Reliability and STI 2011 9MM's

[CANDERSEN]

I am contemplating building a 5 inch 9mm and am giving thought to using a STI "short block" with a 2011 high capacity frame.

One of the things that I was concerned about is the reliability of this system when utilizing the STI high capacity magazine with the spacer in the back.

The gun would be for duty use and will need to be extremely reliable with hollowpoint ammunition.

I have build several single stack 9mm 1911 and have been satisified with the reliability - when using the Metalform/Springfield type magazines.

I would be interested in hearing about your experiences regarding STI high capacity 9mm's.

Thanks Chris

[MikeFoley]

The key to making this work is in the parts and the "tuning". Howard Smith builds lots of 9mm mags. If I were building one with reliability being paramount, and carry being the purpose, I would use 126mm tubes and Grams 9mm spring and followers. The spacer of choice would be the Joey Hardy 140 cut to length if you use STI tubes, or if you use SV tubes, no spacer is required. I would use a flat basepad, and since most of them are plastic, I would use a Bolen 3mm aluminum pad. If you build your "spare" mags as 140mm, then the Shooters Connection flat aluminum basepad would work well. Just my .02 cents worth, get them tuned and polished.

[GentlemanJim]

When you have to bet your life on your firearm...I am not sure that would be the best choice in guns.

Choose wisely my Friend.

Jim

[Scout454]

I have one. A factory built Eagle. It has over 3,000 rounds through it without a hickup. At least 1,000 of those were hollow points. In addition, I put a box or two of the Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket's through it along with various other hollowpoints without a hitch. I've used STI and SVI 126's, 140's and 170's without a problem. I use the metal spacers that Dawson sells in the STI tubes and Dawson wedge or plus 1's.

[G-ManBart]

I don't get much choice in what I carry, but I don't think I'd be too interested in carrying a 2011 in either 9mm or .40 using factory ammo. My Edge runs factory ammo like a top, but not all will...and less of those in 9mm will run as reliably.

Now if you really want a hot combo, go with a 2011 in .38 Super and use Cor-Bon ammo and you've got an extremely powerful, reliable combination. R,

[Anthony Lombardo]

I have an EGW built SVI 9mm 5" that runs like a HOSE with Grams tuned 126mm mags, Grams followers, and solid aluminum basepads from relic custom in australia. Great, heavy duty pads.

The gun is utterly reliable with ANY 9mm factory ammo. But there is a secret.

It takes $120 mags. Thats the secret

Although it is smoking reliable, its still not duty rated in my opinion. Too many things that can go wrong with an S_I--screws that come loose, mags that can hit the ejector, sensite mags,

Stick with a single stack for a carry gun. If you want a reliable hi-cap, single action 9mm go with a Hi-Power or CZ or even a USP.

[steel1212]

Let me ask you guys something. How many rounds do you put through a gun before you consider it match ready? Most of the time we are not going to take a brand spanking new gun to a match and expect it to be 100% from the factory...usually. Now say you bought a Bedell, even though its a Bedell I still would want to put some of my reloads through it to make sure.

With that said, surely to heavens OP wouldn't build said gun slap a mag in it and throw it in the leather....right? Now granted some 2011s don't like factory ammo. If you build a gun for carry I would think you would tune it to run factory length ammo right? Then shoot several hundred of your selected factory loads. Hell I wouldn't carry a glock until I've ran a few hundred rounds through it.

In my 9mm eagle I use good ol' untuned factory STI mags with international pads and the only problem I've had so far was the slide not locking back on old springs. Now would I carry it with those mags and factory JHP, hell no but I don't run factory JHPs through it. I have shot WWB fmjs and those run fine through it though.

After all that I would lean towards Bart's idea. Go with a .38 super with some hot corbon loads and get some SVI mag and load that sucker up. I think I get 18 or 19 9mm in my 126mm mags with international pads. If you just have to run 9mm then I still would use tuned SVI mags and I would say you'll be just as good as a SS in the same caliber.

