outerlimits Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 (edited) shooting classifier 03-11 where you turn, then draw. young junior shooter turns slightly and draws. i'm guessing we're talking about 220 degrees. i know i saw the bore and just winced. checked my drawers and shot next. they stopped him and then later in the day (i was doing stats), i run into him and he's still shooting! powers that be decided a kid needed a break, i guess. hell, i shoulda DQ'd him right there... Edited September 29, 2008 by outerlimits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 he's still shooting! powers that be decided a kid needed a break The club and its RO's set a bad precedent. Just because he is "young" and "new" does not make him exempt. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 If the call was made , Match Director should have stuck to it. Sure we all hate DQ'ing folks , especially new folks. But , in order to keep this a safe sport we should adhere to these rules. Most folks understand this and harbor no ill feeling when DQ'd and consider it a good lesson learned. When some folks are given a break they may expect more breaks in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandbagger Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 ive seen one today too, checked my pants after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Juniors are welcome on the field of honor, but part of the responsibility of using a real gun is behaving according to adult standards. Holding juniors to a lower standard on a safety/DQ issue does not serve anyone's interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Gwinn Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 No, and he'd have remembered it forever if he'd been DQ'ed. Would have been a cheap safety lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDRODA396 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 ... and he'd have remembered it forever if he'd been DQ'ed. Would have been a cheap safety lesson. Not to mention he could have spent the rest of the day observing and learning without the "distraction" of shooting....definately worth enforcing the rules regardless of the age of the "offender!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 The MD should be DQd along with the shooter for letting him continue to shoot. Play by all the rules or don't play. Safety should be #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I know how you feel. It is especially not fun when the person holding the gun is a cop and they whine about being DQ'ed - so the MD (non-IPSC) lets them keep shooting, because "everyone is there to have fun". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bell Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I know how you feel. It is especially not fun when the person holding the gun is a cop and they whine about being DQ'ed - so the MD (non-IPSC) lets them keep shooting, because "everyone is there to have fun". Did you hand the timer to the MD and tell him to have fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Agree with Greg Bell. Profession does not matter. If the shooters doing unsafe things then DQ him/her and be done with it. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I have mixed feelings on this. I was Ro'ing a new shooter a couple weeks ago. It was a 3 string stage. He bent over to pick up a mag and thinking he was pointing to the ground he pointed the gun right at my leg. I pulled him a side, no need to embarrass him in front of everybody, and sternly made it clear that the single most important issue he needed to be focused on is where the muzzle is pointing, that everything else was secondary to that. I told him next time it would be a DQ. Maybe he will be back. I doubt he would be if I DQ'd him. Now this goes back to the first time I shot a match at Ashland Gun Club. I dropped my mag and bent over to pick it up, turning around looking for it. Yes I did a complete circle. The gun was pointed at the ground the whole time. The RO was none other than Gary Stevens. He looked at me like "what the hell are you doing?". Gave me pretty much the same talk and I came back and have always been aware of muzzle direction since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 WOW Butch! You're definitely better than me and I like to think I'm pretty generous to newbies and juniors. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I gave a new competitor that talk once. A few months later I he swept me with the muzzle of his loaded 45. I don't think it's a good choice to fudge on the safety rules. The DQ needs to be called, but it needs to be handled well. If the shooter can't take responsibility for it, then they aren't ready to be around us. I know clubs that get reputations for fudging on the safety rules. Think how that plays out. They end up with the tried and true shooters...not coming around anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I know how you feel. It is especially not fun when the person holding the gun is a cop and they whine about being DQ'ed - so the MD (non-IPSC) lets them keep shooting, because "everyone is there to have fun". Did you hand the timer to the MD and tell him to have fun? I did walk. Then I got flammed without mercy for months on a certain internet forum, because I dared to speak out on what I viewed as major safety problem with this particular shooting event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I gave a new competitor that talk once. A few months later I he swept me with the muzzle of his loaded 45.I don't think it's a good choice to fudge on the safety rules. The DQ needs to be called, but it needs to be handled well. If the shooter can't take responsibility for it, then they aren't ready to be around us. I know clubs that get reputations for fudging on the safety rules. Think how that plays out. They end up with the tried and true shooters...not coming around anymore. Putting my lawyer hat on (I got it at the Holiday