July

[Duane Thomas]

Well, guys and gals, I'm off to the Factory Gun Nationals for the second year in a row. (Won't be back until the evening of the 5th.)  In the spirit of the event, I offer July's Win a Book contest. Last year at the Factory Nats I interviewed many "name" shooters - and some emerging names - to get their thoughts on the state of USPSA, the three new divisions, the very existence of a first-ever Factory Nationals. It was absolutely fascinating for me. I wrote an article on the topic for Front Sight. It was never published, which I understand. I hadn't warned them I was doing this - which was dumb of me - they didn't have room to publish it. Just so I can get some use out of this thing, and so the public can hopefully enjoy it because there is some great stuff in there, this month's WaB contest is to name each of the 12 interview subjects. (Clue:  with one exception, these are all Super Squad members.) Yes, some of these are total gimmes, but after last month I figure you've got that coming.

Just to cut out some repetition, so I don't have to type it over and over again, you should know the first question I asked, almost every time, was, "What do you think about there being a first-ever Factory Nationals? Good idea, bad idea?"

Let the games begin!

CONVERSATIONS WITH CHAMPIONS

Interviews at the Factory Gun Nationals

by Duane Thomas

PHIL STRADER

PS: It's a great thing. Entry level people get a chance to compete in a world class competition with the best shooters, using basically the same equipment. The only complaint I heard out here was single-stack versus high cap which always seems to come up. However that didn't seem to really matter since Robbie won it with a single-stack .45! He just made fewer mistakes than everyone else.

DT: You like the new divisions?

PS: Given the difficulty of obtaining high cap mags, and the single-stack .45 being one of the most popular firearms in the world, Limited-10 opens up a huge market in competition shooting. Production, obviously that's a no-brainer. We're bringing in major manufacturers, trying to get them reintroduced and reinvolved in USPSA. This used to be THE practical shooting sport back in the mid '80s, late '80s, early '90s. Hopefully, matches like this can get them back into the fold.

LISA MUNSON

LM: Y'know, when you come out to something like this: we're drawing in a new crowd of people. If we can get new people into the sport, that's the name of the game, we want to keep the sport growing and not dying.

DT: What do you think about Production?

LM: It's a good way to get some entry level people, who just have the guns they purchased at a gun store, that they don't want to spend hundreds of dollars modifying. And when they play the game, then they can upgrade their equipment: there's more categories out there!

DT: The serious Production guys will tell you this is not an entry level category. There are good shooters who shoot Production.

LM: Sure. And you're going to have crossovers, the guys who shot well in the categories that already existed, and now want to see how well they can do with a Production gun. In some ways they're the purists of the sport, they're thinking, "I want to get back to my roots, back to a gun I might actually carry, and have a carry weight trigger on this thing." They want to see how well a Production gun can be shot. New shooters learn from watching the top shooters. They want to watch top shooters run the same stage they just did: "What did they do, how did they do it?" New shooters in Production can say, "Gee, here's the top Production guy. He's the King of the Hill. Let's see how he approaches the stage with his Production gun. How well can it be done?" From your very first day in the sport you're trying to climb that hill, to be the best you can be. And it's fun to watch people who are very good at it, and say, "Wow, if I can get to be that good someday..." I don't really think the attitude should be like, "Production is the new shooter's sandbox. What are those bastard Grand Masters doing in our category, it's for newbies only." Production is a category for the equipment, not the skill set.

ROB LEATHAM

RL: This is the kind of equipment I shoot most of the year - I'm shooting .45s. Over probably the last eight or ten years the Nationals developed to the point where you pretty much had to have the high-capacity guns holding 20-plus rounds to be competitive. Like everybody else I had to go to that stuff. The first few years, both Jerry and I shot .45s and then .40s for awhile, and you couldn't be competitive - but those are the kind of guns I like the best. They're still real guns. This match is simply coming back to the equipment I started shooting, that I was first interested in, that I like better. And now we're back there again.