Edited July 13, 2008 by steel1212

[larry cazes]

Run 38super with one of the rimless case variants like Starline Supercomp or TJ. Any reason why you want to build a 9mm in preference to a 38super?

[pevadijk]

I have a Edge in 9mm...............that didn't work out of the box.

After tensioning the extractor and replacing the mag springs and followers with Grams stuff (and adjusting the feedlips) my gun is utterly reliable.

It has fired about 8000 rounds now, without any faillures.............................................................but since a STI/SVI is much more sensitive, I would simply get a Glock for self-defense.

Edited July 13, 2008 by pevadijk

[HSMITH]

Built right it will be as reliable as anything else. I would not go with the shortblock, I would absolutely insist on cutting the frame myself and timing the barrel myself. That is the real key to making one reliable over the long haul.

I would not use untuned magazines, and I didn't use untuned magazines even for matches before I got into doing them. Eventually everyone comes around to using tuned mags if they are serious to avoid problems or the potential for problems, it is just a matter of time.

[2bigfeet]

I just bought an Edge 9mm from Dawson about a month ago. Didn't want to wait for the enhancement package... just crossed my fingers. I have around 2000 WWB rounds through it now without one single hiccup as well. Ordered a few 140mm stock STI mags... everyone works fine. Came through with a 3 1/4 lb trigger as well.

I read so many negative things about STI's, especially 9mm's that I was paranoid about getting involved with a mess. Not saying it hasn't happened... just saying in my case I couldn't be happier.

[Hany]

In general, I tend to agree with the opinion that if you want to stick with 1911's for carry, a single stack in .45acp is probably the easiest path....

I have seen many a Hicap that didnt run with carry ammo...just as others have noted.

Having said that, I am the lucky owner of an Eagle in 9mm that works perfectly. I bought it used, it was not reliable, and the hammer followed, so I sent it to Ross Carter and it came back hard chromed and perfect... many thousands of rounds later, the only issue that has come up, is failure to lock back with one mag in need of new spring and follower. I guess Im trying to say that they can be made to run well enough to carry, just dont expect it right off. Do I carry it? Yes, from time to time, but generally still rely on a single stack .45 or a G17....

www.northtexastactical.com

[smokshwn]

Built right it will be as reliable as anything else. I would not go with the shortblock, I would absolutely insist on cutting the frame myself and timing the barrel myself. That is the real key to making one reliable over the long haul.

I would not use untuned magazines, and I didn't use untuned magazines even for matches before I got into doing them. Eventually everyone comes around to using tuned mags if they are serious to avoid problems or the potential for problems, it is just a matter of time.

+1 to what Howard has said. A properly built 2011 in 9mm will be just as reliable as any other 1911 platform. The difference lies in who you have build it. The list of those who make 9mm 2011's reliable is somewhat shorter than the other calibers, however they are out there and many can make you very happy.

I will also echo to go with SV mags and have them tuned from the start. This will be the most reliable setup with factory length ammo.

[Johann the Horrible]

If you absolutely have to carry a 9mmP, I would look for something that has been designed for 9mmP. I carry a 45ACP built on a old Para frame if for some reason my snubby 357 seems inappropriate. If you go in harms way for a living your system needs to be absolutely 100%. 99.999999999% is not good enough.

[SharonAnne9x23]

I do not carry for a living. I DO however carry a Para P14 and DO bet my life on it. It is also my bedside gun. It is as reliable as any single stack 45 with the benefit of more ammo. Is there some reason you must have a 9mmP?

Blessed Be

SharonAnne

[CANDERSEN]

I appreciate all of the advise and information.

I had carried a 1911 .45 for the past 25 years on the job. for the last couple of years I have been carrying a 9mm 1911. I found that I could shoot it faster and be more accurate with it then my .45. I dont think that Iam giving much - with good quality +p hollowpoint ammo - while gaining the above mentioned speed and accuracy. I have found that my single stack 9mm with correct mag tuning runs 100%. I have had to use this weapon in deadly force encounters and am very comfortable with it.

