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vincent

Idpa Classifier Master Pace Breakdown

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I've seen it come up a few times so I thought I'd post my calculations (and observations) for a Master class pace for the IDPA Classifier in CDP and ESP. A good SSP shooter shouldn't add any time. SSR shooters should add time to at least the reloads. Both SSP and SSR can add about 10 seconds to this pace and still make it.

This breakdown doesn't take into consideration the differences between splits on the same target and target transitions but since there are only 3 targets and they are only 6' apart (edge to edge) it should all wash out.

Time is added for draws and reloads as distance increases, especially at 20 yards. Time is added for weak hand only and strong hand only shooting as well.

I have seen this pace matched pretty closely on a number of successful Master classification attempts. I personally shoot at a slightly slower pace but try to keep my points down about half of that show below - the results are about the same. The key seems to be keeping the points down reasonable on Stage 3 without letting the times get too high. As you can see Stage 3 is 1/3 of the rounds but closer to 1/2 of the total time.

Here you go,

-Vincent

--------------------

Stage 1:

String 1: 1.5 Draw to first shot(D-1) + .25 Split to second body + .35 Split to head = 2.10

String 2: Same = 2.10

String 3: Same = 2.10

String 4: 1.5 D-1 + .35x5 Splits for heads = 3.25

String 5: 1.5 D-1 + .45x2 Splits for weak hand = 2.40

String 6: 1.5 D-1 + .25x2 + 2.0 Slide-lock Reload (SLR) + .25x2 = 4.50

String 6: 1.75 D-1 + .30x5 Splits for strong hand = 3.25

Total time = 19.70

Total points down = 10 = 5.00

Stage 1 Total = 24.70

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Stage2:

String 1: 1.75 D-1 + .30x5 = 3.25

String 2: Same = 3.25

String 3: 2.0 D-1 + .30x5 + 2.25 SLR + .30x5 = 7.25

String 4: 2.0 D-1 + .35x5 = 3.75

Total time = 17.50

Total points down = 10 = 5.00

Stage 2 Total = 22.50

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Stage 3:

String 1: 3.0 D-1 + .50x5 + 4.0 Tactical Reload (TR) + .50x5 = 12.00

String 2: Same + 2.0 extra for movement and kneeling (stuff mag on move) = 14.00

String 3: 2.5 D-1 + .45x5 = 4.75

Total time = 30.75

Total points down = 20 = 10.00

Stage 3 Total = 40.75

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Match grand total = 87.95

--------------------

The classification course of fire is (see the IDPA rulebook for details):

3 Targets set 6' apart edge to edge. T1 is set at 6' high (at top of head), T2 at 4' high and T3 at 5' high. A 55 gallon drum is set at 15 yards and a Bianchi barricade is set at 20 yards, both in line with the center target.

STAGE ONE (Position #1 is at 7 Yards centered on middle target):

String 1: Position #1 Draw and fire 2 shots to the body and 1 to head on T1. 3shots

String 2: Position #1 Draw and fire 2 shots to the body and 1 to head on T2. 3shots

String 3: Position #1 Draw and fire 2 shots to the body and 1 to head on T3. 3shots

String 4: Position #1 Draw and fire 2 shots at each head T1 - T3. 6shots

***Note: Hits below the head area should be noted and pasted before shooting String Five.

String 5: Position #1 Start gun in "WEAK" hand pointed down range at a 45º angle, safety may be off, but finger must be out of trigger guard, fire 1 shot at each T1 - T3. WEAK HAND ONLY. 3shots

String 6: Position #1 (Load 3 rounds MAX. in pistol) Start back to targets, turn and fire1 shot at each, T1 - T3, reload from slidelock and fire 1 shot at each, T1 - T3. 6shots

String 7: Position #1 Draw and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 "STRONG" hand only. 6shots

STAGE TWO (Position #2 is 10 Yards centered on the middle target. Position #3 is 5 yards centered on the center target):

String 1: Position #2 Draw and advance toward targets, fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 while moving forward (all shots must be fired while moving) there is a forward fault line at the 5yd line for this string. 6shots

String 2: Position #3 Draw and retreat from targets, fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 while retreating (all shots must be fired while moving). 6shots

String 3: Position #2 (Load 6 rounds MAX. in pistol) Start back to targets, turn and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3, reload from slidelock and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 . 12shots

String 4 Position #2 Draw and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 “STRONG” hand only. 6shots