DT: How did you feel when they introduced the three new divisions of competition?

RL: I think it's the future of the sport. If you ask me, you're going to see a great turnout for the Open/Limited Nationals this year. HOWEVER for the club level shooter, the division that matters most is Production. Production is more important than any of the other divisions. The average new shooter coming to a match, he's going to have a SIG or a Glock or a Beretta or an XD or something like that. For a Nationals category it's probably less critical to have Production, but for a club level match, that's what the club needs, the new shooter.

RICH BITOW

RB: The match is fine, the weather is terrible. I'm about to melt. And I found I melt from the brain down. Jerry Miculek's got me by a good margin. I'm just going to shoot the rest of the day and have a lot of fun. Got the shock of my life, coming to a big match, first Nationals I've ever been to, finding out I'm shooting on the Super Squad with everyone I've read about all these years. Turned out to be really a nice bunch of people.

DT: What do you think about the three new divisions, Limited-10, Production, Revolver?

RB: I like the new classes, obviously, because I'm a revolver shooter. I don't think Revolver is really going to do well for awhile. It's too labor intensive. Not very many people are willing to take the time to really learn how to shoot a revolver. Plus they've got the obstacle of trying to get around Jerry Miculek. It'll be rough, but I think we'll grow. I'd like to see the sport grow, including Revolver.

DT: So you think it's Limited-10 and Production that'll bring in new shooters?

RB: I hope they do. It's really going to depend on the members. They've got to be helpful and encouraging, they've got to support new shooters instead of what happens sometimes which is cruel and unusual punishment.

TODD JARRETT

TJ: My personal feelings, I think this match is here to stay. It's only going to grow. This is a learning curve year for the organization in general, but I dearly, truly believe, in a couple of years we could have a Factory Nationals that could hold 500 competitors - and be packed with guys ready to shoot. Oh yeah. I predict that in the next few years this is going to become THE premier match in the world, the one everyone wants to shoot, right here: the Factory Nationals.

JERRY MICULEK

JM: It's kind of exciting. It's kind of late, as far as I'm concerned. I've been shooting a revolver here forever, I'm kind of over the peak and now they have a Nationals for me.

DT: I don't think you're over the peak.

JM: Eh. I'm just tryin'.

DT: How is it firing a revolver against all the guys with the autos out here? Is it more of a level playing field at the Factory Nationals than the Open or Limited Nationals?

JM: If you look at it from one point of view, it is. But from the other point of view, a lot of these positions, I cannot miss. They're six round positions, I have six shots I have to hit something with or I have to eat a reload. The guys in the other divisions have extra ammunition under their finger; I have to shoot perfect. If I drop a shot or miss a target, I have to stand still and do a reload. So the penalty there for me is pretty severe, you're looking at two seconds, where these guys, they just tap the trigger again, 33/100ths of a second and they're gone.

DT: A lot of these stages, they look like they're 6-shot neutral, but they've got like nine shots from one position.

JM: Yeah, but even the 6-shot neutral positions, what you need to understand, I've got to be perfect. My mindset is, I've got see and execute every round. I don't have the luxury of flinging a D and picking it up with an A. I got to eat it or I need to reload. So the level of execution has to be better. It's tough on the competitor knowing it has to be perfect execution every time.

DAVE SEVIGNY

DT: You normally shoot a Glock, all the time. How is it having a Factory Nationals to do that in?

DS: I think it's wonderful.

DT: You like Production division.

DS: Yeah, I shoot a little bit of Limited, too. The only difference in Limited is I put one magazine just to the left of the belt buckle. And I shoot .40 caliber, so I use a Glock 35 instead of a 34 and I can put 21 in the gun. Right now I don't shoot Open, so the 35 is kind of like my Open gun.

DT: You're coming up pretty fast. How long have you been shooting IPSC?

DS: This is my third year in IPSC.

DT: Third year. And you've already got your Master.

DS: GM in Limited. I'm thinking that once they update the site I should have a GM card in Production, it's just a matter of when it shows up.

