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Swing Through


Tangram

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Tonight, I was looking at a George Digweed video, George Digweed's Guide to Perfection in Sporting Clays. On all the targets he shot swing through. (Insert the gun behind the target and swing trough the front edge. Pull the trigger.) Started me wondering if any other first rank sporting clays shooters use this as their main techinque.

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The problem with swing through is that it is a timing dependent method. If you shoot a LOT and your timing is on there isn't a shot out there that you can't make. If you don't shoot enough or your timing is off on that particular day you will see a drastic decline in your percentage. Sustained lead is a tool that I think you NEED to learn, it is far less timing dependent and ultra reliable on targets where it makes sense to use it. You can't shoot everything with sustained lead but I think it is a tool you need to be a good clay target shooter.

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I shoot almost exclusively swing through but am quickly learning that it is not always the most consistent method. There were a couple of presentations at LA State Sporting Clays last weekend where a sustained lead was the ticket so I'll be trying to learn where the other methods need to be applied and how to use them.

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Swing through will probably work for most sporting clays shots since there is not the same known target appearance skeet and trap. Take an extra second to push the button and a lot of skeet and trap shooters won't shoot. The timing thing that Howard was talking about is did the target catch you in a blink and surprise you so that you had to swing faster on one shot than another therefore changing the apparent lead on a target.

Sustained lead works best for skeet where the target is starting from a known location and is traveling a known direction and distance every time. The Todd Bender video stresses this with every shot he makes, set up at this point, see the target, swing ahead and pull the trigger.

Trap is another story since the target appears at the same starting point every time but goes in a fan shaped direction. Therefore a sustained lead becomes more difficult when you don't know where the target is going. Since the target is rising until about half way through it's flight most trap guns pattern well above the point of aim so you never cover the target with the muzzle.

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I shoot low gun and swing through for 99% of my shooting. For long skeet type presentations on incoming birds I might use a sustained lead. So much of this shotgunning stuff is shot to shot dependant and how you first learned to shoot, its scary.

When I still shot skeet and 5-Stand 2-3 times a week, I had a pretty good average. Now days on a skeet field I would be lucky to hit 20 out of 25.

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If you don't know ALL the methods you are at a disadvantage. the hardest to teach and demonstrate is "revers lead"

Swing through is a very good method , <_< I think it may be the best.

I disagree about the Timing that H Smith says is important. plenty of shooters start with a swing through and end up sustained at the last fraction causing the -timing - to be important.

Swing Through is the most ...fun to me ;)

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I had a hell of a time getting past a mid 24's average in Skeet until I made a concerted effort to learn and use sustained lead, and every predictable target after that got a lot easier. I am not one of the guys that can show up and have any idea what my timing is like for that day, some guys have very repeatable timing. Like in golf, I don't know whether I am playing a draw or a fade until I hit a few, day to day it changes. Taking timing out of the games I have played has worked wonders for me, sustained lead for me is like a prep and press IPSC shot, knowing EXACTLY when the gun will fire is necessary for me to perform. Never could shoot a Benelli with the lock time measured on a sun dial for this reason alone. My vision is pretty consistent, my timing isn't. Measure, press and bang, I can deal with that.

I was a fairly decent clay target shooter at one time.....

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I shoot a fair amount of swing through, but it depends on the target presentation, speed, angle, etc.

Sustained lead can be easier on some targets. Even if you don't like it, there will be times you jump ahead of the target by mistake, and you'll have to shoot sustained lead. And sustained lead shooters having to come from behind, etc.

If you can't decide or it's confusing, you can "point" right at the target and then move ahead...Dan Carlyle teaches that technique I believe. :D

There's three to choose from now...Ha!

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All of the most proficient clays shooters can shoot what they need to depending on the circumstances, pass thru, sustained or pull ahead....you have to be able to do them all...Digweed might have said he shoot only pass thru, but I'd bet a nickle there was a smile on his face when he said that.

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HSMITH explained it well. On longer or harder shots, your timing has to be precise and consistent from day to day to use the swing through method.

I've been there, done that, and got more than one T-shirt. What I mean is I struggled with swing through and the Churchill method for years. I even shot low gun at American skeet. It didn't work for me.

