the whole concept of delayed blowback is for the barrel and slide to stay together until the bullet leaves the barrel. If you look at your slide and barrel as you ease them back, you see a short period of travel when they stay together, then the barrel drops down from the slide. (JMB was an absolute genius to figure out this dwell time in the days when he was working!!!!!). When the bullet leaves the barrel, pressure instantly drops and there should be no pressure on the casing. There might be some friction, but no pressure. I personally think that S&W sometimes struggles with this timing issue in their guns and have to depend on extractor tension to keep the guns running. If they go to a longer slide/barrel, the pressure on the casing lasts longer (it takes longer for the bullet to exit the barrel) and I hope that S&W has factored this into the longer barrel configurations.

It's fascinating to think that a highly polished chamber may make this problem worse. You'd think that the really clean gun would be less reliable than a fouled gun, since chamber friction is probably lower in the clean chamber. Maybe there's a lubricating aspect to slight fouling.

Bottom line: All guns are cruel, they just can't help it.

-MB

[Boyd]

If the spent casing is loose in the chamber, the gun might be trying to unlock while still under pressure. Sometimes the fix for this is a heavier recoil spring to keep the gun closed a little longer. Years ago my agency used 5906's and we constantly broke extractors because of premature unlock. I know that stiffer springs = more torque, but you might give it a try. I'd check your primers for firing pin drag marks, which can be another indicator of unlocking under pressure. Sometimes we can mask this problem with heavier extractor springs, but we're really just stressing the part and asking for failure. This kind of thing also leads to wear on the extractor spring. The ultimate fix is better barrel fit. You may need to look at an aftermarket bbl with more "dwell" or having your factory barrel welded to extend the time it's locked to the slide (often a gunsmith can do this pretty easy).

-MB

I'm on hold with S&W while I'm typing this...I think the guns should work as they come from the factory. I don't think getting an after market barrel is the solution. I wonder if S&W will fix this?

I absolutely agree the gun should run and I hope Smith fixes it for you. If they don't and you want to stick with the platform, there are probably ways to fix it (often Gen III or IV guns work out these kinds of kinks, after shooters have logged way too much frustration). I once spoke with the VP of the entire S&W company and asked about the extractor breakage problem in their 5906's (after the service center sent me a (free) big bag of extractors and the go / no-go gauges, telling me this was a common problem). The VP looked at me and said that there was no problem at all. These things take time to work their way back up to decision makers.......

Good luck

-MB

[fiddler]

I too have had problems with my M&P Pro. There were dozens of FTEs and FTFs and failures to go completely into battery and failures to lock back the slide after the last shot, all in the first 200 rounds. Newbie that I am, I just figured it needed some break in. I had used some Slide Glide Light on the rails after the initial cleaning and I thought maybe it didn't like the 15 degree temps I was shooting in so I cleaned the gun really well and tried again. I also switched to the largest backstrap. The failure rate went down to 4 in a hundred.

Forum geek that I am, I found some threads about chamber polishing on the m-p pistol forum and I polished the chamber and feed ramp. Still about four failures in a hundred.

Last weekend I took it out one last time to give it one last chance before sending it back. It sent 200 rounds of WWB 115gr downrange without a hiccup. All my previous efforts were with Remington UMC, PMC and Blazer with various bullet weights, most failures with the Remington which were noticably shorter than other loads. I'm going back to the range with another 200 WWB and keeping my fingers crossed that maybe it will continue to work. I hope it's not just wishful thinking.

Roy

[RH45]

I too have had problems with my M&P Pro. There were dozens of FTEs and FTFs and failures to go completely into battery and failures to lock back the slide after the last shot, all in the first 200 rounds. Newbie that I am, I just figured it needed some break in. I had used some Slide Glide Light on the rails after the initial cleaning and I thought maybe it didn't like the 15 degree temps I was shooting in so I cleaned the gun really well and tried again. I also switched to the largest backstrap. The failure rate went down to 4 in a hundred.

Forum geek that I am, I found some threads about chamber polishing on the m-p pistol forum and I polished the chamber and feed ramp. Still about four failures in a hundred.

Last weekend I took it out one last time to give it one last chance before sending it back. It sent 200 rounds of WWB 115gr downrange without a hiccup. All my previous efforts were with Remington UMC, PMC and Blazer with various bullet weights, most failures with the Remington which were noticably shorter than other loads. I'm going back to the range with another 200 WWB and keeping my fingers crossed that maybe it will continue to work. I hope it's not just wishful thinking.

Roy

As much as I like Slide glide in the summer, at 15 degrees, I KNOW it turns my open gun into a single shot, and now use Mobil 1, or FP1 in the winter.