Inn Express), from a legal POV, it is a very very good idea to enforce the safety rules. Imagine what would happen if you allowed someone to continue to shoot after the violated a safety rule and should have been DQ'ed, and then, later during the match, that same person injured themselves or someone else? Do you think that the club's or sanctioning body's insurance company is going to provide coverage? Worse, do you think that you as the RO (who should have DQ'ed the person) is going to be able to successfully defend a negligence suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bell Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I did walk... Good for you that would suck to get over ruled on an obvious safety call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 WOW Butch! You're definitely better than me and I like to think I'm pretty generous to newbies and juniors.Rich rich-i wasn't running the clock-i was on deck. if it was me, the young man would have been home watching the 49er game. believe me, i will be having a talk with the person that changed the call. on the upside, i did break out a new pair of underwear that evening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John2A Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 First match first stage was sent home for sweeping my leg. I was like huh how else are you supposed to run with a gun. It has been three years and I have never done that since. I praticed for a month in the garage running with the gun up. Helped me more than anything I have ever done. Also been DQ'ed for 180 actually called it on myself and have knock on wood not done that either. I think the junior should have been DQ'ed you have to learn from your mistakes and the rules are there for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomasterblaster Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Safety has to be job one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I think the fastest I've ever hit the deck was when a shooter turned uprange coming out of a window to run down a wall section parallel to the rear fault line . The poor stats guy just froze . Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 First match first stage was sent home for sweeping my leg. Was the sweep when you were drawing? Or were you actually running and had the gun point at your leg as you ran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I have mixed feelings on this. I was Ro'ing a new shooter a couple weeks ago. It was a 3 string stage. He bent over to pick up a mag and thinking he was pointing to the ground he pointed the gun right at my leg. I pulled him a side, no need to embarrass him in front of everybody, and sternly made it clear that the single most important issue he needed to be focused on is where the muzzle is pointing, that everything else was secondary to that. I told him next time it would be a DQ. Maybe he will be back. I doubt he would be if I DQ'd him. Chuck, I'm certain that many of us completely agree with your view on this, although it's not a politically correct position to take on this particular forum. Brand new shooters need to be handled carefully, on several different levels. Yes, safety must come first, but I'm not sure it always takes a DQ for a brand new shooter to learn the lesson. None of our stringent safety rules will matter much in a few years if we run all the new shooters out of the sport. Or so it seems to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin D Wolverton Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 We had one DQ at our 2-day match. New shooter (he said his first match). His first stage, draws and bang... shot the ground right in front of the shooting box (just about 3 feet in front of himself). The RO calls me over and tells me he DQ'd the guy under 10.4.2 (and then proceeds to go change his drawers). I did the same thing that I always do in this situation. I confirmed the DQ, and then went straight to the competitor and had a chat with him. Talked about the importance of safety on the range, and that being why we have an certified RO on each stage with a rulebook. I've found that if you talk to the shooter (especially the new ones) when you DQ them, they tend to take it better. ESPECIALLY if they understand exactly why it happened and what they can do to not have it happen again. The guy stuck around all day, pasted and set steel. Had one last year where a guy had a jam, and as he cleared it, send a shot over the berm. DQ'd him (10.4.1 ; 10.4.4 ; 10.5.8). Same thing, same results. As I was talking to him, the next shooter (another new guy) steps into the box, draws and loads without RO direction. The other RO on the stage sent him home as well (10.5.1). He understood. Said he just had a "brain fart." Hey... it happens Both of those later two guys still shoot at our range every month. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I got DQ'd this year at VA-MD sectional for breaking the 180 during a reload. With the unreal heat and humidity at that match, my better judgement was impaired and I wasn't being a safe or conciencous shooter. The RO and CRO both were gracious and explained it and apologized, but I screwed up and knew it. I put my fellow shooters and myself at risk and the RO did their job. I consider it one of the most important lessons I've learned since I started competing. I should have DNF'D, but tried to push too hard while feeling sick. I'm glad it happened without anyone getting hurt. I'm a much wiser shooter and it'll be the last time for me. Point being is that the rules are inflexible and should be. You screw up, you're done. This isn't Bridge... we are playing a game that is already controversial with the anti's and an accident will have serious repercussions. RO's have a responsibility to the entire game to DQ shooters that break the rules -- failure to do so could be fatal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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