HK 91 Question

[JustShootOK]

I am contemplating purchasing a HK 91, saw one for sale , I can get it for 900.00. Excellent shape!

what I would like to know is would I be better off building up a .308 AR? I would like to have a long range semi-auto sniper weapon, any advice or experience would be appreciated regarding this weapon as well as comparisons to AR variants. Thanks!!

[chuckbradley]

I am contemplating purchasing a HK 91, saw one for sale , I can get it for 900.00. Excellent shape!

what I would like to know is would I be better off building up a .308 AR? I would like to have a long range semi-auto sniper weapon, any advice or experience would be appreciated regarding this weapon as well as comparisons to AR variants. Thanks!!

My information may be outdated but if its an orginal HK then I think its a steel at that price. Some of the cheap knock offs were going for 500.00 a while back. They may be around 900.00 now. Originals were going over 2k last i looked at them so I cant imagine them dropping that much. I have one so i hope not.

[-JQ-]

I'm a BIG HK fan BTW...

If you can find a real HK91 for $900 buy it. I'll give you a grand :-) Be careful of clones (Century, Hesse, CIA etc) they typically aren't worth $300 for the head aches. PTR/JLD makes nice clones and will be roughly in the $1k range depending on build. These are nicely built machines. I have one that was converted by Vector into an HK51...but it is a clone. The REAL HK's run and run and run - clones even the good ones just aren't the same for me.

Real HK91's run around $2K plus or minus. I wouldn't call it a sniper rifle but will reach out with consistency...but typically not MOA...effective yes...competitive - depends on what you are shooting. Even the PSG1 (true sniper variant) is just a really good sniper but for that cash ($15K) you could have a box full of Accuracy Internationals...if you have a small box.

If you are looking for something to hunt with in the swamps or frozen tundra the HK91 wouldn't let you down. They are like tanks...and weigh like tanks. The first thing people ALWAYS say when they picke mine up was "Man that is heavy"

...AR's are light weight and have more possible mall-ninja accessories available to be sure.

I would be interested in more details on that 91 if you feel like sharing...

[JustShootOK]

I'm a BIG HK fan BTW...

If you can find a real HK91 for $900 buy it. I'll give you a grand :-) Be careful of clones (Century, Hesse, CIA etc) they typically aren't worth $300 for the head aches. PTR/JLD makes nice clones and will be roughly in the $1k range depending on build. These are nicely built machines. I have one that was converted by Vector into an HK51...but it is a clone. The REAL HK's run and run and run - clones even the good ones just aren't the same for me.

Real HK91's run around $2K plus or minus. I wouldn't call it a sniper rifle but will reach out with consistency...but typically not MOA...effective yes...competitive - depends on what you are shooting. Even the PSG1 (true sniper variant) is just a really good sniper but for that cash ($15K) you could have a box full of Accuracy Internationals...if you have a small box.

If you are looking for something to hunt with in the swamps or frozen tundra the HK91 wouldn't let you down. They are like tanks...and weigh like tanks. The first thing people ALWAYS say when they picke mine up was "Man that is heavy"

...AR's are light weight and have more possible mall-ninja accessories available to be sure.

I would be interested in more details on that 91 if you feel like sharing...

Thanks, I will get more details on it next week and share...

[JustShootOK]

I am contemplating purchasing a HK 91, saw one for sale , I can get it for 900.00. Excellent shape!

what I would like to know is would I be better off building up a .308 AR? I would like to have a long range semi-auto sniper weapon, any advice or experience would be appreciated regarding this weapon as well as comparisons to AR variants. Thanks!!

My information may be outdated but if its an orginal HK then I think its a steel at that price. Some of the cheap knock offs were going for 500.00 a while back. They may be around 900.00 now. Originals were going over 2k last i looked at them so I cant imagine them dropping that much. I have one so i hope not.

Any thing inparticular I need to look at? I will make sure it is a real HK, strip it down ad inspect it,

[GIO]

I would bet that is not a real HK unless someone's soon to be ex-wife is selling it. They were about 900 new back in the mid-eighties. They run over 2k now.

[kurtm]

If you are looking into having a semi auto long range rifle DO NOT look to the H&K for your needs. The H&K would be a great investment if indeed it is a real H&K ( see all the above) but as a long range rifle it would blow! Here is why.