STAGE THREE (Position 4 is behind Bianchi barricade at 20 yards. Position 5 is behind barrel at 15 yards. Bianchi style barricade and 55 gal. barrel required.):

String 1: Position #4 Draw and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from either side of the barricade, TACTICAL LOAD or MAGAZINE CHANGE WITH

RETENTION and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from the opposite side of barricade. 12shots

String 2: Position #4 Draw and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from either side of the barricade, TACTICAL LOAD or MAGAZINE CHANGE WITH RETENTION and advance to Position #5, fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from around either side of 55 gal. Barrel. 12shots

String 3: Position #5 Draw, kneel, and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from around either side of 55 gal. Barrel. 6shots

Note: Start position for all strings EXCEPT Stage One / String 5 is hands naturally at your sides.

Note: While shooting from Position #4 behind the Bianchi barricade the shooter's feet must stay inside the outer width of the barricade "legs".

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Good stuff...

My recent yearly attempt @ IDPA in CDP

String & Stage

1 2.15

2 2.25

3 2.34

4 4.44

5 11.11 :wacko: (malfunction)

6 2.99

7 5.10

(9 points down) :angry:

1 3.80

2 3.84

3 9.35

4 4.55

(2.5 points down) :)

1 12.07

2 13.33

3 5.27

(11 points down) :)

Total time was 105.59

Good enough for Expert, but I not happy.

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I don't know if you guys can find something like this, but PAR times for the lower divisions of IDPA on the classifier would be terrific!

I'm new to IDPA (my second match is in 2 weeks)... it would be nice to have someone benchmarks for each of the strings in the stages (or better yet the format you used for each shot). I have no idea what is good or bad at each particular string/stage so I don't necessarily know where to focus my self-improvement activities...

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Matt B. shoots the classifier in his new IDPA tape. I think his overall time is something like 65 seconds for the ENTIRE classifier. He never broke a sweat doing it. All I could do was chuckle.

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Great point of reference. New shooters should find it useful. The time per string is close to what I usually do, but for me, add time to the draw, and subtract time from the transitions and splits.

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vincent's calculations are pretty good. I have kept track of most of the times I shot the classifier even in practice. I shot into Master ESP in 2000 using a HiPower. My final score was 83.94. However I was only down 11 points for the whole classifier. :D Generally my times will be longer and points down less. It's funny. I can shoot faster or slower but the final score seems to be the same. B) Note that SSP & SSR can be about 10 seconds slower than this. Points down will kill you. <_<

Bill Nesbitt

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Matt B. shoots the classifier in his new IDPA tape. I think his overall time is something like 65 seconds for the ENTIRE classifier. He never broke a sweat doing it. All I could do was chuckle.

Yea I watched that tape too.

I didn't laughf, I almost cried.

WOW did he just do that???

I moved from marksmen to sharpshooter in one year.

I have a long way to go...

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stryfox

Good going, now what is your timeframe to make Master.

(I learned all this from Mr. Tough Love himself.)

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I have been using Vincent's breakdown as a roadmap to master for the past few weeks and have found it to be invaluable. I usually take longer on the transitions, but make up for it with faster draws and reloads.

My personal best time in practice so far is 71.93seconds, 36 pts down for a total time of 89.93seconds.

I just shot the classifier match two days ago in 72.37s, but blew some of headshots landing me 71 pts down for a total of 107.83.

I know I can make M, just need to kill that tension that creeps in during the match.

-LG

BTW, TDean's time for stage one string six is f'ning incredible.

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My best (in CDP) was last April ... 135.79. I don't recall the details, but I had a buttload of "points down." I need to relearn that it takes as much time to miss as it does to hit.

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I finally made my break into EX when I started making hits in Stage 3. Closed one eye, actually focused on the front sight and got out of that stage only like 9pts down or something (as opposed to 20 or so...which was my previous usual). Have a fairly solid run for the other 2 stages and that did it.

- Gabe

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I found this old thread, looking to see what guys were shooting 2+1 in.

Going through some old camcorder tapes, I saw an ooooooold tape of myself shooting, at about the third match I ever shot back in 1998. It's pretty funny; I have this funky Gun Magazine / Seagal inspired half Chapman / Weaver stance going. It's not pretty. The game was was IDPA, and I was fresh out of the academy. We were shooting the classifier and I can hear the times on tape.