DT: Do you think Production division is going to be a good thing, as far as getting more people into the sport without having to lay out a lot of money?

DS: I think so. Mostly because the guns that are allowed are something anyone who's legal to own can go out to a gun store and buy. They pick up a gun magazine, the stuff they're reading about could be shot here. Of course you see a lot of Glocks. Glocks are real user friendly. But if you look at the field out here, all the guys who are in the running for the win, everyone's shooting something different. It's really neat to see such a wide variety of pistols being used at the Factory Nats. The industry is well represented here.

TRAVIS TOMASIE

TT: Great idea. I like it a lot.

DT: What do you think about the three new divisions, Limited-10, Production, Revolver?

TT: Personally I like them. I think Production will go a long way toward promoting the sport, and bring in a lot of additional sponsors. We'll hopefully get some of the bigger companies involved.

DT: It's kind of interesting to come to a match where not everyone's firing the same kind of gun.

TT: It's very interesting.

DT: How does that affect how you shoot - or does it?

TT: It doesn't affect how I shoot...but one thing I don't like about it is not having all the best shooters in the same division. I like it when everyone is shooting together better. But I think the advantages the new divisions bring with them will offset that. Overall I think it's a positive thing.

JERRY BARNHART

JB: It's a good idea to have Production class out here, to get factory guns involved. They also have Limited-10 and Revolver here, as well. I don't know if you'll ever get a whole Nationals that'll fill up with all factory guns, they'll have to keep the other categories involved. But I like the idea. Production and Revolver give entry level people a place to start. Once they try that, maybe they'll want to shoot Limited-10. You won't have to spend as much money on gear. It's going to open the game up for more people.

DT: You think Production is going to bring a lot of new people into the sport?

JB: Duane, I see people here I've never seen before. A lot of people who don't normally come and shoot this stuff. You've got guys from IDPA who are coming out and shooting here now, too. It's not exactly the same game but the gear's pretty close to being the same, so they don't have to go buy something new to start shooting IPSC.

DT: Is there anything else you'd like to add about the match, or the new divisions?

JB: I guess the only thing, as far as the match goes: I think it's a deceptively easy match. The targets are all fairly close but they have some of the shots tightened up with no-shoots. There's a good standards here, it's tough, it's going to keep a lot of people honest. And I think it should be tough. Whether I shoot it well or not, it's a good test of shooting abilities, it should be in there. I'm happy to see that. We've got some runnin' and gunnin', there's some stand-up positions. There's finally some more strong hand and weak hand in the match which needs to be there. It's kind of getting back to the grass roots of things a bit more, which is a good idea for the future.

DT: Someone said to me yesterday that because a lot of the stages out here are kind of back to the basics of shooting, it's a good match because the lower skill level shooters can come in, they can at least do decent. It's not something only the GMs can do well on.

JB: No, it's not over a lot of people's heads, I think. But there are options on how to shoot every stage. They're not all absolutely cut and dried. When you get to this level of a match, they don't want to have it TOO easy. You should leave here feeling like, "I have things I should still be working on."

DT: I know I do.

JB: And I do, too. It's a fair match for most people. The Revolver shooters are getting cut short in a few places, because there are eight shots in some of the "six shot" positions. But it's hard to make a match fair enough for everybody. If you're testing the top level shooters a lot, it's too difficult for everybody else. If you back off on the difficulty level slightly, where it's still a challenge for us but not that hard, we'll just shoot it faster. So we're still being tested, no matter what.

ERNEST LANGDON

EL: I like it. It's just, personally, I don't think "Factory Gun" is a very solid name. The Production guys are shooting factory guns and the Revolver guys are, kind of. But Limited-10 is not a factory gun. It's a little bit of a facade, the name, to make people feel good about it.

DT: Originally it was going to be called the "Street Gun Nationals."

