What is the softest load for .40S&W in a limited IPSC pistol

[Hagop]

I am asking any one on this forum that competes in IPSC Limited division with a .40S&W SVI/STI pistol or any 1911 type, "freebored" and chambered in the above mentioned caliber what is the ultimate softest shooting reload out there to be had?

I am presently shooting a SVI extended frame pistol with a Nowlin bull barrel freebored to accept my reloads of an overall lenght of 1.240 and a 200gr. Zero bullet with 4.5gr. of Hodgdon International Clays and Winchester small rifle primers for a USPSA/IPSC power factor of 177.

Yet feel that there is a combination of bullet weight and powder type that will give me the required power factor with lower felt recoil.

But for the life of me do not know what that could be.

HELP!

[Carlos]

To add a piece to the puzzle, I find 2 faster burning  powders would lead to a softer load: VV N320 and straight, regular old Hodgdon Clays.  While the Hodgdon is cheaper (and I am a huge fan of this powder), for 40SW competition use I would use the 320. Anything that can go wrong, someday will. Clays -can- lead to pressure problems in the 40SW under certain circumstances like excessive summer heat; I have never seen pressure signs with N320 under any circumstances.

Now, how about a debate on specific loads? Anyone?  

[warpspeed]

I shoot a 180gr JHP with 5.0gr of VV N-320 with an OAL of 1.185. 11 lb recoil spring with a shock buff, STI  Edge factory gun.  As I have said before, Flawless.

As with any major loads, start low and work up with the assistance of a chronograph to find out what is accurate and reliable in your firearm.

[ErikW]

The "ultimate softest," if that's your only criteria, for the Major power factor is a 200 gr jacketed with Clays.

[Hagop]

To tell you the truth Carlos.... I have tried VihtaVuori Oy N320 and find it performes equal to Hodgdon International Clays.

The load I had with this powder was Winchester Brass with a 200gr. Zero bullet and Winchester small rifle primers with 4.7gr. of powder and an O.A.L. of 1.240 for a power factor of 177 to 178.

And this powder is much more expensive not to mention hard to get in my neck of the woods.

I was thinking of using Hodgdon's "TITEGROUP" wich is a tad slower in burning rate that Alliant's "BULLSEYE" with both 180gr. and 200gr. Zero bullets it order to hopefully reach my goal of the ultimate softest shooting major IPSC load.

I figure I will start off with 4.2gr. of TITEGROUP behind a 200gr. Zero bullet to find out unless some of you guys have already been there and done that?

Please advise?

[Carlos]

Hm - interesting that 320 was closer to Int. clays than straightClays. Just finished off the last of a 4lb jug of Clays last night. Your post has inspired me to expirament this weekend with that 1lb can of Titegroup that has sat untried at the back of the powder magazine since last December. Will let you know what I discover.

[Hagop]

Warspeed,

I have said it but nobody seems to be convinced that Hodgdon International Clays is as equal as one could possibly get in a freebored 1911 auto pistol in .40.

I have been absent for some time and have been busy doing some research and am convinced of the caracteristics of International Clays in a freebored .40 IPSC limited pistol.

Your load stated with VV N320 and my current load as I am about to state here is relatively the same.

My current match load is....5.1 grains of Hodgdon International Clays with a 180 grain complete metal jacket Montana Gold bullet with an overall length of 1.230 using Winchester once fired brass and Winchester small rifle primers with a crimp of .421.

This load gives me a power factor of 176 in my Nowlin bull barrel.

It may not be as soft as the 200gr. bullet with the Hodgdon clays powder but it is much safer and not as volatile as the clays propellant.

I say this because in my absence from this forum I have done the comparisons in my competition pistol and have decided to stay with the mentioned recipe here-in.

The cost saving involved when comparing the results and the retail price of both VV N320 and Hodgdon International Clays....for me anyways has convinced me to go with Hodgdon I.C.

So if you want an equal alternative to VV N320 at greater savings without sacrificing efficiency,accuracy and safety consider International Clays from Hodgdon.

Knowledge is power.

[chi]

I used a 180 fmj with 4.8 titegroup with a 170 pf.   OAL 1.180.   shoots fine.

[Tree Rat]

WST shoots noticeably softer than N320 with any given bullet weight in major. Clays HAS TO BE over pressured to achieve major, again in any bullet weight. Titegroup is awesome stuff (I call it 21st century Bullseye), but too snappy for competition use IMHO..............

TR

[Guest bulm5]

Hey Tree Rat, Are youusing 180s or 200s with your WST load.

[chi]

Tree Rat, your right about TG.   But after shooting my 45 in L10 for awhile now and since going to a 40 SV Long Dust. gun I realize that with the 40 its a snapy roundto begin with.   Sure you can shoot 200 gr bullets but I wanted a fast recoiling gun.  

I cut back the duct cover 1.125 switched powders from Unv Clays to TG, install a long flat trigger and I must say that the gun handles MUCH better.    I wanted the front sight to POP up and right back down.

To shoot the 40 like a 45 seems didnt  seem right to me, especially with a long dust cover.   Almost like a gun loaded down with mud.    Just my thoughts though.   thanks

[lynn jones]

i use 5.8gr  winchester super field with a 180gr montana gold bullet.   nice load.

lynn jones

(Edited by lynn jones at 7:31 am on Nov. 16, 2002)

[Tree Rat]

bulm5........4.6 WST, 180 Star FMJ-FP @ OAL 1.140..........Kimber.

Work your loads up carefully........Your mileage may vary.

TR

[Guest bulm5]

thanks Tree Rat. I went back to 200s ( PRecisions) and I think I will like it.