I was shooting stage 1, 2+1 "mozambique" drills in the mid to upper 2's. 2.55, 2.70, and 265 I think. First shots were in the 1.65 range.

I was hoping to make Expert, but had pushed too hard and missed it by 2 seconds. I remember thinking how I was on the edge of out of control, trying to make expert. I can remember not practicing, not sleeping well and just pushing the speed all day. A couple of months later, I got some dry fire, some rest and a time only 2 seconds off MASTER.

Anyway, on a whim I walked back to 7y at the range today, (seven years later) and hit three "mozambiques", just to see. First one went 1.31, then 1.28 then 1.35. Hell, I am finishing the drill faster than my old first shot!!!

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I will be shooting my first classifier in a couple of weeks. Is the classifier shot with a concealment garment? I can't seem to find the info anywhere in the rule book.

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I will be shooting my first classifier in a couple of weeks. Is the classifier shot with a concealment garment? I can't seem to find the info anywhere in the rule book.

You're right, it's not in the rulebook.

I asked HQ about it some time back: response on IDPA forum

Jane

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So you folks actually PRACTICE the classifier?

I can understand practicing the group shooting, barricade shooting, shooting on the move, etc. etc. as skills needed but not practising the classifier to get good at it.

I guess this is why I see experts and such getting thier butts handed to them in actual competition. They are good at the classifier but can't transition that to the field course. I think it would be better to be good at the techniques and fundementals and then let that show up in shooting the classifier.

I have also noticed that alot of IDPA shooters that are classified high (MA or EX) usually end up as B or C class in USPSA. Not trying to start an IDPA vs. IPSC war so don't even start it or I will smack you with this ruler. Was only mentiong it because could the "practising the classifier" be the cause since is a a static non changing classifier?

Steven

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I have also noticed that alot of IDPA shooters that are classified high (MA or EX) usually end up as B or C class in USPSA.

I agree but I think it's comparing apples and oranges. What it takes to win IDPA matches at the EX and MA level is not the same as what it takes to win in USPSA. I'm going through this transition myself and know it all to well. For me at least, I'm really enjoying the new challenges of USPSA. Now I'm moving to Open so I'm really shaking things up. ;)

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I have also noticed that alot of IDPA shooters that are classified high (MA or EX) usually end up as B or C class in USPSA.
Steve - FWIW, the only USPSA classifier I've shot, I came in at 49.something percent - about the middle of C (this was shooting seven round mags in L10 :P). I'm classified SS (all five flavors) in IDPA, and I expect that I'd end up in C in Production, L10 and Revolver. My experience is that most shooters end up being pretty much the same across the board.

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I was an EX / MA in IDPA when corssed over, before there was an L10. I shot the same exact gear, single stack Kimber with 8 rounders.

My second IPSC match ever was a special classifier, and I came in at 70.3% average. Solid "B", but a year from "A". And Two from Master.

Yes, I think most USPSA master and up shooters will classify the same going to IDPA but not the reverse.

Edited by dirtypool40

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My Last SSP Classifer pace.

Stage One

2.45

2.03

2.11

5.09

2.98

6.14

4.14

7pts down = 3.5

28.67 Total

Stage Two

3.92

4.10

8.56

4.86

9pts down = 4.5

25.94 Total

Stage 3

14.23

15.52

5.22

12pts down = 6

40.97

95.58 Total Score

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Kyle Farris SSP MA 96.25

Stage 1 - 25.32---13---0--- 31.82

Stage 2 - 17.38---16---0---25.38

Stage 3 - 28.05---22---0---39.05

70.75 in raw time, 51 points down, 25.50 seconds down

So many points down, as my gun was hitting low...about an inch or so below the circle. (I had a borrowed lower on my G35 upper and some factory ammo that I never use.) I didn't want to change my hold, as I had some other matches coming up and I would have my regular gear going for those. So, I just shot and let them hit where they wanted to hit.

I do know if that is good, bad, or ugly. (I wasn't very happy with the low hits. <_< Although they seemed to group well.)

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I don't have the scoresheet from the classifier match I shot last month but it ended up at 105.98 in ESR using my 4" 625. I had a miss on stage 3 and a miss on stage 2. 1st time I shot the classifier this year. Last year I shot it alot. Probably around 60 times with different guns. I consider it good shooting practice. This year I concentrated on USPSA getting only 3 IDPA matches in.

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