EL: That would be even worse. People don't carry 1911s with 10-round magazines sticking out of the butt on the street. The gun I'm shooting out here is the gun I carry, I just had to pull the rubber bumper pads off the mags - and I can only load 10 rounds in them. The holster I'm using is one I've carried on the street.

DT: Actually, I do carry the single-stack .45 I'm shooting out here in Lim-10. Though I am using the 10-round mags, I'll admit.

EL: But you don't carry it in that Safariland race rig, do you?

DT: No. So you started out in IPSC, then you started specializing in IDPA, and now you're back to IPSC.

EL: Well I started out shooting, teaching an anti-terrorism shooting program for the Marine Corps. I shot IPSC at Quantico there, at that local club. I got fairly involved in that, just to try to take my personal shooting to the next level. Then I got out of the Marine Corps and went to work for Beretta. When they started IDPA in '97 I almost felt like they made a sport for me because that's exactly what I did in the Marine Corps, I taught people how to carry concealed, draw from concealment, I was shooting a Beretta all the time. It was like, "Hey, it's awfully nice of them to make a sport based on what I did for years and years." I'm shooting a lot of IPSC this year because I'm going to the World Shoot in South Africa. That's going to be a huge match for me, and I need to be ready for it.

DT: Do you like the fact there's a Production division in USPSA now?

EL: Oh absolutely. Most definitely. I think it's one of the smartest things they've done in years. There are 70-plus Production shooters here. It's brought a lot of sponsors back who'd kind of lost interest in IPSC and USPSA.

MICHAEL VOIGT

DT: So how does it feel to be at the first-ever Factory Nationals?

MV: It looks like a pretty good match, everybody seems to be excited about it. We've got 19 Revolver shooters which is probably the most we've had at a Nationals in the last 10 years - from that standpoint it's been really successful. And we're getting really good media coverage. We're exposing some new manufacturers to the sport. Nothing but pluses, from what I hear. Now after the match I'm sure I'll hear a few complaints....

DT: Did you push for the three new divisions?

MV: Yeah. My thing is: we need to shoot. We have a lot of in-fighting between IDPA and USPSA and the other disciplines, and there's no reason for it. We have a lot of ICORE members, I shot the IDPA Nationals, I shoot a lot of the other disciplines, there's no real difference for me. We've had people make analogies like, "IDPA is the farm league and IPSC is the major leagues, and cowboy shooting's the retirement league," as far as people going through the handgun shooting sports. I don't think any of those sports are better or worse than the others. Same thing with GSSF, the Glock shooting. If we get people involved in shooting, they'll pick and choose. What we'll find out is, as soon as people get into IDPA or IPSC, they want to shoot. If their club holds an IPSC match the first weekend of the month and an IDPA match the second weekend and a Glock match the third weekend and a cowboy shoot the next weekend....they'll go shoot every weekend. And that's just fine. What they shoot is of no concern. In any of the new divisions, any IDPA shooter can use his exact same equipment, the same ammo, everything else, come right over here and shoot our sport and vice versa.

DT: What do you think is the future of Production division, do you see it growing?

MV: It should. It's been growing slowly, but it's brand-new for us. My big deal was, I said, "The largest handgun manufacturer in the world is Glock. They sell more Glocks in a week than, probably, 1911s are sold in a month or possibly a year." And we didn't have a division they were really competitive in. Glock has always been a good supporter of ours, but we really wanted to make a place for their guns. That's Production. Same thing, our whole sport was based on a single-stack 1911 but we'd kind of pushed it out of the way, though course design and such. So we came up with Limited-10. Some guys out here are shooting single-stack guns, just with 10-round magazines. Others are shooting their regular Limited guns, just loading 10 rounds.

If you show up at this match with a handgun and complain you can't shoot it competitively - it's because you can't shoot. It's not because you got out-gamed or someone had a better gun. Stock guns, out-of-the-box, are as competitive as they get in Production and Revolver. We allow some modifications just because shooters do change sights and trigger parts. We don't want a division you need a special gun to shoot, these are just normal modifications people do to their guns, so we allow them....but we're not wanting $2,000 Glocks. Same with the holster position in Production. Normal holsters are just as fast as race holsters when you have to carry them behind the hip, so there's no advantage to going with the high dollar items.