[ebg3]

I too have had problems with my M&P Pro. There were dozens of FTEs and FTFs and failures to go completely into battery and failures to lock back the slide after the last shot, all in the first 200 rounds. Newbie that I am, I just figured it needed some break in. I had used some Slide Glide Light on the rails after the initial cleaning and I thought maybe it didn't like the 15 degree temps I was shooting in so I cleaned the gun really well and tried again. I also switched to the largest backstrap. The failure rate went down to 4 in a hundred.

Forum geek that I am, I found some threads about chamber polishing on the m-p pistol forum and I polished the chamber and feed ramp. Still about four failures in a hundred.

Last weekend I took it out one last time to give it one last chance before sending it back. It sent 200 rounds of WWB 115gr downrange without a hiccup. All my previous efforts were with Remington UMC, PMC and Blazer with various bullet weights, most failures with the Remington which were noticably shorter than other loads. I'm going back to the range with another 200 WWB and keeping my fingers crossed that maybe it will continue to work. I hope it's not just wishful thinking.

Roy

Roy,

I hate to sound negative but I think that is wishful thinking. I'm pretty sure I have mine fixed now but I think I'm sending it down the road. The M&P has won! I'm done! I hope all you other M&P owners have better luck than I did. I can never have confidence to shoot this gun in a match so it's got to go.

EG

[rgkeller]

It is a real shame that a pistol specifically designed for competition and with many excellent features will not run reliably.

I really wanted to get one of these.

[A62335]

I too had FTE's with my Pro when it was new, it was one of the first one's off the line. However, after about 300 rounds, the FTE's disappeared, and I have put over 3000 rounds through it since then without a single malfunction of any kind. I did re-spring it when I first got it, it currently has a 11lb ISMI recoil spring.

[Wilkenstein]

Well i finally got mine today. I cleaned and then lubed it with fp-10, then headed to the range. Kind of nervous because of this thread, but it ate through 200 rounds of blazer brass without incident. No real fast shooting yet, but I got the slide nice and hot.

The trigger is horrible though. Super gritty takeup. You can actually hear it it's so bad.

[G-ManBart]

The trigger is horrible though. Super gritty takeup. You can actually hear it it's so bad.

Is it a standard M&P or a Pro?

[Coveyrise]

No problems with my pro.

[sperman]

Well i finally got mine today. I cleaned and then lubed it with fp-10, then headed to the range. Kind of nervous because of this thread, but it ate through 200 rounds of blazer brass without incident. No real fast shooting yet, but I got the slide nice and hot.

The trigger is horrible though. Super gritty takeup. You can actually hear it it's so bad.

My 9L was the same way. Over 8 lbs of pull. There are several guys here on the forum that can fix it for you. Danial97 did mine.

[LeoHallak]

A buddy of mine brought his down last night and we pulled the extractor and cleaned it. after cleaning it, it did tighten it up a lot but it still seems like its not tuned very well.. it reminded me of how lose my 38 super extractor in my witness was till i tuned it for super comp..

Leo

[JohnN]

I've got over 1000rds of S&B, WWB and Fiocchi through my 9L without the first glitch.

[Wilkenstein]

The trigger is horrible though. Super gritty takeup. You can actually hear it it's so bad.

Is it a standard M&P or a Pro?

It's the pro. It's not a heavy pull, just gritty during takeup. The safety plunger (I think that's what it's called) and the trigger bar are causing it I believe. Anyone have any directions on dissasembly of these parts?

[Wilkenstein]

The trigger is horrible though. Super gritty takeup. You can actually hear it it's so bad.

Is it a standard M&P or a Pro?

It's the pro. It's not a heavy pull, just gritty during takeup. The safety plunger (I think that's what it's called) and the trigger bar are causing it I believe. Anyone have any directions on dissasembly of these parts?

Nevermind, I found a good how to. And it was the striker block I was thinking of that needs work.

[Sarge]

My Pro has never failed to extract that I can recall. Well into the thousands now. It is a very good gun so far. It is accurate as well.

[fiddler]

The trigger is horrible though. Super gritty takeup. You can actually hear it it's so bad.

Mine was rough at first but smoothed out noticeably with the firing described above and alot of dry firing.

[fiddler]

Nevermind, I found a good how to. And it was the striker block I was thinking of that needs work.

Where did you find it? Is there a good how to for working on the extractor anywhere?

[Beretta Lover]

this is why I didnt get an MP when they first came out I wanted to see what kind of high round count reliabilty they had.

by round count I mean at least 20K or better.

Whenever a new shooter says "what kind of gun should I get?" I generally say.

Try all of mine and then buy a Glock 17 or 19.

My XD has had some regular parts bustage problems and I still own three of them.

I think its a shame that the only documented universally reliable polymer handgun has been the Glock.

