Help a new guy spend his money

[Maxtork]

Hi All,

I'm new here to the forum as well as to handguns in general. I have read a ton and learned alot but shot relatively little and I need some help in my first handgun purchase. I have pretty much narrowed it down to either a CZ75B or a witness. I'll appologize ahead of time as I'm sure this will turn into a novel but I wanted to give as many details as possible so as to get the best recommendations possible.

To start I will say the purpose is as a hobby ( I like to tinker) as well as a home defense gun. If all works out ok I would like to do some competitive shooting so I would like to purchase a gun that fits that need as well. I will be the main person shooting but I would also like my wife to be comfortable with it as well. I travel often and I want her to be able to use it effectively if someone was to wait until my car is away before entering the house uninvited. This probably means no .45 as she is a fairly petite lady and even if she could shoot one she probably wouldn't want to shoot it as much meaning less proficiency overall. She may do ok with it but I don't want to get carried away right up front.

So a buddy told me I should get a 1911 which seemed like a good idea and he let me shoot his a bit. It was a 45 and that was ok by me but I have to say I was a bit disappointed as the gun just didn't really seem to fit me well. Nothing I can put my finger on but it just didn't seem super comfortable in my hand. I know I can get aftermarket grips and that is still an option. I started reading about the CZs and everyone seems to like them alot so it became an option as well. I went around to the local gun stores and was able to pick up a CZ P01 and it felt much better in my hand than the 1911 but I was not able to shoot it. I will say that the grip seemed a touch short (my pinky was right on the edge) but comfortable none the less.

As far as caliber goes I don't have a specific preference. I have shot 45 and thats great as well as a bit of 9mm which is fine as well. I have never fired 40sw or .38 super but I would guess them to be somewhere in between. Once again I do want my wife to be able to shoot so recoil is still an issue to a point. I don't think I need to get a 22 but I don't want to go overkill either. I'm sure there is a price difference in ammo for each and that is to be considered as I want to be able to shoot alot to get proficient. I can afford to shoot 45 if that is whats needed but I don't want to throw money away just to be manly with a big bore gun.

So now that everyone knows the background maybe you can offer some advice. I was looking at the EAA witness line but I am a little confused as there seems to be a ton of options. The EAA website has them broken down into the steel and the elite ranges and then further broken down into elite gold, elite limited, elite stock, and elite match. I can read many of the differences but I'm not sure where my money would be best spent. I am just starting out but I don't exactly want to buy the bottom of the barrel and waste money when it doesn't do the job. As mentioned before I do like to tinker so I want to make sure that what ever I get has parts available for it. I guess in that respect I would rather spend less on the gun initially and then build it up over time even if it is more cost effective to buy a gun with all the bells and wistles right up front. I think it would be more fun that way and the wife won't squeal so much about spending a mint all in one shot .

As for budget I can afford more than I would like to spend so I would rather buy what is really the right gun and not just the cheapest. I was hoping to spend under $500 but again I can adjust to get the right gun. Having money left over in the budget just means I can shoot more and maybe do more tinkering. I don't mind spending a bit more in the long run by doing it in stages but I don't want to end up spending millions souping up a Yugo either!

So now that you know my every want and need and now that I have probably set a record for the longest first post, I'll shut up and see what you recommend. Thanks in advace for any advice you can give.

Max

[Jeff686]

Wow! That's a lot.

Might I suggest 3 guns?

For tinkering, buy a 10/22. They are cheap and fun. You can spend A LOT of time tinkering with it, and there are an unbelievable number of aftermarket parts. Go to rimfire.com.

For you and your wife's personal protection, get a revolver. A nice medium frame 38 special or 357 magnum. They are easy to shoot and pleasant to practice with for all size people. Most importantly, when in extreme stress, you can still operate it. It's got no safeties, slide releases, magazines, or interlocks. Just pull the trigger.

For USPSA competition, the CZ and EAA are both great choices. If you plan to shoot in production division, buy the CZ SP01 or the Witness Elite Stock in 9mm. If you plan to shoot in the Limited division, get the Witness Elite Match or Witness Elite Limited in 40cal.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Jeff686

[olp73]

+1 on the cz sp 01- call Angus!!

[Hi-Power Jack]

For the budget, you want to stay with one gun.

The CZ's attracted my attention when I was looking,

and for the budget, I'd say it's probably a great idea.

I'd stick with the 9mm since you can buy the ammo

a lot cheaper than any other caliber (except .22)

which isn't really great for self defense. It's also

easier for new shooters than the other calibers.

Don't think you'll ever regret buying the CZ -

good luck with it.

[ks-shooter]

Wow! That's a lot.

Might I suggest 3 guns?

For tinkering, buy a 10/22. They are cheap and fun. You can spend A LOT of time tinkering with it, and there are an unbelievable number of aftermarket parts. Go to rimfire.com.

