Springfield Champion Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) Has anyone here taken deer with a 45 or a 40 cal? If so what kind of response did they give when being struck? I know in deer terms its all relative but the end result is not. I have taken 3 or so with a 357 with excellent results so far. I just wonder with a slower slug how they will handle it and the 45 vs the 40. I like the diameter of the 45 but the 40 has some more speed and peneteration. Real world knowledge is what counts though. The ballistics of the 30/30 compared to a 3006 is silly. All the deer I've shot with both were DRT but more ran a few yards with the 3006 before giving up. Way more dropped in their track with the 30/30. By looking at a load data book with just book sense a layman would never pick the 30/30 as the best killer up close but real world experience tells us/me its moving slower or just kills better. Plainly gives more shock. I've seen a 9mm applied to a deer and it was silly and pathetic both occasions. Edited November 17, 2008 by Springfield Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Champion Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 Looking at all the responses I take it no-one hunts with handguns. Thats cool, and probably a good idea. I glocked two with a 40 cal since the season opened and it did kill them, but not with any of what I call; so called "authority". I may try one with a 45 and see if it gives better results. I understand the mozambique drill more and more now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Killing animals is more a matter of shot placement than anything else. I have seen animals get up and run hundreds of yards with a good chest shot in them from a 30-06 rifle with soft point ammunition (not usual reaction to a 30-06 chest shot)and I presonally had to put down a deer with a .22 rifle. I am NOT recommending you use a .22 but it got the job done. IMHO do not go deer hunting with less than a .30 cal rifle. Why shoot a deer with a pistol when there are a metric buttload of rifles available to do the job? We had a guy here who once shot a black bear with a .38 revolver to show it could be done. I thought it was a little on the small size for a bear but he did kill it with his .38 cal S&W revolver. Shoot these animals with a mind toward that you are shooting a living thing that can feel pain...why shoot it with a pistol when you can use a rifle and get the job done properly? JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Champion Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 I want to know generally what a pistol/caliber is capable of putting down in a real world and they usually run about the same poundage as us.I understand the rifle thing and them running maybe 70yds with a good chest shot, some are just tough nuts. I have seen some great shot placements with a 9mm and I disagree with you on that area, one deer had no idea what was happening "clueless," thought a acorn had fell out of a tree and hit it esque, the sound made it move 20yds or so and stopped looking around trying to see what happened stood there for a minute with no ill effects "apparently", after another shot about 2" from the first it figured I may as well leave here it sure is loud. It fell over dead about 50 yds down the way. Never showed any signs of being hit and in trouble as they do with rifle calibers or 357. If you are hunting in the real world I agree with you nothing less than a 30 cal.I would never shoot a rack deer that was good with a pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) To each his or her own, but I would not use a living animal to TEST ballistics If there was a poll, I would vote to close and delete this thread Edited November 24, 2008 by zhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Lots of stuff..... No less than a 30 cal rifle for deer? Please. There are a TON of great deer guns under 30 cal, a lot of them a lot more gun than is needed to humanely kill any deer that walks this planet at any reasonable distance. Hunting with handguns is NOT a bad thing, but it is a completely different game. It is VERY much like bow hunting in that the weapon doesn't have much energy and is more difficult to place shots with precision. Shots need to be close and chosen carefully, if you understand the limitations and want to do it I am all for it. I have shot deer with a 45, it works fine with good bullets and good shot placement. I have also shot deer with 357 magnum and a bow. Not a lot of difference with similar shot placement. I get just as irritated when someone tells me I should hunt with a hand gun as when someone tells me I shouldn't bow hunt. I can't find a way to make myself so important as to make that judgment of someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 IMHO do not go deer hunting with less than a .30 cal rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Champion Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 I disagree with you zhunter, I think they are the perfect medium. Usually around 135lbs, and a wild "will" to live at all cost. They were gonna get "harvested" or "neutralized" with the rifle if they had not come close enough for me to try my 40. I'm with Hsmith hunting with a pistol is fun, not near as fun as bowhunting but you can't afford to make any mistakes, one wrong sound and its over. How can you come to conclusions about stopping power by shooting a block of gelatin or a sears catalog? Anyway I think this is a pretty good judge of caliber or at least the best way I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Spring I think we will just agree to disagree. I hunt with a bow, some hunt with rifles, others hunt