Tokarev Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I was online on the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center earlier looking for some data for Universal and see they've got some data listed for "Winchester Autocomp." I've never heard of this powder but the data looks like it might be worth a try. Anybody heard of or used this stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Hmm, sounds like something I need to try out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Never mind. I called Hodgdon and this powder won't be on the market until after the SHOT Show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Never mind. I called Hodgdon and this powder won't be on the market until after the SHOT Show. Did they give you any details? Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Never mind. I called Hodgdon and this powder won't be on the market until after the SHOT Show. Did they give you any details? Ed The gentleman I spoke to said that Autocomp is American made and will be coming from the St. Mark's plant in Florida. It's a medium burn rate and will be sold under the Winchester name. I'm guessing it'll be somewhere along the lines of St. Mark's #226 that was sold by Widener's. There's a bunch of load data for it on the Hodgdon website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intel6 Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Sounds like it is going to be a powder just for open guns? Neal in AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 (edited) Data copied off the Hodgdon website: Cartridge: 40 S&W Load Type: Pistol Starting Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maximum Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 135 GR. NOS JHP Winchester AutoComp .400" 1.125" 8.0 1236 26,600 PSI 8.8 1342 32,700 PSI 155 GR. HDY XTP Winchester AutoComp .400" 1.125" 7.0 1109 25,800 PSI 7.8 1223 33,800 PSI 165 GR. SIE JHP Winchester AutoComp .400" 1.125" 6.5 1037 25,600 PSI 7.1 1124 31,500 PSI 180 GR. HDY XTP Winchester AutoComp .400" 1.125" 5.8 975 27,700 PSI 6.3 1053 33,200 PSI 200 GR. HDY XTP Winchester AutoComp .400" 1.125" 4.8 838 27,900 SI 5.2 894 32,100 PSI NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS Edited September 17, 2008 by Tokarev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Hmmm---I wonder if this is the same powder that Atlanta Arms and Ammo is using in the "355 Super" 9 major load? That would be sweet--that ammo chrono's 180 pf out of my Glock with no pressure signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Cartridge: 45 ACP Load Type: Pistol Starting Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maximum Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 155 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester AutoComp .452" 1.230" 7.6 1006 13,700 CUP 8.2 1079 16,600 CUP 180 GR. LFP Winchester AutoComp .452" 1.140" 6.8 903 12,800 CUP 7.6 1008 16,500 CUP 185 GR. HDY JSWC Winchester AutoComp .451" 1.195" 6.7 856 12,600 CUP 7.4 958 16,200 CUP 200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester AutoComp .451" 1.225" 6.5 843 11,500 CUP 7.2 914 15,100 CUP 200 GR. SPR JHP Winchester AutoComp .451" 1.155" 6.4 856 12,600 CUP 7.0 930 16,000 CUP 230 GR. HDY FMJ FP Winchester AutoComp .451" 1.200" 6.0 789 13,800 CUP 6.6 871 17,100 CUP 230 GR. LRN Winchester AutoComp .452" 1.200" 6.1 832 13,700 CUP 6.6 896 16,400 CUP NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Cartridge: 9mm Luger Load Type: Pistol Starting Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maximum Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 90 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.010" 6.5 1255 27,700 PSI 6.1 1332 32,100 PSI 95 GR. SIE FMJ Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.010" 5.6 1216 27,300 PSI 6.1 1306 32,600 PSI 115 GR. LRN Winchester AutoComp .356" 1.100" 4.4 1002 24,800 PSI 5.1 1145 31,500 PSI 115 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.125" 5.1 1078 28,200 PSI 5.6 1161 32,500 PSI 125 GR. LCN Winchester AutoComp .356" 1.125" 4.3 1012 26,700 PSI 4.8 1101 32,800 PSI 125 GR. SIE FMJ Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.090" 4.7 1055 28,900 PSI 5.2 1120 33,300 PSI 130 GR. SIE FMJ Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.120" 4.4 933 24,900 PSI 5.0 1055 31,800 PSI 147 GR. HDY XTP Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.100" 3.6 827 27,900 PSI 4.0 916 32,800 PSI NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Cartridge: 38 Super Auto Load Type: Pistol Starting Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maximum Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 90 GR. SIE JHP Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.180" 6.6 1311 27,100 CUP 7.2 1388 32,500 CUP 115 GR. HDY XTP Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.245" 5.7 1152 27,400 CUP 6.2 1238 32,000 CUP 115 GR. LRN Winchester AutoComp .356" 1.250" 6.0 1178 26,400 CUP 6.5 1246 32,000 CUP 125 GR. CAST LCN Winchester AutoComp .356" 1.230" 5.5 1109 26,300 CUP 6.1 1174 31,700 CUP 125 GR. SIE FMJ Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.275" 5.7 1067 26,200 CUP 6.2 1173 31,400 CUP 130 GR. SIE FMJ Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.275" 5.6 1042 24,500 CUP 6.1 1144 31,900 CUP 135 GR. LRN Winchester AutoComp .356" 1.275" 5.3 1065 25,400 CUP 5.8 1139 31,400 CUP 147 GR. HDY XTP Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.260" 5.0 943 25,300 CUP 5.5 1056 32,900 CUP NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Based on the 38sup and 9mm load data it does NOT look like a good powder for major open loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Based on the 38sup and 9mm load data it does NOT look like a good powder for major open loads. I tend to agree with Larry. SuperComp looks a little fast to try for Major in Super or 9mm. It certainly will be running fairly high pressures if you could get close. It would appear to be somewhere between Universal and HS-6 for burn rate. I just wonder if it is not WAP tweaked a little and we all know what that stuff can and can't do. Hodgdon are doing all sorts of neat new stuff with Winchester powders since they took over. I have just tried WAA Super Handicap in my Metallic Sight Action Pistol 38Super, it runs real good at around 1180fps with a 115gr JHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Looks like a good .40 S&W powder choice. Although, are we lacking .40 S&W powder choices? