-JQ- Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Not too gun related...maybe should be a hate rant... Short story - I recently had a couple of "mini-strokes" Apparently I have a PFO which is a hole between chambers in the heart...and not that uncommon - it is there from birth and usually seals up in most folks. Anyway it seems this is a short circuit thruough the heart allowing some "dirty" blood to skip the lungs (which not only oxygenate the blood but also filter out "Stuff"). So small clots that would be normally filtered pass through. Today had a transesphopgeal echocardiogram (sp) and they found the hole...neat huh? There seem to be two routes coumadin, which is what the insurance people would prefer - I WOULD NOT. and the other is a catheter inserted patch/balloon that gets stuffed in the hole in the heart wall and is left behind. Many people don't find out until they are older so blood thinner is a preferred route. I on the other hand am an active 41 YO mountain biker and have several activities in which I frequently bleed, sweat and generally get banged up...MTB being the main "letter" of blood and my main source of exercise - I see some serious cross training coming up though... Anyway not sure why I got on this rant here on BE other than to see if anyone else has had a hole patched. I looking forward to seeing a difference in performance after the patch as some of the docs have been somewhat dismissive about the "Stroke symptoms" due to age and fitness level bp usually around 120/80 and resting heart rate the other day on EKG was 53 bpm... I'm still doing research on this one...so I'm not sure what else will turn up for treatment... on a "brighter" note I think I sold my X5 Tactical - now the wait for my X5 Comp to return from GGI gets even harder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Sounds scary to me... I think I would get several opinions as to what is the best solution and would most certainly not rely on the insurance companies advises... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I have a great big long story about Coumadin that isn't very happy, you're welcome to send me a PM if you want details. Avoid it if you can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 You might want to poke around some scuba sites and DAN-- when I was active in that the PFO was becoming a point of interest for decompression issues. I never looked into it further since they checked me when they had my heart out for a tuneup 30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 My fiance had this. She elected to go with a new procedure at the time (3-4 years ago) to patch the hole. The doc went in with 2 'robots' they nicknamed 'beavis' and 'butthead' through incisions in her bikini line, under her armpit, and directly through her sternum. Long story short, she hasn't recovered fully as they expected, and will be on blood thinners presumably for the rest of her life. A very small scratch is a concern. She still gets mini strokes but their frequency seems to be decreasing. She also suffers from pleurisy when she gets stressed out for an extended number of days. She does get winded after a couple flights of stairs and exercises with 3 lb weights max when she can. She can shoot about 5 rounds from my limited gun before the muzzle starts to dip. None of this was helped by the fact that she was prescribed massive doses of prednizone (before they found out that it sucked) for the pain during recovery. The doctors have since found that this type of procedure yields very good results for larger male patients but not so great for smaller women. Don't know if this helps or not but it is what it is for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 You might want to poke around some scuba sites and DAN-- when I was active in that the PFO was becoming a point of interest for decompression issues. I never looked into it further since they checked me when they had my heart out for a tuneup 30 years ago. Yup, the hole gives blood a path around the lungs so the some of thee blood can not outgass the nitrogen. very bad. I just saw a show on the little patch thingie that they push through the hole and it opens up like an umbrella on both sides. Pretty amazing. Here is one of the articles on the DAN website: http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/...sp?articleid=70 Take Care, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) My fiance had this. She elected to go with a new procedure at the time (3-4 years ago) to patch the hole. The doc went in with 2 'robots' they nicknamed 'beavis' and 'butthead' through incisions in her bikini line, under her armpit, and directly through her sternum. Long story short, she hasn't recovered fully as they expected, and will be on blood thinners presumably for the rest of her life. A very small scratch is a concern. She still gets mini strokes but their frequency seems to be decreasing. She also suffers from pleurisy when she gets stressed out for an extended number of days. She does get winded after a couple flights of stairs and exercises with 3 lb weights max when she can. She can shoot about 5 rounds from my limited gun before the muzzle starts to dip. None of this was helped by the fact that she was prescribed massive doses of prednizone (before they found out that it sucked) for the pain during recovery. The doctors have since found that this type of procedure yields very good results for larger male patients but not so great for smaller women. Don't know if this helps or not but it is what it is for us. Thanks Al503. That is good to know...sorry to hear about her progress. I'm actually kind of glad to have a specific thing to focus on as opposed to not knowing overall. Yeah I don't think I would to Coumadin even if they said to. Aspirin is enough of a thinner IMHO...and that overall seems like a dumb way to solve the problem anyway - thinning the blood would make it pass through the hole more readily - just maybe less chunks floating around to clog up and stroke me out??? I'm no Dr. and not the biggest fan of the AMA/FDApharma-system anyway - for all the good they do I'm thankful...just leery. I've got a bunch of reading to do. Thanks for the dive info too. Interesting article on the "occluder" I still think this will be the thing for me. The hole opens more with strain and MTB'ing is all about strain and pain... Edited September 25, 2008 by hk_mtbr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickRak2000 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Not too gun related...maybe should be a hate rant...Short story - I recently had a couple of "mini-strokes" Apparently I have a PFO which is a hole between chambers in the heart...and not that uncommon - it is there from birth and usually seals up in most folks. Anyway it seems this is a short circuit thruough the heart allowing some "dirty" blood to skip the lungs (which