I have $1,000,000 to build an indoor range

[Loves2Shoot]

I have been approached by an investor who wants to build a nice small indoor shooting range. I've done some research and am under the impression that it might cost a LOT more than that. Is there anyone here with experience about the cost of locating a range (not building a building) with around 10 lanes? Any help is appreciated. I think getting the city to sign off would be the first step.

[eerw]

there is an indoor range here that it is in its second year..

this was a ground up build, etc.

they might be able to give you some insight..

whistling pines gun club

owner is Bob Holmes.

Edited July 24, 2008 by eerw

[Chris Keen]

There's an indoor range here in Dayton that renovated an old warehouse in a hevily industrial neighborhood (no residential complaints to worry about). They have 10 lanes with target retrieval system. Been in operation for 4 or 5 years now.

Sim-Trainer.com

Owners name is Jeff Pedro

Edited July 25, 2008 by CHRIS KEEN

[tightloop]

I have been approached by an investor who wants to build a nice small indoor shooting range. I've done some research and am under the impression that it might cost a LOT more than that. Is there anyone here with experience about the cost of locating a range (not building a building) with around 10 lanes? Any help is appreciated. I think getting the city to sign off would be the first step.

Noise abatement, air turns, heavy metal control and parking will be big hurdles...good luck

[Run n Gun]

Scott,

Call Mike McCarter (541-619-0038). Mike is the Executive Director for ARPC and he has done some background work (ventilation, bullet traps, lighting) with the goal of upgrading the club's existing 22-only indoor range to any center-fire pistol. And as a plus, you know each other and his advice is free!

Ed

[Putty]

Ed Santos has a state of the art indoor range in Post falls. Give him a call.

www.centertargetsports.com

Edited July 24, 2008 by Putty

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks!

Edited July 24, 2008 by Loves2Shoot

[Bubber]

I have been approached by an investor who wants to build a nice small indoor shooting range. I've done some research and am under the impression that it might cost a LOT more than that. Is there anyone here with experience about the cost of locating a range (not building a building) with around 10 lanes? Any help is appreciated. I think getting the city to sign off would be the first step.

You might PM Luttrell625 he may know a thinkg or two. He has one in Tontitown. One rifle and one pistol. Just a thought. later rdd

[Jeff686]

I think I recently saw something from the NRA about range development seminars. I think they have 4 a year. Give them a call if you're a member.

[Genghis]

I'm an attorney and NRA Instructor/TC. I've represented shooting ranges, and been involved in some parts of planning them.

NRA has a range development program. here's a link: http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/index.asp. Their Range Source Book costs $59: http://materials.nrahq.org/go/products.asp...20Source%20Book. It's about 4 or 5 inches thick, and has very detailed information about building a range.

They also have a program that can send a consultant out to look at your area, and IIRC all you have to do is pay travel costs. This would be more beneficial for an outside range, but maybe you could get the info by phone or e-mail and save the travel costs.

There's an indoor range in Tyler, Texas called Lock & Load. Steve Prater is the manager. B.J. works there. It's been there for 10 years or so, and the current owner didn't build it, but Steve might be able to help. If not, he can put you in touch with the owner.

[Rob Boudrie]

Matt Mederios at the American Firearm School (www.americanfirearmsschool.com) might be able to give you some pointers. He's stuck far behind enemy lines in the MA/RI border, but runs a 6 lane 25 yard indoor range that always seems to have a wait in weekends - and a backlog of customers waiting when the 9AM-12AM USPSA match finishes up.

Erich Thalheimer (thalheimer@rcn.com) is a member who runs a business doing acoustical consulting, and has done several sound studies for private as well as government ranges. In fact, I've been hired as a "designated shooter" on two occasions .

[tgibson]

Talk with Mike and then when you do get the approval. I would suggest getting several prices. I have seen some people get really burned on ranges. I would be happy to help you out with anything I can.

Adios,

TG

[lndshrk]

The NSSF - National Shooting Sports Foundation has a lot of info on their website www.nssf.org and is part of the NASR National Assoc. of Shooting Ranges.

[EricW]

Scott,

Indoor ranges are not good investments. Most of them struggle, fail, get re-financed, then flounder on. If your acquaintance doing this on a philanthropic basis, fine. But as a great way to invest $1M, he/she would do MUCH better with an S&P 500 index fund.

E

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks for all the good input.

Eric,

Where did you get those stats? The investor has done ok, and if we can do ok with it in the first 2-3 years, looks to be prepared to invest quite a bit more into this venture.

I know Bend could use an indoor range that was done properly.

[M'Lady]

Scott,

Indoor ranges are not good investments. Most of them struggle, fail, get re-financed, then flounder on. If your acquaintance doing this on a philanthropic basis, fine. But as a great way to invest $1M, he/she would do MUCH better with an S&P 500 index fund.

E

Maybe I am an optimist. But, I definitely think a range can be an excellent investment if done right. It may require some promotion, but definitely doable. Incorporate a gun shop, add a classroom, and rent it out for training (security and local PD). However, 10 lanes may be a little too small though. You really need to do the research into the local market to really get a good grasp of the profitability.

[scribble]

Scott,

Indoor ranges are not good investments. Most of them struggle, fail, get re-financed, then flounder on. If your acquaintance doing this on a philanthropic basis, fine. But as a great way to invest $1M, he/she would do MUCH better with an S&P 500 index fund.