1. It is hard to get a good scope mount and the reall good ones are 3-4X the amount of a comprable AR-10 mount system.

2. Once mounted on the H&K rifle the scope sits WAY too high. You would need some kind of cheek peice to raise your head to get a consistent stock weld, or buy a specialty stock which costs cubic dollars, and if your scope had a B.C. of some kind it would be all fubared due to the scope to bore offset of the H&K type mount.

3. the barrel isn't free-floated so any type of bi-pod you put on it ( once again a specialty item ) will effect the point of impact/point of aim.

4. Once you get an optic, mount and bi-pod on an H&K you will have a 14# gun+. You will now need a transport system to carry it ( semi jokiing here.)

5. Barrel is short 18" compared to a 20" or 24" AR-10 so your velocity would be less causing less than optimal performance at longer ranges.

For the same kind of $ you can get a DPMS Panther Long Range, a Semi-Auto rifle VERY capable of 1/2" M.O.A. from the ones I have seen. I would get one with a fluted barrel, as the standard one is fairly heavy also. KurtM

[-JQ-]

I would bet that is not a real HK unless someone's soon to be ex-wife is selling it. They were about 900 new back in the mid-eighties. They run over 2k now.

See if she has a HK94 for $1000...I'll give you $1500 for that one

The clone receivers won't say H&K on the side of the magwell. There should also be a two letter date code like "IB" for 81. HK parts (proofed parts) tend to have this type of date coding. They may not all be the same year parts. An "IC" date code gun may have "IB" date code parts and still be original to the gun...even furniture will have it.

Of course the A3 (collapsable stock) is worth $200-300 alone...so the little things can add up...ask for accessories...

IMPORTANT: HK91/G3 magazines are THE cheapest of any battle rifle. You can find them (20 rounders) all day long for <$5 each. I bought a NIW for $15 once just because I was in a bind...but it was fresh.

Here is a great place for all things HK -- lots of details, date codes etc.

And here are their forums with many of THE people in the know.

Good luck!

Edited September 21, 2008 by hk_mtbr

[JustShootOK]

If you are looking into having a semi auto long range rifle DO NOT look to the H&K for your needs. The H&K would be a great investment if indeed it is a real H&K ( see all the above) but as a long range rifle it would blow! Here is why.

1. It is hard to get a good scope mount and the reall good ones are 3-4X the amount of a comprable AR-10 mount system.

2. Once mounted on the H&K rifle the scope sits WAY too high. You would need some kind of cheek peice to raise your head to get a consistent stock weld, or buy a specialty stock which costs cubic dollars, and if your scope had a B.C. of some kind it would be all fubared due to the scope to bore offset of the H&K type mount.

3. the barrel isn't free-floated so any type of bi-pod you put on it ( once again a specialty item ) will effect the point of impact/point of aim.

4. Once you get an optic, mount and bi-pod on an H&K you will have a 14# gun+. You will now need a transport system to carry it ( semi jokiing here.)

5. Barrel is short 18" compared to a 20" or 24" AR-10 so your velocity would be less causing less than optimal performance at longer ranges.

For the same kind of $ you can get a DPMS Panther Long Range, a Semi-Auto rifle VERY capable of 1/2" M.O.A. from the ones I have seen. I would get one with a fluted barrel, as the standard one is fairly heavy also. KurtM

This is excellent feedback, Kurt, thank you! If it is a real HK, it would be a great deal at face value, I totally understand your points on why it may not be the kind of platform I seek. I will get the scoop next week!!! Thanks agian. Edited September 21, 2008 by JustShootOK

[-JQ-]

If you are looking into having a semi auto long range rifle DO NOT look to the H&K for your needs. The H&K would be a great investment if indeed it is a real H&K ( see all the above) but as a long range rifle it would blow! Here is why.

1. It is hard to get a good scope mount and the reall good ones are 3-4X the amount of a comprable AR-10 mount system.

2. Once mounted on the H&K rifle the scope sits WAY too high. You would need some kind of cheek peice to raise your head to get a consistent stock weld, or buy a specialty stock which costs cubic dollars, and if your scope had a B.C. of some kind it would be all fubared due to the scope to bore offset of the H&K type mount.

