PistolPete Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 I was at a match last night where we were shooting 2 plate racks with a total of 12 plates. You were only allowed to load 10 rounds per mag which made a reload necessary. I was the only person reloading between racks. I would shoot 6 plate on the first rack and then when transitioning to the 2nd rack I would reload then shoot the remaining plates. Some of the older folks were asking why I was reloading between racks and not when the gun was empty. They said that would slow me down yet my times were about 2 seconds faster than theirs. Isn't it faster to reload before the mag is empty because the slide won't lock open which will require one less movement (dropping the slide) than doing the opposite. Obviously this wouldn't be the case if you were missing. When do you reload in this type of situation and why? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Based on what I am reading - your analysis is right on. You would never want to reload from slide lock - it is slower. There is truly no getting around that. You would want to reload between the two racks because that transition (between the last target on rack 1 and the first on rack 2) is probably going to be your longest transition. It would only make sense to "share" that longer transition time with a reload - which would then save you time overall. Last but not least, it gives a clear breaking point on when you want to execute the reload. Sounds like you are right on to me. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 I concur. Older does not always equate to wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted July 12, 2003 Author Share Posted July 12, 2003 When I tried to explain this logic they didn't want to hear it. This isn't the range I belong to I was a guest as they invited me to shoot with them. The range was very nice but my feeling was that these people were not really "shooters" as I would describe myself and the people I usually compete with. They are more lax in their matches and aren't as serious. I tried explaining my logic about the reload but it seemed they wouldn't take me seriously as I'm a newer shooter (less than 4 years) and I'm so much younger. But, I am open minded and did take what their reasoning and I thought about it on the ride home and for me I still feel the way I reloaded was and always will be faster. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Hi Pete, I concur with the rest, you analysis looks sound to me, I would've done the same thing. Good though that you listened to the others, thought about and then made up your own mind, based on an open mindset. This is what will make you advance. I'm a rather novice shooter myself (5 years exp.) and I have similar experiences like the one you described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Garfield How long will you have to shoot to not consider yourself a novice? You should be well into the "I know it all by now" stage, which is way past novice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratochief Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I've run into those types, they usually shut up when you smoke them stage after stage. To get back to your question, In MY opinion, it depends on the company your with. If I was shooting with a group of A-GM's, I probably wouldn't reload and HOPE for a really good run, if the competition is B or Below, I'd probably reload and still have a pretty good run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwalker Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Pete, I think that you have discovered one of the fundamental truths about shooting (and life): don't accept all the advice that you are given (except mine, of course... ). So many times, I have been told by "more experienced shooters" that, the only to do something is X... Often the advice from one person completely contradicts the advice from someone else. I learned this lesson the hard way when I was 9 years old. I was swimming in the inter-school sports day and all my preparation had been for the breast stroke event, in which I did quite well. Then I was asked to fill-in for somone on the medley relay team (medley = any style was allowed). As I was about to stand on the starting block for the race, a well-meaning adult gave me some good advice: "swim freestyle - its faster". Needless to say, I completely stuffed up my 2 laps trying to learn freestyle during a race and I thoroughly pissed off my team mates. Since then, I usually find that the best thing to do is to listen politely, and then reply with thanks and say that you do not want to confuse yourself with something that you have not practiced but that you'll try it out at your next practicse session... Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 If I was shooting with a group of A-GM's, I probably wouldn't reload and HOPE for a really good run, if the competition is B or Below, I'd probably reload and still have a pretty good run. 'chief, I think you misread the original question. 10 shots in the gun, 12 targets. You've got to reload in there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 GarfieldHow long will you have to shoot to not consider yourself a novice? You should be well into the "I know it all by now" stage, which is way past novice. Maybe you are right about that. It's just that I haven't shot much IPSC matches. This weekend was my 6th match as a shooter, and 1st match as RO. And I try to avoid the "I know it all" attitude because I learn every day and try to keep an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 In these situations, smile and nod, and let the timer do the talking. Stick with your strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Pete, If they weren't able to understand your logic, they may be called shooters (if they could hit the targets reliably), but not competitors (or clear thinkers). Could they possibly be... curmudgeons? be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 curmudgeons Had to look that one up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 I value everyones opinions and take advice from everyone. I will then analize and research (if at all possible) the advice and see if I can apply what they are recommending. Sometimes a small portion of their advice can be applied so I take it. Maybe the info can be used for something else. However, in this situation I believe the way I am doing this is the faster of the two ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 curmudgeons Had to look that one up So did I. Definition was "Churl". Had to look that one up too. Pete, I agree with your reloading strategy and the philosophy in your last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 I would be interested to know if these guys were IPSC or USPSA shooters. I am not saying that IPSC or USPSA shottists are better than anyone else that shoots,BUT in my opinion we solve problems on stages in a more tactfull (no other word to use) manner,due to the nature of our sport. we`re always looking for the edge(no pun intended). Running a pistol dry before a reload , not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 curmudgeons???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Your right, the reload without going to slide lock is faster also has less possibility for error. BTW I hate the word shottists. Not only does it not exist in common language (Websters Dictionary), it just sounds stupid to me. Sorry, had to get that off my chest. Take care, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP2 Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 BTW I hate the word shottists. Not only does it not exist in common language (Websters Dictionary), it just sounds stupid to me. Sorry, had to get that off my chest Looks like its reserved for South Africans!! did a search with Google for " shottists " and came up with a load of articles in a local SA newspaper!!! Is Websters an all American dictionary? If a word in the dictionary were mispelled, how would we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 This is not the hate forum.(i cant spell either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 (i cant spell either) Do you hate that? hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Is Websters an all American dictionary? Yes it is. But for English, check the Oxford dictionary (it's not in there either, and neither is the word "shootist"). Sometimes you guys are not nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Who cares where it is or isnt, all i want to do is shoot and when i am not shooting i talk abt shooting all the time,english is a very confuzing language and its not my first language. i will be nicer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP2 Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 taken the bait, hook,line and sinker !!! Back to the thread now !! I believe Pistol Pete is right on target with his way. Some old folks have really got weird ideas. Its all about time!!! not whether the mag is empty !! Some of the older folks were asking why I was reloading between racks and not when the gun was empty. They said that would slow me down yet my times were about 2 seconds faster than theirs. Zorba, what's your first language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted July 29, 2003 Author Share Posted July 29, 2003 Here is another question about reloading.... If you have 30 targets in a match as we sometimes do with a max of 10 rounds per mag. Assummnig you didn't miss a target would it be faster to unload the mag so the slide locks and reload only 3 times or would it be better to assume you will miss a shot or two and reload after 9 on the first mag and 10 on the rest so the slide doesn't lock open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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