[benos]

Just some FFT - I spoke with Ron Reiber at length (when sponsored by Hogdon and when the pf was 170) and he politely refused to send me any International Clays, because, he said that powder was designed to be used in a shotgun and was NEVER INTENDED TO BE USED IN A PISTOL. (The pressure curves between the two being dramatically different.) At that time, he told me that, even though the pressure for Clays was dramatically higher (on the average), he would prefer I shoot Clays. And this was because in his experience (pressure testing International Clays), now and then, or rarely but it did happen, it would pressure spike "way off the chart" in 40 cal. And of course one bad round is much worse (in terms of blowing up your gun) than a steady diet of heavy, albeit borderline rounds. Now as far as the present pf is concerned, I can't say for sure if what he told me still applies. So, I'm just saying - be wary of using a powder in a high pressure pistol caliber that was never intended to be used in any pistol whatsoever.

be

[Austin Hemphill]

I have been playing with my loads a lot lately and have found that WST seems to be the softest I have shot, but my gun did not seem to track as well for me.  I found that for me, titegroup has the best feel and tracking with Montana gold 180JHP.  320 may be a bit softer, and a good bit quiter than TG, but I think I can get used to it.

[Hagop]

Ghost Dog,

I have been using Hodgdon International Clays for the past three years behind a 200gr. jacketted bullet and can tell you from experience that I have not experienced what Mr.Ron Reiber claims goes on in a .40 S&W chambering.

I have just recently changed my bullet weight to 180 grains and am still using International Clays with no pressure spikes mind you in a freebored Nowlin bull barrel with the bullets seated out to 1.230 oal.

I would not reccomend someone to use this powder in a non freebored barrel....neither would I reccomend someone use clays powder in the same.

There is a lot of IPSC competitors out there using shotgun powders in their race guns with no problems....I do not see why there is such a fuss made about this one and why it is being avoided and not exploited.

As I understand it Todd Jarrett uses this very same powder in his limited pistol behind a 180gr. Flat Point Hornady bullet with an overall length of 1.185.

There are a lot of shotgun powders developed at the time for use in only shotguns.

That was the purpose at the time of development....yet a good percentage of IPSC competitors out there have elected to use them in their pistol chamberings.

Anyways like you said yourself.....you can't say for sure if what Mr.Ron Reiber said at that time still applies today.

Knowledge is Power.

[benos]

Hagop,

If your particular load combo ever manifested the pressure spikes Ron R spoke of, your gun would probably be blown up. It wouldn't be just a "little hotter load." And yes, it is hard to say for sure what's the deal with today's pf. It might be OK. But, I always felt Clays was softer than International Clays anyway, so I'd (personally) just use the Clays.

be

[Hagop]

benos,

That is it then.....Clays is the powder to go with for the softest feeling amongst all the others.

Even though you are living on the edge.....it is not without some predictability.

I guess this is the ultimate powder for the softest feel.

Thanks

[Harmon]

This is an OLD topic,but i can recall the pressure spike INTERNATIONAL CLAYS has in pistol rounds. I used it in 9mm and almost blew a case head....a long time ago.

that being said, WST seems to be just as soft as clays and almost as unpredictable.

harmon

[2 para's]

The Softest and I mean the softest shooting major load for 40 ,if the softest is what your looking for and you will have to be the judge of tracking, accuaracy and all that stuff. like springing the gun for it and all that stuff.........get some 220's Moly or Lead Truncated Cones start with about 4.0 grns of WST and load at 1.190 or longer it makes major and IS THE SOFTEST. oh and about unpredictable--- with Clays be carefull....but never had any probs with WST.

Edited July 2, 2008 by 2 para's

[bobobooie]

The Softest and I mean the softest shooting major load for 40 ,if the softest is what your looking for and you will have to be the judge of tracking, accuaracy and all that stuff. like springing the gun for it and all that stuff.........get some 220's Moly or Lead Truncated Cones start with about 4.0 grns of WST and load at 1.190 or longer it makes major and IS THE SOFTEST. oh and about unpredictable--- with Clays be carefull....but never had any probs with WST.

+1. For me it's 220gr S&S lead bullet with 3.5 WST at 1.2 OAL. Soft, soft, soft. In my STI SS and my chrono it computes to a 170pf. I run a 12.5 recoil spring (no buff) and a 17lb mainspring (YRMV). You asked for soft. This is really really soft.

[XRe]

but never had any probs with WST.

Seen a couple of blown cases w/ WST. Not seen any w/ N320. WST is softer, IME, but in my gun, it leaves cornmeal crap all over the place, whereas N320 is clean as a whistle. N320 is significantly softer (and cooler) than Titegroup in my gun, as well. With the consistency that N320 has shown for me, that's what I settled on for .40 loads...

[Jman]

Shot up some "new" Unique last week for $hits and grins. And umm..

...it didn't suck. 5.1grs under a black 180gr Billy Bullet in my G35. Stock Glock barrel.

Soft? yes, very.

Consistent? yes, Stayed around 974 FPS (175 PF) Think I'll drop a tenth.

Dirty? some. Not nearly what I was expecting though.

FWIW

Jim

[Dustdevil21]

Shot up some "new" Unique last week for $hits and grins. And umm..

...it didn't suck. 5.1grs under a black 180gr Billy Bullet in my G35. Stock Glock barrel.

Soft? yes, very.

Consistent? yes, Stayed around 974 FPS (175 PF) Think I'll drop a tenth.

Dirty? some. Not nearly what I was expecting though.

FWIW

Jim

Nice to hear JimmyM,

I have some Unique sitting around, I might have to try it, since I am looking for a new load recipie for my G24 (away from the TG)

Doug