3. the barrel isn't free-floated so any type of bi-pod you put on it ( once again a specialty item ) will effect the point of impact/point of aim.

4. Once you get an optic, mount and bi-pod on an H&K you will have a 14# gun+. You will now need a transport system to carry it ( semi jokiing here.)

5. Barrel is short 18" compared to a 20" or 24" AR-10 so your velocity would be less causing less than optimal performance at longer ranges.

For the same kind of $ you can get a DPMS Panther Long Range, a Semi-Auto rifle VERY capable of 1/2" M.O.A. from the ones I have seen. I would get one with a fluted barrel, as the standard one is fairly heavy also. KurtM

I would like to argue these points...but can't.

[kurtm]

For the record, The very same points I make about the H&K are the exact same points I would make about M1As, and FALs. Now if you are talking about shooting an Iron sight MAJOR rifle, My opinion would change a bit....M1A...M1A...M1A...M1A..repeat as necessary KurtM

[Derek45]

If you are looking into having a semi auto long range rifle DO NOT look to the H&K for your needs. The H&K would be a great investment if indeed it is a real H&K ( see all the above) but as a long range rifle it would blow! Here is why.

1. It is hard to get a good scope mount and the reall good ones are 3-4X the amount of a comprable AR-10 mount system.

2. Once mounted on the H&K rifle the scope sits WAY too high. You would need some kind of cheek peice to raise your head to get a consistent stock weld, or buy a specialty stock which costs cubic dollars, and if your scope had a B.C. of some kind it would be all fubared due to the scope to bore offset of the H&K type mount.

3. the barrel isn't free-floated so any type of bi-pod you put on it ( once again a specialty item ) will effect the point of impact/point of aim.

4. Once you get an optic, mount and bi-pod on an H&K you will have a 14# gun+. You will now need a transport system to carry it ( semi jokiing here.)

5. Barrel is short 18" compared to a 20" or 24" AR-10 so your velocity would be less causing less than optimal performance at longer ranges.

For the same kind of $ you can get a DPMS Panther Long Range, a Semi-Auto rifle VERY capable of 1/2" M.O.A. from the ones I have seen. I would get one with a fluted barrel, as the standard one is fairly heavy also. KurtM

+1

Also betting it's not an actual HK.

[Bryan 45]

If it's an HK, buy it for $900, sell it for $1500 (it would go pretty quick for $1500), and buy a DPMS or Rock River LAR8. You'll have enough money left over for decent glass!

[Rob Boudrie]

My information may be outdated but if its an orginal HK then I think its a steel at that price.

If it's an original HK it's definitely steel, and probably a steal as well

If you want a tough battle rifle, or a great collectable, get the HK. If you want a long distance tack driver a well built AR10 will outshoot the HK. I have a JP LRP-07 and had no problem keeping all shots on target with a Leupold 4.5-14x scope at 100 yards. Being the cheap sort that I am, I was using target pasters for targets.

[chuckbradley]

My information may be outdated but if its an orginal HK then I think its a steel at that price.

If it's an original HK it's definitely steel, and probably a steal as well

If you want a tough battle rifle, or a great collectable, get the HK. If you want a long distance tack driver a well built AR10 will outshoot the HK. I have a JP LRP-07 and had no problem keeping all shots on target with a Leupold 4.5-14x scope at 100 yards. Being the cheap sort that I am, I was using target pasters for targets.

You got me Rob.

[Fortyforfun]

If you are looking into having a semi auto long range rifle DO NOT look to the H&K for your needs. The H&K would be a great investment if indeed it is a real H&K ( see all the above) but as a long range rifle it would blow! Here is why.

1. It is hard to get a good scope mount and the reall good ones are 3-4X the amount of a comprable AR-10 mount system.

2. Once mounted on the H&K rifle the scope sits WAY too high. You would need some kind of cheek peice to raise your head to get a consistent stock weld, or buy a specialty stock which costs cubic dollars, and if your scope had a B.C. of some kind it would be all fubared due to the scope to bore offset of the H&K type mount.

3. the barrel isn't free-floated so any type of bi-pod you put on it ( once again a specialty item ) will effect the point of impact/point of aim.

4. Once you get an optic, mount and bi-pod on an H&K you will have a 14# gun+. You will now need a transport system to carry it ( semi jokiing here.)