E

Maybe I am an optimist. But, I definitely think a range can be an excellent investment if done right. It may require some promotion, but definitely doable. Incorporate a gun shop, add a classroom, and rent it out for training (security and local PD). However, 10 lanes may be a little too small though. You really need to do the research into the local market to really get a good grasp of the profitability.

We have a small 6 bay shop in a little town about 20 miles from a major city and they are doing well. They have been there for the past 5-7 years. It is in the basement, they have a full uniform shop for fire, ems, and PD upstairs along with small gun shop. I just wish it was bigger and not as far but it is a good setup and reasonable. $12 an hour.

[shred]

One stat I heard long ago was "the second owner of an indoor range makes money".

Around here that adage is very true.

[open17]

Scott, There was a range just over the hill from you in Salem. It shut down a few years ago.

Might be worth checking out for equipment. I think the name was "Shooters Mercantile".

Take a little road trip and talk to the folks at Baron's Den in Eugene. They have been in

business for a while and might be a good source of info.

Bill

[Loves2Shoot]

One stat I heard long ago was "the second owner of an indoor range makes money".

Around here that adage is very true.

This investor is quite savvy and apparently has followed my advise of looking for equipment of ranges that didn't make it and has found some relatively new gear at fire sale (scrap) prices from the new owners who are changing the use of the building.

Bill,

Those are stops we planning on making for sure after talking to Mike.

For those concerned it won't work, well you never know until you try It may be a pipe dream, but sure things are boring. It may never get zoning approval, but we are still ready to give it a go.

Input from the great folks on the forum definitely saves us a lot of time. Thanks again.

[Jeff686]

Do you make money on the range fees or the ancillary services?

A friend who owned a camera shop told me that he made very little money when selling a camera. He made his profit on the accessories, services, lessons, and supplies.

Do you plan to have a full service gun shop? Will you run your gunsmith business out of it? Will you offer lots of classes that encourage people to buy your goods?

I don't know how many gun shops are in Bend, and if they are any good. Maybe one of them could be talked into relocating into your new 'shooting center'.

Also, don't forget about marketing. Many business are made or lost by marketing. You've got to get people in the door.

[Loves2Shoot]

Do you make money on the range fees or the ancillary services?

A friend who owned a camera shop told me that he made very little money when selling a camera. He made his profit on the accessories, services, lessons, and supplies.

Do you plan to have a full service gun shop? Will you run your gunsmith business out of it? Will you offer lots of classes that encourage people to buy your goods?

I don't know how many gun shops are in Bend, and if they are any good. Maybe one of them could be talked into relocating into your new 'shooting center'.

Also, don't forget about marketing. Many business are made or lost by marketing. You've got to get people in the door.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. That is exactly what we are thinking. We have some good instructors to draw from that are retired LEO instructors and IPSC shooters also, and some younger guys looking to make a living out of it. We would do class 3 shoots also, and have a small supply of autos and suppressed fun stuff to get that part going. We have a shop that designs high end golf Pro Shops that is interested in doing the common areas, so it would look top notch.

It all depends on the city though.

[EricW]

For those concerned it won't work, well you never know until you try

Scott,

Sorry to be such a pessimist, but LOTS of people have tried and LOTS of people have gone under. Unless I had guaranteed, money-in-the-bank, signed-in-blood contracts from Big Gumbint (read not local, but state or better) for facilities rental ...

... and ...

I was guaranteed to get all my money out within the first couple of years, there would be simply no way I'd throw huge dinero at an indoor range. I also am not buying the "Yuppers, we're all just rolling in the dough" anecdotal evidence. From what I've seen locally (where there is a DIRE shortage of shooting facilities for law enforcement), the indoor ranges are barely clinging to life. I haven't seen their books, but I've seen every other piece of external evidence of barely solvent institutions that trade dollars between the customers and the bills payable.

Also, you can totally get burned by state/local/federal agencies in an area collectivizing their funds and building a range of their own. Then where will you be? They don't want to shoot with civilians anyway, so unless your range offers some spectacular capability, don't expect much loyalty if they suddenly get some DHS slush funds.

Typically, these are not "hands-off" operations either. You can't just plunk down the ching, step back and wait to get paid. Most owners I see spend their lives in the range, working the till, giving classes, stocking shelves, etc. I hope the financier realizes that he's going to be dropping $1M and getting about a $15/hr job in return for his trouble.

Build if you must, but I still stand by that there are a million better ways to invest a million dollars.

[Putty]

Scott will make it happen.

[Loves2Shoot]

Eric,

I appreciate your concerns, but he will NOT be looking to do anything with Big Gumbint™, as he has stated that very clearly. He does believe Bend could use a range, and I'm in agreement. If we can sustain 30+ golf ranges in the area (most pretty upscale), I would think we should be able to support one shooting range/club.

My main concern (as stated in my first post) is that 1 million is not enough to do it properly. I would hate to see a range come to town, and fail. I've been told it takes 3-4 million to do a range properly from someone who has a very successful range, but has a much bigger customer base than we have here in Bend, so getting info from smaller operations should be quite useful.

He came to me because he wants a full service gunsmith shop located in the facility, and we are looking to expand to a bigger space, so it might be a mutually beneficial arrangement.

If it is not feasible or worth the risk involved for the investment of his capital, I have no doubts that it will not get out of the planning and research phase of development. I'm not spending cash, but I'll do what I can to help Bend get an indoor range.

This is a photo he took today when we went shooting that illustrates this.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Loves2Shoot