Hagop Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Is there an advantage loading ultra-sonic loads in a limited/standard IPSC pistol vs loading sub-sonic always in respect of maintaining the major power factor requirements for this sport? Do the advantage of loading ultra-sonic or sub-sonic translate to a flatter shooting limited pistol or vis versa? Is tracking of the front sight improved and aided by using sub or sonic loads? Which would be less stressfull to the pistol not to mention the shooter? Is the recoil spring factor become a consideration in electing to shoot sub-sonic loads versus ultra sonic or sonic loads in relation to the current power factors in USPSA/IPSC? Or is this to subjective from person to person,and a matter of perception? We are always looking for that little bit of edge in order to aid us in this sport. Is there any to be found here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I think it's all subjective. For awhile the 200 cast bullet and fast powder with the lead cut in your barrel was the hot thing. I think the majority of good shooters are using the 180's with the thinking that it's a good compromise between the real snappy light bullets and the slow chugging fat bullets. The thing that makes it tough to decide is that something new seems to always work good at least for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagop Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 Quote: from 2alpha on 7:14 pm on Jan. 1, 2003 I think the majority of good shooters are using the 180's with the thinking that it's a good compromise between the real snappy light bullets and the slow chugging fat bullets. 2alpha, That is it then.....the compromise is a 180gr. bullet travelling at under 1000 fps to meet the current power factors of both IPSC/USPSA major limited division requirements? Sub-sonic is it? Then why are there competitors continuing to delve in discovering the edge they feel is there and willing not to compromise? We are special breed we are....we will continue to dig and search until we find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The question is....is there one in this area of our research? Is it all for nothing.....because we will end up comming full circle and settle on a compromise? Good shooters have settled so we should take their lead and save our time and dollars and settle? Are we trying to hard to make our limited pistols shoot like and open pistol? Maybe shooting ultra-sonic or if you will sonic loads are for those that shoot both open division and limited division and they are looking for the same feel in both pistols? What do you mean? Well let me elaborate....150gr., 155gr., & 165 gr. bullets travelling at sonic speeds. Get the picture? I could go on rambling on why,why why? Is there an edge to gain here? Learning the hard way is a requirement of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hagop, My Sierra manual talks about bullets undergoing a big change in their Ballistic Coefficient as they pass through the sound barrier. I am not sure that I want to draw any conclusions from that...but it could be worth investigating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hagop, Yep 180 subsonic, well depending on where you live There are always competitors looking for a better way, very few are qualified to know the better way if it hit them in the head and I mean that in the nicest way possible. I can't think of anything in this game that's not a compromise in some way except of course one's ethics. We are a special breed for sure. A lot of trends come and go, I'm not saying that heavy or light bullets are good or bad. It's not a bad thing to follow the lead of the accomplished. Make your choices and try what you want just keep an open mind and don't get stuck with something just because your ego won't let it go. I think some are trying to get their limited pistol to feel like an open pistol. You're gonna have to make some compromises to do it though. No matter what you do you're going to have to use more muscle or more time or maybe both to shoot the Lim. Close in hoser shots excepted. For me it's getting the timing to work for my style, it's not productive for me to have a Lim gun thats cycles faster than I can use at the expensive of more recoil or muzzle jump. I don't see that sub sonic or ultra sonic is the issue, thats just a by product of making the power factor. Now if your talking rifle shooting the distance at which the bullet drops below sonic is a big deal. You want to keep your targets within sonic range if possible, don't think that applies to USPSA stages. If you're primarily a open shooter going to limited there is a lot to learn, a lot more than bullet weight pref. Thats what I love about shooting, the more you learn the more you learn there is to learn. The edge is there for you to find, I talk to a lot of shooters who are trying to find the trick powder or bullet and they somehow ignore the 2 mikes they usually get on each stage. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagop Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 Quote: from 2alpha on 10:19 pm on Jan. 1, 2003 It's not a bad thing to follow the lead of the accomplished. I think some are trying to get their limited pistol to feel like an open pistol. You're gonna have to make some compromises to do it though. For me it's getting the timing to work for my style, it's not productive for me to have a Lim gun thats cycles faster than I can use at the expensive of more recoil or muzzle jump. I don't see that sub sonic or ultra sonic is the issue, thats just a by product of making the power factor. LOL 2alpha, You show wisdom in your response and practicality to boot....and concur with your assesments quoted here in. Thank you (Edited by Hagop at 8:57 am on Jan. 2, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I have gone the other way and load a 220 gr. plated bullet for .40 . Kinda reminds me of my .45 (which isn't all bad) I like the feel of this load but it does appear to cycle a bit slower James Ong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagop Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 Quote: from ong45 on 5:35 am on Jan. 2, 2003 220 gr. plated bullet for .40 . Kinda reminds me of my .45. James Ong ong45, I think in your case we will call your choice....familiarity? 2alpha is not far off the mark when he says the choices are very subjective. I guess the familiar feel of the .45 ACP in your transition to .40 S&W was more important to you than starting anew? I would assume that this would also hold true for those competitors transitioning from open division pistols to limited division pistols or those competing in both divisions. They would probably opt to go with a lighter bullet travelling at sonic speeds in order to capture the subjective feel of their open pistols in their limited pistols? Would you say familiarity is the edge? Have we come full circle? Has it been staring us in the face all this time under the guise of familiaritiy? Is that the edge....just like everything else becoming familiar and attunned? (Edited by Hagop at 11:05 am on Jan. 2, 2003) (Edited by Hagop at 8:08 am on Jan. 4, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hagop, In 38 supercomp, i have tried 135's,124's and am now using a 115jhp . If you shot them side by side you could tell a difference but in every case it didn't seem to matter after the 100th round. I use 115's just to simplify and just have one bullet for major and steel (minor) loads. Incidentally, the word i would use to describe the 220-.40 load is "plush", the sight tracks very predictably and after shooting the open gun, seems like it takes forever to get back down. James Ong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagop Posted January 3, 2003 Author Share Posted January 3, 2003 Quote: from ong45 on 3:34 pm on Jan. 2, 2003 Incidentally, the word i would use to describe the 220-.40 load is "plush", the sight tracks very predictably and after shooting the open gun, seems like" it takes forever to get back down". James Ong Quote:from onge45 on 5:35 am on Jan. 2, 2003 I have gone the other way and load 220 gr. plated bullet for .40. Kinda reminds me of my .45. Plush it is then ong45. If you feel your loading of a 220gr. bullet in your .40 reminds you of the plush feeling you had with your .45....who am i to argue. As for the .38 super comp. equation you added therafter....I can only suggest that maybe you should try a lighter bullet or the compromise 2alpha spoke of in your limited .40 pistol in order to get rid of the perception you have of having your sights take forever to get back down. If not you have probably found the equation to the puzzle of gaining that little bit of an edge that will work for you. (Edited by Hagop at 8:02 pm on Jan. 2, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 ong45, is the 38 supercomp in an open gun? If so it really doesn't apply to this thread because the comp has so much affect. I've really enjoyed this thread Hagop, you've had some good points and questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bulm5 Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I have recently switched from shootign 180 FMJ to 200 precision. AS my gun is a lighter gun , it seem to have reduced the muzzle flip. It has more of a push. I think I am going to stick with this load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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