I thought that an STI in 9mm with 17 rounds would be even better - but am not sure that the reliability is there.

[RV man]

I have been shooting a 9mm eagle I got from Brazos in April. I had to add extractor tension to run my reloads, but now it runs 100%. It has power steering and brakes and has improved my shooting a bunch. I often carry it instead of my Wilson CQB because I drive the STI much better. I didn't really intend this to be a carry gun, but I tend to want to carry what I run the best.

Just my opinion. YMMV

Bill

[mpeltier]

Might I suggest a caspian framed High cap 9mm build. The caspian was designed around the 9mm round and mags are specific to the caliber, no spacer needed. Mags are readily available and the ones ive purchsed needed no tuning at all. Properly built it is as realiable as any pistol out there. Whatever you decide, pick your gunsmith well.

[al503]

Talk to Bob at Brazos. I have several of his guns (custom and stock) in 9mm. All of them are 100%

[CANDERSEN]

I had not considered a Caspian hi-capacity in 9MM. I have seen them on their website and noted that the magazines were for 9mm/38super and thought that without a rear spacer a 9mm round would have to handloaded "extra long" for it to run.

Does anyone else have any experience with Caspian hi-capacity 9mm's - particulary when running hollowpoint ammo?

I like working with Caspian and would use their hi-capacity frame/magazines - if it were relaible.

Thanks Chris

[TMC]

I guess I've been lucky. I have 3 S_I guns in 9mm and all run fine. I built them but I'm not a professional gunsmith.

The first was originally a super I rebarrel to 9mm, with the same 5 SV mags I used for super. I've had no problems putting 9's in them with no changes. I had one STI 170 mag that would stop in the middle with both rounds but HSMITH cured that one.

The other is a SV Limited 40 with IBF that I converted to 9mm. With the one STI 126mm any of the 5 STI 140mm mags it runs fine. None of the mags have been tuned.

The last is my STI steel gun which also uses the same STI mags and runs 9mm without issue.

All of these guns will shoot any ammo, the open ammo with 124 Zero JHP's or 124 and 115 grain round nose in other loads. All of my ammo is loaded to factory lengths.

I would say build it/have it built and try it out first before fixing it.

[buddy_fuentes]

I've seen too many of the S_I guns in the steel matches to think they are unreliable. I know a police officer that shoots matches with the gun that he carries. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one and after break in...I would carry it. (I would have Howard Smith work over the mags)

Buddy

Edited July 18, 2008 by buddy_fuentes

[mpeltier]

The caspian 9mm/38 super mags do not need to have 9mm ammo loaded long to function. I have used all manor of factory as well as standard (not loaded long) reloads and not had any issues. It simply runs like a swiss watch. The caspian frame has unique features that I desired and it felt mutch better in my hand than anything else available in the 1911 platform. See if you can find one to get your hands on.

[RangerTrace]

I have a Tripp tuned/chromed Eagle in 38 Super that I carry on duty. The pistol itself is extremely reliable and funtions/shoots as good as my Baer or Wilson. I decided to carry the Eagle because of all the practice I do with an Edge. I wanted to keep my duty gun and competition gun as similar as possible. Not to mention that if "IT" ever happens, having lots of bullets in your gun is a good thing!!

With that said, I do have a gremlin floating around in some of my 126 mm magazines. Just as soon as I recover from a pistol purchase, they are going to spend a few days with HSMITH.

Edited July 20, 2008 by rangertrace

[tk4]

I carry a 9mm STI Tactical on duty. It came from Dawson with the enhancement package. I added two things for reliability, a thumb shield and an aftec extractor. It runs great with all my factory sti mags. I am as comfortable in this guns reliability as the glocks and sigs I have run in the past. I could not say that before it had the thumb shield and aftec. I also have a custom 2011 9mm I have had for about 8 months and about 14000 rounds. It is extremely reliable also. Get one and put rounds through it until you feel comfortable.

I chose a 9mm for a duty gun for the same reasons you listed.