I know Julie Goloski and a lot of other high round count types shoot MPs but they have access to very good gunnsmithing and multiple guns

I know at least one full time MP shooter who has sent his gun back to SW twice now.

I think its the luck of the draw with who works on your gun there.

If it were me I would e mail Julie on her website and ask her advice, she shoots for them

[99gski]

Hi Everyone,

Just saw this thread and breezed through it real quick. My best advice is to call S&W Customer Service at 1800.331.0852. I will also send a link to this thread to the product managers involved.

I haven't had the opportunity to shoot the M&P Pro yet (took a year and a half off) but I do plan to start shooting it soon. There has been a high volume test performed with the M&P9. Check out the test archives at http://pistol-training.com/archives/catego...ports/mp-monday. The tester, Todd Green (Pistol-Training.com), is meticulous in his reporting and is a well respected trainer and master class level shooter. Smith & Wesson even had this pistol in the booth at SHOT Show.

Hope that helps!

All the best,

Julie

[kimel]

Thanks for jumping in Julie.

I have been wanting to add a Pro to the stable since I shot the one Robin Taylor had last Summer but apart from them being hard to get these frequent reports of problems have me thinking maybe I'll hold off.

But now that you guys are on it I'm sure it will get fixed.

Hope we will see you back at Nationals this year!

[ebg3]

Hi Everyone,

Just saw this thread and breezed through it real quick. My best advice is to call S&W Customer Service at 1800.331.0852. I will also send a link to this thread to the product managers involved.

I haven't had the opportunity to shoot the M&P Pro yet (took a year and a half off) but I do plan to start shooting it soon. There has been a high volume test performed with the M&P9. Check out the test archives at http://pistol-training.com/archives/catego...ports/mp-monday. The tester, Todd Green (Pistol-Training.com), is meticulous in his reporting and is a well respected trainer and master class level shooter. Smith & Wesson even had this pistol in the booth at SHOT Show.

Hope that helps!

All the best,

Julie

Hi Julie,

Thanks for the response. I've spoken with Customer Service a few times and really didn't get anywhere. The gun was sent back once and from my last conversation with CS I got the impression that it may have been function fired but no actions were taken to actually fix the problem. I did have a conversation with a S&W shooter and he confirmed a potential fix for the problem of FTE. I removed the ext., added a spring and did a little polishing and stoning and my problems of FTE seem to have gone away. Now I have to get the ext. tension right to ensure proper feeding/function. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or patience to work through this problem right now.

I do think this is a real problem with these guns as I have spoken with several people having the same issue. I may hang on to my gun and wait for S&W to come up with a solution/fix instead of selling but I still don't feel comfortable shooting it in a match( although I did make Master in Production with it at last Saturday's Classifier Match).

Regards,

Eddie Gammons

[kgunz11]

I don't think you guys should let a few guns turn you away from the M&P. I have both a standard 9 and a 9Pro. My shooting partners Glocks (a 34 and a 17) all puked out on him at the Max and Travis class so I loaned him my Pro. Not a single hiccup other than the slide not locking back on last round fired a few times. I haven't looked into why this might be happening yet, but I imagine I can tweak the feed lips to allow the follower to rise enough to engage the SS.

[99gski]

Hi Everyone,

Just saw this thread and breezed through it real quick. My best advice is to call S&W Customer Service at 1800.331.0852. I will also send a link to this thread to the product managers involved.

I haven't had the opportunity to shoot the M&P Pro yet (took a year and a half off) but I do plan to start shooting it soon. There has been a high volume test performed with the M&P9. Check out the test archives at http://pistol-training.com/archives/catego...ports/mp-monday. The tester, Todd Green (Pistol-Training.com), is meticulous in his reporting and is a well respected trainer and master class level shooter. Smith & Wesson even had this pistol in the booth at SHOT Show.

Hope that helps!

All the best,

Julie

Hi Julie,

Thanks for the response. I've spoken with Customer Service a few times and really didn't get anywhere. The gun was sent back once and from my last conversation with CS I got the impression that it may have been function fired but no actions were taken to actually fix the problem. I did have a conversation with a S&W shooter and he confirmed a potential fix for the problem of FTE. I removed the ext., added a spring and did a little polishing and stoning and my problems of FTE seem to have gone away. Now I have to get the ext. tension right to ensure proper feeding/function. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or patience to work through this problem right now.

I do think this is a real problem with these guns as I have spoken with several people having the same issue. I may hang on to my gun and wait for S&W to come up with a solution/fix instead of selling but I still don't feel comfortable shooting it in a match( although I did make Master in Production with it at last Saturday's Classifier Match).

Regards,

Eddie Gammons

Hi Eddie,

Hmmm. Real sorry about the problems you have been having. Will definitely let the product managers know. Congrats on Master class though! That's great!

Julie