kgunz11 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Tokarev... where did you get that data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Supposedly, this powder is designed for comp'd guns. If so, then Winchester/Hogdon seriously missed the mark with a powder that can not make major in a USPSA Open gun. JF - All Major Open loads in 9x19 Major and .38 Super (and variants thereof) are over listed data. AutoComp seems to be in the same ballpark as 7625, and lots of Open shooters use 7625, so they'll just exceed listed data like they do with other powders. It might work, it might not, but SAAMI pressure limits have never been an issue for Open shooters. Uh, not quite, In less than a minute I found a whole bunch of published listed data making major in 38 Super and 1 load in 9mm with a 4 inch barrel with VVN105. I assume a few more would do it with a 5 + barrel. And this was main stream published Data from RCBS.load I went to Vihta Vouri's website and found one 9x19 load and 22 .38 Super loads they list as making Major, so I may be wrong, but if their reported velocities are like the ones in US reloading data, there's no telling how many loads (if any) they report as making Major actually do so out of real handguns. They also show three standard pressure .38 Special loads making Major, which really requires a willful suspension of disbelief IMO. I believe that VV powders are good, but not that they're magical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 If I'm slow enough at work this week I'm going to call and see what they have to say about pushing 115's at 1475 to 1500 fps out of a 5" 9mm for Open Major. I'll report back on what they tell me and if anyone has a chance to call before I do, please post what they tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 My 38 super open gun makes major easily with VV340 book loads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Ramshot Silhouette also has published major loads for the super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 VV has published .38 Super and .38 Super LAPUA (38SC) major loads listed with bullets as light as 115grs and 3N38, 3N37 and even N350 (174pf!). N105 will easily make major and is a touch slower than 3N38 (about half a grain more powder needed for the same PF) so they should easily be within SAAMI max pressures. With 124gr and 130gr bullets they do list major loads with N105....124gr max came in at 194pf!!! and 130gr came in at 189pf! So, it's pretty clear that there are a bunch of powder/bullet combos that easily make major within SAAMI spec limits. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Tokarev... where did you get that data? The data comes from Hodgdon's online reloading data center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Okay, folks...which goes better with crow, ketchup or A-1 sauce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Man Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Supposedly, this powder is designed for comp'd guns. If so, then Winchester/Hogdon seriously missed the mark with a powder that can not make major in a USPSA Open gun. JF - All Major Open loads in 9x19 Major and .38 Super (and variants thereof) are over listed data. AutoComp seems to be in the same ballpark as 7625, and lots of Open shooters use 7625, so they'll just exceed listed data like they do with other powders. It might work, it might not, but SAAMI pressure limits have never been an issue for Open shooters. Uh, not quite, In less than a minute I found a whole bunch of published listed data making major in 38 Super and 1 load in 9mm with a 4 inch barrel with VVN105. I assume a few more would do it with a 5 + barrel. And this was main stream published Data from RCBS.load I went to Vihta Vouri's website and found one 9x19 load and 22 .38 Super loads they list as making Major, so I may be wrong, but if their reported velocities are like the ones in US reloading data, there's no telling how many loads (if any) they report as making Major actually do so out of real handguns. They also show three standard pressure .38 Special loads making Major, which really requires a willful suspension of disbelief IMO. I believe that VV powders are good, but not that they're magical. It's The Mirrors. FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I just went to Wally World to do some shopping and found Hodgdon's 2009 Annual Manual. They have listings for Autocomp for almost all the calibers we shoot - 9x19, .38 Super, .38 Special, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. On their burn rate chart, they have it listed right between HS6 and 3N37. They also have a .38 Super load with the 135 grain Nosler and L'il Gun that makes Major (183+ PF). Bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Me thinks this is a repackaging of Win Action Pistol. which is basically worthless as an action pistol powder. Too slow for good minor loads, too fast for major in .355 bullets. and too slow for anything in .40. May be a decent 10mm/40 pin load. But I really think the powers that be at Hodgdon really are kinda clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Me thinks this is a repackaging of Win Action Pistol. Joe - I kinda doubt this. WAP is already being sold as Ramshot Silhouette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Me thinks this is a repackaging of Win Action Pistol. Joe - I kinda doubt this. WAP is already being sold as Ramshot Silhouette. I present WW296- H110, W231-HP38 WAP being sold