Even if I could afford to shoot like the wealthy to stay in time with that method, I really don't see the point. Nevertheless, I use swing-through on several types of shots. Targets needing little lead like close quartering angles are perfect for swing through.

There is one killer to the sustained-lead method though. If you move the gun fast and push too far ahead, what are you going to do? Go back and meet it? Or, stop and wait on it? Both are losing battles.

In sustained lead you need to break the shot when you see the lead.

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  • 2 months later...

I had the good fortune to shoot with a lot of great shotgun shooters and teachers when training for years for the Sportsman's Team Challenge. And I experimented with about every way of breaking targets there is.

In the end I was the most consistent over the widest variety of targets with the move, mount, shoot method. Less time riding the target and looking for the "lead" equals more broken targets. In fact the harder the target got, the better that technique worked.

It was taught to me by the greatest shotgun coach I ever trained with, Steve Middleditch.

I remember the first day I was training with him, and I asked what kind of lead he'd give a certain target. He just started laughing hilariously, then he settled down enough to say "there is no "lead." As time went by... he never would talk about "lead," ever. It took me a couple years of shooting to learn what he meant by "there is no lead."

But then ironically, when you were consistently missing a target he'd yell out "double your lead."

About the only other thing he ever said was "look at the bird." So one year, at the Nationals, we had a T-shirt made for him that said:

Look at the bird!

Double your lead!

;)

He was a lot of fun to shoot with.

be

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Tonight, I was looking at a George Digweed video, George Digweed's Guide to Perfection in Sporting Clays. On all the targets he shot swing through. (Insert the gun behind the target and swing trough the front edge. Pull the trigger.) Started me wondering if any other first rank sporting clays shooters use this as their main techinque.

Digweed Does NOT shoot swing through on every target. he may think he does but he did not when I watched him a few years back.

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I dont think you will see one top sporting shooter that uses only 1 type of shot method, ie swing through, sustained lead, pull away etc. The shots are just too different and there is a time and place for each one. In skeet sustained lead is used by the vast majority of the top shooters. They might do one of the other methods on occasion but that is more of an oh S*it i messed up and need to fix it quick type things

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I dont think you will see one top sporting shooter that uses only 1 type of shot method, ie swing through, sustained lead, pull away etc. The shots are just too different and there is a time and place for each one. In skeet sustained lead is used by the vast majority of the top shooters. They might do one of the other methods on occasion but that is more of an oh S*it i messed up and need to fix it quick type things

Digweed? Darn I thought of him as a top sporting clays competitor? Digweed misrepresents how he actually shoots?

When I started this thread I did not do a good job of making my question clear. I was wondering if any other top shooter than Digweed claims swing through was the way to go.

I have personally messed around with swing through, pull away, sustained, and oooh too far ahead stop methods. I'll scarcely mention look at the barrel stop or figure eight method.

However, when I shoot best I checkout where I see the clay(s) and an approximate area to break it/them. From this comes stance(s) and hold point(s). Actual shooting look at the bird, look at the bird, really really look, look sharply with a quiet mind and pull the trigger when it feels right. This actually works well. My main concern now is day to day consistent execution. For a while I use a signature of eyes first working on that too. And...

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Consistency really is the key. That is what lead me down the path of many tens of thousands of rounds trying to figure out the 'trick'. I don't claim to be an expert, but I have shot a lot and I shot fairly well. My advise is this: If the target is in view long enough on a somewhat consistent path shoot sustained lead. Your vision isn't timing dependent, it is far more consistent day to day than anything you have. You can do a prep and press just like a tight shot in a USPSA match and you can be very accurate. Generally, sustained lead will get the vast majority of the targets broken. Everything else is where the other methods come in, spot shooting, swing through, pull away, etc. The other targets are going to separate the very best shooters from very good shooters. Skeet is cheap, and if you buy a "squad" at the gun club you can shoot 125 targets any way you want anywhere you want on the field. Take care of the thrower and you will be golden. Shooting 125 rounds at a specific target presentation is a good practice regimen, mix it up over time to cover the common bases and it will allow you to shoot just about any shot you might run into other than springing targets and battue targets. You can go to the local sporting club and buy an entire round on just one of them or just those two targets and that is extremely helpful. If I were you I would shoot skeet until I was well up in the 90's using sustained lead for the majority of my practice and just shoot enough sporting to keep you happy. Jump from club to club if you can, break up the routine and more importantly the background. When you can step on the skeet field any time and anywhere and shoot mid to upper 90's start pressing the other methods. Skeet is far cheaper and far more efficient for practice, like the driving range for golf. You can pound a hundred balls in an hour with PURPOSE on the driving range, playing golf you are looking at 70-100 individual shots that are all different over the course of 4 hours. Fundamentals require quality repetition.