5. Barrel is short 18" compared to a 20" or 24" AR-10 so your velocity would be less causing less than optimal performance at longer ranges.

For the same kind of $ you can get a DPMS Panther Long Range, a Semi-Auto rifle VERY capable of 1/2" M.O.A. from the ones I have seen. I would get one with a fluted barrel, as the standard one is fairly heavy also. KurtM

Actually, the barrel is free-floated. The handguard is mounted to the cocking tube wich rides above the barrel. The front sight assembly is mounted to the barrel. The barrel has absolutely nothing touching it from the receiver forward. The system is roller locking, recoil operated. There is no gas system whatsoever, DI or piston. I had Greek SAR8 imported by Springfield which was HK licensed gun. It was capable of MOA with good ammo. A real 91 is definately a steal at that price. If you reload you might want to invest in a port buffer as these things are hell on brass.

[Fortyforfun]

If you are looking into having a semi auto long range rifle DO NOT look to the H&K for your needs. The H&K would be a great investment if indeed it is a real H&K ( see all the above) but as a long range rifle it would blow! Here is why.

1. It is hard to get a good scope mount and the reall good ones are 3-4X the amount of a comprable AR-10 mount system.

2. Once mounted on the H&K rifle the scope sits WAY too high. You would need some kind of cheek peice to raise your head to get a consistent stock weld, or buy a specialty stock which costs cubic dollars, and if your scope had a B.C. of some kind it would be all fubared due to the scope to bore offset of the H&K type mount.

3. the barrel isn't free-floated so any type of bi-pod you put on it ( once again a specialty item ) will effect the point of impact/point of aim.

4. Once you get an optic, mount and bi-pod on an H&K you will have a 14# gun+. You will now need a transport system to carry it ( semi jokiing here.)

5. Barrel is short 18" compared to a 20" or 24" AR-10 so your velocity would be less causing less than optimal performance at longer ranges.

For the same kind of $ you can get a DPMS Panther Long Range, a Semi-Auto rifle VERY capable of 1/2" M.O.A. from the ones I have seen. I would get one with a fluted barrel, as the standard one is fairly heavy also. KurtM

Actually, the barrel is free-floated. The handguard is mounted to the cocking tube wich rides above the barrel. The front sight assembly is mounted to the barrel. The barrel has absolutely nothing touching it from the receiver forward. The system is roller locking, recoil operated. There is no gas system whatsoever, DI or piston. I had Greek SAR8 imported by Springfield which was HK licensed gun. It was capable of MOA with good ammo. A real 91 is definately a steal at that price. If you reload you might want to invest in a port buffer as these things are hell on brass.

I forgot to add that I think this platform would make an excelant precision rifle; however if this would primarily be used for three gun, I would choose the AR platform simply for the ergonomics. I have used MP5 subgun at work which is set up the same as the G3/ HK91 only in pistol caliber obviously. I'll take my M4/ AR15 type weapon over this any day, faster reloads, better trigger , better sights.

[JustShootOK]

Here is the verdict, the gallery was right, it is a PTR-91!!! Thanks all for the great feedback and accurate information, this is why Enos is one of the best forums around!!! I agree this would be a great buy if it was a HK. I would not buy a PTR-91 though, stick with the AR platform....

[Flatland Shooter]

Here is the verdict, the gallery was right, it is a PTR-91!!!

Too bad. I was hoping for one of those Cinderella stories that keeps me prowling the pawn shops and little mom and pop gun shops.

FWIW, should you find one in the future, the wear and tear just inside the magazine housing is a good indicator of how much use an HK 91/93 has seen.

Bill

[-JQ-]

Here is the verdict, the gallery was right, it is a PTR-91!!!

Too bad. I was hoping for one of those Cinderella stories that keeps me prowling the pawn shops and little mom and pop gun shops.

Bill

PTR's are the best of the clones IMHO...just not THE original...and priced accordingly at $900 but still isn't bad for a PTR.

Personal preference I suppose, but I wouldn't take a crate full of M4's for my MP5 for CQB...although the AR is the King of Aftermarket Accessories.

Bill - I'll see you in the pawn shops Seems everytime I find one is a shop there are asking $3K for a clunker or a Cetme they insist is an HK.

JustShoot - good job on your due diligence...keep us posted on your next find!