as Silhouette isnt really relevant. But It may not be WAP in fact from comparing the data the new powder seams to give a little more velocity with the same powder charge which would lead me to believe it's a tad faster than WAP making it even more worthless for open major. Of course it could just be a variable in my older data or test barrels used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) Charles Petty notes in his current article that Auto Comp is very clean burning. That right there leads me to believe that it's not just WAP with a new name. This is probably the same powder that Widener's was selling last year as "St. Marks #226." I wanted to try some but they were only selling it in eight pound jugs. Edited January 2, 2009 by Tokarev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwmiket Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Soo...........anyone tried it yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Soo...........anyone tried it yet? Not on store shelves till this spring. According to their website. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I drive by the St. Marks powder plant all the time. It's owned by General Dynamics. It's amazing that they can turn fat lighter stumps into gunpowder!!! OK please explaint this one to me "Fat Lighter stumps into Gunpowder" What is a Fat Lighter Stump? is it real, or a joke that is too fast for me to catch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Fat lighter stumps refers to the stump left behind after cutting down a pine tree. It contains a lot of pine tar pitch (fat) and was once prized for lighting a fire because it burned hot. I didn't know that was what St Marks used as a source of cellulose for gunpowder, though. Maybe after it has been steamed to recover the pine tar and turpentine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Jim - Whatcha mean, "was once prized"? Those of us who still heat with woodburners still prize it, though it's called "rich lighter" down here. It's called "lighter" because it's easy to light, and burns well enough to start dried oak. In addition to this, it smells wonderful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockcomma Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) In Handloader Magazine #224 Aug.-Sept. 2003, author R.H. Vandenburg and producer Primex state that WAP and Silhouete are the same. And load data is interchangeable. Edited January 5, 2009 by Glockcomma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 WAP was never marketed by Hodgdon as anything, and seeing as Hodgdon now distribute and market all Winchester Powders we can assume they are making slightly different powders than they used to, to take as much market share as they can. Auto Comp is slightly different to WAP. I have load data here for WAP and comparing it against Auto Comp it is more than slightly different, and seems to run much cleaner as far as I have heard from people who have tried some pre production samples. eg 9mm 124gr FMJ 5.6gr WAP = 1105fps at 33300psi 5.2gr Auto Comp = 1120fps at 33300psi 33,300 seems to be the limit to what most load data you can generally find, although I think SAAMI is about 35,000PSI. So it is far from WAP repackaged. At more than 5% different in charge it would be very unwise using WAP load data for AutoComp. It just ain't the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 It just ain't the same. Nope... in fact, from the data you posted, it seems even less likely that it'll work in comp guns (that is, its obviously faster than WAP/Silhouette, which works in Major 9, but not Super). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 It just ain't the same. Nope... in fact, from the data you posted, it seems even less likely that it'll work in comp guns (that is, its obviously faster than WAP/Silhouette, which works in Major 9, but not Super). Ramshot Silhouette? Works very well for Super. I have been running it as high as 175 pf for more than a year with zero pressure signs or other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 It just ain't the same. Nope... in fact, from the data you posted, it seems even less likely that it'll work in comp guns (that is, its obviously faster than WAP/Silhouette, which works in Major 9, but not Super). Not sure how you meant, that is, its obviously faster than WAP/Silhouette, which works in Major 9, but not Super, May be you meant WAP as Silhouette works well in 9 Major and 38S/C. Never used WAP for 9 or 38 Major loads, so I can not comment on WAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Ramshot Silhouette? Works very well for Super. I have been running it as high as 175 pf for more than a year with zero pressure signs or other issues. And in every Super-ish gun I've seen it in (inc. my own), its dirty as hell, leaving yellow "corn meal" (ie, unburned grains of powder) all over the place. Not acceptable for a gun where reliability is a concern. In Major 9, it appears to burn clean with no issues. Tried WAP back in the 175 PF days, in Super, and had the same results - dirty as hell, and not as good as other powders for working the gun. Of course, maybe you like dirty, flippy, and unreliable Not sure how you meant, that is, its obviously faster than WAP/Silhouette, which works in Major 9, but not Super, May be you meant WAP as Silhouette works well in 9 Major and 38S/C. No, I meant exactly what I said. See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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