The old guys that shoot skeet together at certain clubs on certain days are also extremely fun to shoot with, shoot with them when you can and get to know them, that is the aspect of shotgunning I really miss.

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They are shooting whatever method works best for the given target presentation. Sporting is so varied one method isnt the best for every shot out there. In skeet etc it is easy to use the sustained only technique do to the target presentations that they offer. Watch him on a good long crosser the gun is a sustained lead shot.

There are people that shoot differently that their videos show. Prime example is Todd Benders skeet video. In the video is is leaning forward a little but but not a whole lot. When he actually shoots is is leaning WAYYY out there in alot more aggressive stance that in his video.

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All of the most proficient clays shooters can shoot what they need to depending on the circumstances, pass thru, sustained or pull ahead....you have to be able to do them all...Digweed might have said he shoot only pass thru, but I'd bet a nickle there was a smile on his face when he said that.

Bingo!!!

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Tonight, I was looking at a George Digweed video, George Digweed's Guide to Perfection in Sporting Clays. On all the targets he shot swing through. (Insert the gun behind the target and swing trough the front edge. Pull the trigger.) Started me wondering if any other first rank sporting clays shooters use this as their main techinque.

Digweed Does NOT shoot swing through on every target. he may think he does but he did not when I watched him a few years back.

After I got good enough to tell what technique a coach was actually using on a particular targe, I remember a couple world class Sporting Clays shooters / instructors who didn't actually shoot they method they thought they did, and were "teaching." :o

Besides breaking targets, one of the coolest tricks I learned was how to tell where a shooter was missing a target, just by standing beside him and watching the relationship of his barrel and the target as it was flying through the air. I still distinctly remember the first time it happened. I was standing to the right of shooter that just missed a shot. And it was holy crap! He was behind that target! I knew it for sure.

It was then that I realized how Steve could get me to break a target I couldn't. He'd hold my shotgun's forearm - and actually moving it for me. He would get it in the right spot and then say "shoot"! How the hell he could do that I didn't know until that day.

be

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Tonight, I was looking at a George Digweed video, George Digweed's Guide to Perfection in Sporting Clays. On all the targets he shot swing through. (Insert the gun behind the target and swing trough the front edge. Pull the trigger.) Started me wondering if any other first rank sporting clays shooters use this as their main techinque.

Digweed Does NOT shoot swing through on every target. he may think he does but he did not when I watched him a few years back.

After I got good enough to tell what technique a coach was actually using on a particular targe, I remember a couple world class Sporting Clays shooters / instructors who didn't actually shoot they method they thought they did, and were "teaching." :o

Besides breaking targets, one of the coolest tricks I learned was how to tell where a shooter was missing a target, just by standing beside him and watching the relationship of his barrel and the target as it was flying through the air. I still distinctly remember the first time it happened. I was standing to the right of shooter that just missed a shot. And it was holy crap! He was behind that target! I knew it for sure.

It was then that I realized how Steve could get me to break a target I couldn't. He'd hold my shotgun's forearm - and actually moving it for me. He would get it in the right spot and then say "shoot"! How the hell he could do that I didn't know until that day.

be

I appreciate the responses. It may well be true that Digweed does not really shoot swing through all the time. The only evidence I have is what he said on a video and the "eye cam" portions of the DVD did clearly show swing through. I fear I use all styles of shooting including oh dang I'm behind it. I have not yet stood behind enough folks to see if I see where they are shooting. However, I am breaking more clays more consistently... :)

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