not only oxygenate the blood but also filter out "Stuff"). So small clots that would be normally filtered pass through. Today had a transesphopgeal echocardiogram (sp) and they found the hole...neat huh? There seem to be two routes coumadin, which is what the insurance people would prefer - I WOULD NOT. and the other is a catheter inserted patch/balloon that gets stuffed in the hole in the heart wall and is left behind. Many people don't find out until they are older so blood thinner is a preferred route. I on the other hand am an active 41 YO mountain biker and have several activities in which I frequently bleed, sweat and generally get banged up...MTB being the main "letter" of blood and my main source of exercise - I see some serious cross training coming up though... Anyway not sure why I got on this rant here on BE other than to see if anyone else has had a hole patched. I looking forward to seeing a difference in performance after the patch as some of the docs have been somewhat dismissive about the "Stroke symptoms" due to age and fitness level bp usually around 120/80 and resting heart rate the other day on EKG was 53 bpm... I'm still doing research on this one...so I'm not sure what else will turn up for treatment... on a "brighter" note I think I sold my X5 Tactical - now the wait for my X5 Comp to return from GGI gets even harder... I've heard that a significant number of Migrane sufferers have been shown to have a PFO...and when it's repaired, their headaches are minimized. Something to do with the less oxygenated blood going back up into the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 When you have a hole in your heart you get incorrect bloodflow in your heart. This can lead to clots forming in the heart. The Coumadin is a profolaxis. While it won't actually help with your heart condition, it will help prevent strokes. It will also prevent a pulmonary embolism. Was diagnosed with A-fib in 03. The irregular heartbeat can cause the same problem. Coumadin is a bummer, but if you get the dosage right, it can be okay. But, it was the reason I too gave up road riding for three years. My new cardiologist has a different approach, seems to be workin, that is another story. Definitely get a second opinion, but do not be suprised if you get the same one from someone else. The issue is your health, not your ego. Sometimes what we want to hear is not what we should hear. Not trying to get you p'off, just saying be careful. JZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 When I was a surgical resident, we had a truck driver come in with a blood clot in his femoral artery. To make a long story short, he ended up losing his leg after a lengthy operation and a trip to the University of Michigan. The docs at the UofM discovered a PFO. He had DVT's in his legs, they travelled up to his heart, through the PFO and back down to his legs. Luckily, he didn't have a stroke or a pulmonary embolism. I believe his PFO ended up saving his life, but his lawyers filed a lawsuit anyways. Fortunately, there was another resident on the case with the last name of Martinson. I was never named in the lawsuit. Perhaps they thought we were the same person? I made sure not to point out the mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 I made sure not to point out the mistake! Good move...better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it... I'm meeting w/ a special cardiologist next week. To the O2 point above...this is one reason I'm excited to get on with it...how much have I been missing when riding if I can only get x% O2 pumped out??? ...I feel like I have a slow leak in my inner tube... Maybe if I get this patched up I can make the (sr.) Olympics someday!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb45acp Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 All I can say is try to avoid the Coumadin if you are going to continue Mt Biking, etc. There are few things uglier then the CT of a head trauma pt on Comadin. If you do go that route PLEASE wear a helment if you don't already. Talk to the Cardiologist, get a second opinion, and do what you feel is best for you and screw the insurance company. Good luck and prayers snet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 My wife does! And My daughter does...at least when I am not home. ( 8 year olds are great in this respect but I am SURE this will change in the next few years!). I have been on my wife to see about something other than cumaden (sp.??) for years. After she had triplets in 1999 she has had a hole in her heart....maybe before but it wasn't documented. Head aches are what caused her to seek an answer after the 3 banditos were born. I worry everyday that I am away from home! If anyone has some kind of resolution I would be gratefull to hear, I like the idea of a "parachute" in the heart wall, but I am not sure I want to give up my wife if indead the procedure fails. I am scared for her as I am for you. Sometimes life sucks!! KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted September 26, 2008 Author Share Posted September 26, 2008 My wife does! And My daughter does...at least when I am not home. ( 8 year olds are great in this respect but I am SURE this will change in the next few years!). I have been on my wife to see about something other than cumaden (sp.??) for years. After she had triplets in 1999 she has had a hole in her heart....maybe before but it wasn't documented. Head aches are what caused her to seek an answer after the 3 banditos were born. I worry everyday that I am away from home! If anyone has some kind of resolution I would be gratefull to hear, I like the idea of a "parachute" in the heart wall, but I am not sure I want to give up my wife if indead the procedure fails. I am scared for her as I am for you. Sometimes life sucks!! KurtM Kurt- I hate to hear that. It is tough worrying about someone like that all the time too...caregivers are in a tough position...My late wife had lupus and finally cancer so I can relate to the constant worry. Be sure you do something to release your stress - like - shooting maybe. dsb - I do plan to keep on riding...and I can't ride anywhere without my helmet. I feel totally naked without it. We also refuse to ride with people who won't wear a helmet. Sure enough it is their choice. But we are the ones who would half to deal with getting their dumb a$$ out of the woods. I tend to go through helmets about once every two years...sometimes shorter. Not that I smash them all but they need to be replaced after a decent crash...and I'm good for one at least every couple of years...and fortunately I ride for a local shop and get good prices on the top of the line helmets...not that I comprimise on quality with my lid - but I'd rather pay $80 for a $200 helmet if i can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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