with handguns. Those that I have heard about hunting with handguns, had used rifle calibers (.223). I do lots of things that others disagree with, I am the last one to pass judgement, and I am sorry it it came out that way earlier. I was just stating my opinion. Do as you please, and by all means, have fun doing it. ZH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Champion Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Na, nothing to it, everyone is different. I had a 223 Colt H-bar years ago because I thought it looked cool, and hay its a historical kind-o-thing right. After I shot 3 or 4 deer with it and saw the "effects" I sold it straight away. They were all good hits and they all died, but every single one of them left on all 4 feet running like the devil. Apparently not hurt very badly at all, which they were, but it had no knock down, hurt them effect to it at all. Very disappointing. Their insides were naturally a mess but it lacked stopping power. If the 223 ever had hit a branch and missed where you were placing it the deer would never be found. Like you said, In "my opinion" the 223 is a poor choice for anything, for myself. If people do hunt with handguns, I would suggest lessening the shoot distance by 10 yds from what you practice at, and think you are profecient at killing. If elevated the vitals are a smaller target area and usually the perfect broadside shot only come about seemingly 1 in 3 encounters.The woods you are in make a difference if they are tight and brushy, hard to track in if you make a bad shot you probably need to stick with a rifle and put it down hard. If they are open and all the planets are aligned and you have plenty of daylight and a good shot, its fun and challenging to get in close. They are skittish for a living and to overcome that in their backyard is fun where the deer are wild. I've been to places on trips where they were like cows and it would be no fun to hunt there. I mainly wanted to see what others had experienced with knockdown power in the handgun area. So far, I was hopeing for more with my own experiences. But a handgun is better to have than a sharp stick I guess. But not as a good as having a 30 cal or a 12 ga.Wow! by the size of this post you can tell I'm stoked by the fact that its hunting season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Hombre, The whole quest/ discussion about "stopping power" is a waste of time. The only round that "stops" people is one that puts them down immed regardless of the area struck. Basically an antitank round or something similar. Stopping someones actions or dropping an animal using a pistol or rifle is a product of shot placement more than it is a product of the size of the round used. A .22 has "stopping power" .....IF you strike the bad guy in the head. We went through this with our .50 cal protocols about using it to stop a VBIED. (Veh borne I.E.D.) A US Army S.F. guy told me they tried to stop a veh in Afghanistan by shooting at it. Veh (old russian truck) kept going merrily along until someones light bulb went on and they shot the driver. You can shoot a vehicle an awful lot before it finally stops. We finally told the powers that be if you want to shoot a VEHICLE to stop it then you'd better buy us an anti-tank weapon otherwise the way to stop a moving vehicle is to shoot the driver........which then creates another whole host of problems. (moving veh with possible bomb inside now driverless......can you say Excitement ? ) There is NO such thing as "stopping power". It is an urban legend / misnomer/ whatever you want to call it. Shooting animals to then compare how the animal reacts to what a person will do/react is again a waste of time. Animals don't "know" they're shot and supposed to die. People die all the time from injuries that an animal would not die from and then there are the cases of people shot that just don't quit despite orrific wounds. Example : FBI Shootout in Florida. One of the first rounds fired by an FBI agent during htis incident struck one of the bad guys (Platt and Mattix forget which one was the main shooter ) and it was a "Non-Survivable wound" according to the M.E.'s report. If I recall correctly a portion of this guys heart was literally torn away by the round and he would have died even had he been shot inside the trauma hospital with the operating crew standing by. This guy went on to wound and kill more people despite being mortally wounded. Does that mean the round or weapon he was shot with is no good? Nope....just means he had a mental state that he was not going down until he was unable to physically continue. Don't shoot animals to test terminal ballistics. Your data on a deer/bear means nothing (no comparison) to shooting a bad guy. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Champion Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 "Theres no such thing as stoppign power" I'm gonna have to play my Bull-hit card now. While not every encounter can be defnite, it does give you data, and an idea of what to expect. A 22 to the center of the chest perfect placement may very well kill the BG but a 30/30 missing 3 inches left right up or down will have stopping power and will in "almost" every encouter stop a situation. Now I have not seen this done per-say but I have a really good feeling that I am correct by what I have seen in the past. If you disagree with me. I understand, just let me live in my happy place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Forum Guidelines (clickity): Intent This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged. CLOSED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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