For you and your wife's personal protection, get a revolver. A nice medium frame 38 special or 357 magnum. They are easy to shoot and pleasant to practice with for all size people. Most importantly, when in extreme stress, you can still operate it. It's got no safeties, slide releases, magazines, or interlocks. Just pull the trigger.

For USPSA competition, the CZ and EAA are both great choices. If you plan to shoot in production division, buy the CZ SP01 or the Witness Elite Stock in 9mm. If you plan to shoot in the Limited division, get the Witness Elite Match or Witness Elite Limited in 40cal.

I am mostly with Jeff; although I think 2 pistols would be the way to go.

A 22 pistol for practicing. The gun is cheap and the ammunition is even cheaper. I would recommend a semi-auto pistol by S&W, Ruger or Walther can be found for less than $250.

For home defense I have no problem with a revolver. However, you could get a Glock 17, or an XD in 9 or 40 or an M&P in 9 or 40 and this would work for competition and home defense. IMHO you want a simple gun with a full trigger pull for home defense. 1911s are great guns, but unless you shoot them often, cocked and locked can be a dangerous way to go. All that for $.02!

[leam]

Your goals are doable, and even can be done with one gun, if you reload.

First, fit RULES! If it doesn't feel like it belongs in your hand keep looking. You will run into an issue that your wife's fit and your's might not match up, but if you follow my advice that will cease to be an problem.

Second, caliber is moot, pick a gun that has a 22 conversion available for it. You and your wife can get lots of practice for cheap and use the full bore upper for defense and competition. You can download a 45 or 40 to be a poofster load; large bullets and light powder charges. 9mm is cheap but not a great home defense load.

Really spend time on dry-fire and 22 fire. You and your wife will get much better than most shooters doing just that, and get used to the "bang" part. Read "Teaching Women to Shoot" by Vicki Farnam and and Diane Nicholl.

Once your wife has shooting presented to her in a way she might enjoy, you run the risk of losing either your gun or a chunk of money to get her a gun. Women can and often shoot as much and better than many men, once they get it presented to them properly.

Leam

[Maxtork]

Thanks for all the replies,

I don't mind the idea of multiple guns but budget dictates that one is it for now. I can always add more later but for the short term I have to do what I can with one. I know my wife might not fit the same gun that I do but it will be 90% me shooting and 10% her for now. As was mentioned I want to introduce her to it in such a way that she will actually go out and shoot and learn how to use it. Once she is comfortable with the concept I can look at getting her a gun of her own later. I do like the idea of the .22 conversion though which brings up another question. Should I get a 9mm and call it good or should I get a 40 or 45 and the 22 conversion? A 9mm by itself would be cheaper up front but more expensive to shoot than a 22. The 22 conversion would be more up front cost and cheaper to shoot but do you really get good training and experience from shooting 22 vs 40 or 45 from basically the same gun? I can see getting alot out of it by learning how to shoot and handle the gun in general but if you get good and accurate with a 22 and then switch to the 45 does it carry over ?

I really liked the feel of the CZ so I am leaning that direction vs some of the other M&P and Glock types out there. The question then becomes which particular model....CZ75B, EAA witness steel, witness match, stock etc. The steel witness versions are really affordable but are they that much less gun than the elite series?

Anyway thanks for all the info thus far. It is all taken into consideration for sure.

Max

[LJE]

Seems like you are favoring a CZ, which is not a bad choice. CZ also makes a 22 Kadet conversion slide for them. I have a 75B in 9mm, a 75SA in 40, and a Kadet 22 conversion slide. The 22 conversion works well, but like all 22 conversions, it can be ammo sensitive for reliable functioning. My 22 works well with CCI Mini Mags, and works great with Fiochi match ammo, although somewhat expensive compared to the CCI. The CZ's I own have all been very reliable and accurate.

Larry

[leam]

I can't advise on versions; pick what fits your hand and budget.

If your wife hasn't shot lots then even the 9mm will be more than she likes. I don't understand it fully but females are more aware of sensory input so it's a lot louder, effectively, to her. Same for recoil. She can, when she's ready, learn to shoot well. It just needs to be done in her time.

.22 ammo is *lots* cheaper, and the trigger time and shooting discipline you get will pay off. You'll have to adjust to the recoil when you shoot full power loads but you'll be able to practice the fundamentals more.

On the topic of tinkering, I'd recommend keeping that for your reloading at first. Get very comfortable with the gun before you change anything. Except maybe grips. If you're interested try making wood grips that really fit your hand.

Leam

[J-Ho]

The Witness steel guns are great for the money. That being said I would get an Elite Stock. Pick your caliber. That's what I would do. If you have never owned a handgun, try out as many as you can first. The Witness steel is a good gun. For my money I would go witness, but the CZ75 and sp01 are great guns too. Get your hands on one, as you shoot more, you'll figure out you want another gun, by then finances might allow for another.