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Looks like a good .40 S&W powder choice. Although, are we lacking .40 S&W powder choices?Jim Not at all.... laid up 8# of WSF which should keep me running for a looooong time. Hopefully they don't mess with it... I love it. I'll actually be driving right by the front gates of the Olin Plant in St. Marks on Wednesday evening...wish they gave out "samples" to the public like vineyards do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Based on the 38sup and 9mm load data it does NOT look like a good powder for major open loads. Just to further my understanding of load data... What is there about the data that leads you to that conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) Graham Smith, for the given bullet weights the velocities are just too low to be a major power factor. I might give some of this a try if I can get ahold of it but for my major loads I think I am going to stick with Longshot in my Super for the time being. The data does make major for .40 (even at the min powder charge in the data) though so that might be a graet market for the new powder. Joe W. Edited November 6, 2008 by joecichlid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I drive by the St. Marks powder plant all the time. It's owned by General Dynamics. It's amazing that they can turn fat lighter stumps into gunpowder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Just to further my understanding of load data... What is there about the data that leads you to that conclusion? I am working only on the 38Super and 9mm information. I am still going through the 40S&W data to be sure of my facts. Looking at all the data provided by Winchester and posted here by Tokarev the maximum pf would be about 150 at 32,000 PSI and loaded moderately ,ong as well. To get another 10% PF you tend to increase pressure by an estimated 20% sometimes 25% (this information came from someone I talked to at Hodgdon in 2003) so if we are already at 32K pSI and we go up 20% that gives us 38,400PSI. And most people would try to get a little more than that for margin of error, so pressures will be over the top. Again according to my source (he has shot IPSC and used 38Super and does understand what we are doing) pressures that high are far higher than the Brass can manage for more than a couple of loads. Any set back of OAL on loading from the magazine will cause significant problems with pressure which in his opinion is already way too high. This is what WAP used to do by the way, and that has killed quite a few hadnguns in the past. All in all I can't find enough advantages to outweigh the disadvantages to want to try for MAjor with the Auto Comp powder. I do see that it MY work very well for NRA AP at about 130pf, good load density so therefoer likely to assist in the accuracy department. With the higher amount of powder being used it may make the comp work better but the offset there is that it will push back a little firmer. I know of at least 4 powders (that I can get) that are proven to work when used properly at Major. Doing a quick comparison (which I know is dodgy) it is faster burning than HS6 and gives higher pressures for less velocity than HS6, this immediately is an indication that it is too fast a burn rate for Major. I have found that some ball powder will pressure spike, suddenly and without warning go nuts. This is not a good thing and again it looks to me that this is one of them powders. Look at http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp and see if I am missing anything. Edited December 4, 2008 by gm iprod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Based on the 38sup and 9mm load data it does NOT look like a good powder for major open loads. Just to further my understanding of load data... What is there about the data that leads you to that conclusion? Woops missed this one As GMiprod has stated already I suspect from looking at the data that the pressure may be excessive if this is used to load to major PF. Of course we really cant know for sure until we try it but with so many other good powders out there I dont see it as a good use of my time to find out. If you decide to try it post results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 IMR/Hogdon/Winchester is now running adds for this powder. Anybody seen it actually for sale anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Supposedly, this powder is designed for comp'd guns. If so, then Winchester/Hogdon seriously missed the mark with a powder that can not make major in a USPSA Open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Due out Spring 09 FWIW. Might try a pound with 155/165gr JHP's in my Open G35. If it doesn't work I know it'll kill fire ants. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Supposedly, this powder is designed for comp'd guns. If so, then Winchester/Hogdon seriously missed the mark with a powder that can not make major in a USPSA Open gun. JF - All Major Open loads in 9x19 Major and .38 Super (and variants thereof) are over listed data. AutoComp seems to be in the same ballpark as 7625, and lots of Open shooters use 7625, so they'll just exceed listed data like they do with other powders. It might work, it might not, but SAAMI pressure limits have never been an issue for Open shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) Supposedly, this powder is designed for comp'd guns. If so, then Winchester/Hogdon seriously missed the mark with a powder that can not make major in a USPSA Open gun. JF - All Major Open loads in 9x19 Major and .38 Super (and variants thereof) are over listed data. AutoComp seems to be in the same ballpark as 7625, and lots of Open shooters use 7625, so they'll just exceed listed data like they do with other powders. It might work, it might not, but SAAMI pressure limits have never been an issue for Open shooters. Uh, not quite, In less than a minute I found a whole bunch of published listed data making major in 38 Super and 1 load in 9mm with a 4 inch barrel with VVN105. I assume a few more would do it with a 5 + barrel. And this was main stream published Data from RCBS.load Edited December 28, 2008 by Joe4d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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