DT: You think there are a lot of people out here firing this match because it's a "Factory" Nationals?

MV: We have different crowds of people who come to the various Nationals. At the Limited and Open Nationals, we have typically 300 to 350 people show up; there's only about 100 to 150 people who shoot both. Last year we had the back-to-back match in one location, we had a lot more crossover there. But what we're seeing out HERE is there are a lot of people who would like to shoot this match, who wouldn't want to shoot a Nationals in any of the new divisions when they're lumped in with the Limited match. So we're trying to figure out a mix where we can get the most matches out available to the most members. It's an overall plan that seems to be working: new divisions, new people coming into the sport, new sponsors coming into the sport, more media coverage, obviously this should all keep the cycle moving forwards instead ofbackwards.

RON AVERY

RA: I think it's about time. It's a concept that's long overdue. We should have been doing this right from the start. In order to get into this sport before, you had to put out a significant amount of capital toward the gun and magazines if you wanted to compete in the high cap divisions. What I like about the new divisions is the ease with which new people can get into the sport. Now there's a place where they can start with a single-stack gun, or another gun if they wish, and compete on an equal footing where the guns' capacities are the same. We're not into this "gimmick" stuff, it's all about shooting ability. I'd like to see Limited-10 become a single-stack only division; and also keep Production.

DT: Shooting a single-stack .45 is pretty much your thing. How do you like doing that at a national championships?

RA: I love it. I teach a lot of tactical stuff, law enforcement classes, some military work, and these are guns I carry. I carried a single-stack .45 on duty as a police officer for a lot of years, I still use it as a concealed carry gun. It's nice to be able to take basically the same gun, and with very few modifications, shoot it and get some really effective training time while competing with some of the greatest guys in the world, as far as being sportsmen as well as shooters. Some big egos, and they all want to win, but they're not cutthroat about it. And let me tell you, that's a rare thing in any sort of competitive endeavor.

DT: What do you think about Production division - good idea?

RA: It's a great idea. Again, it's something we should have done quite awhile ago because that's where a lot of our sponsorship will come. I believe in the coming years you'll see Production start to dominate the other divisions, simply because of its sponsor support. Gun companies now have a place in USPSA where they can market their wares. Production division will get a lot larger, once gun companies start increasing the incentives to be there. And that's coming. It's not a beginner division; it's a very highly competitive division. Some of the top guys in Production are very good shooters indeed. To be able to pick up a gun, basically box stock and shoot it in these types of matches, that's a challenge in and of itself. It also allows us to have diversity in the Nationals, with guns other than 1911-style. That's healthy for the sport, overall.

[TDean]

How'bout this to start things off....

#1 ?

#2 ?

#3 Rob

#4 Rich B.

#5 ?

#6 Jerry M.

#7 David S.

#8 ?

#9 ?

#10 E. Langdon

#11 Voight

#12 ?

[BigDave]

some educated guessing

1 - TJ

2 - TGO

3 - TGO

4 - Rich B.

5 - Voigt

6 - Jerry M

7 - Sevigny

8 - Voigt

9 - Burner

10 - Langdon

11 - ?

12 - R. Avery

[wide45]

Will no one else take a shot?

2 replies. That's not a lot.

Its all just for fun.

A book to be won.

So post your guess, who said whot?

[tightloop]

Wide45

Who knew

I've no clue

About this mess

I've no guess

"Tis why I'm blue

[tightloop]

July is gone and August is here

The time for NEW trivia, I feel is near

To the refuse heap, the quotes are cast

The month to ID them now is past

Now that they're gone, we've nothing to fear

[benos]

Since Duane has the answers, he said he would "judge" this month's winner. It shouldn't be too difficult, with only two brave entries. Personally, I really enjoyed reading and wondering about the quotes, but I guess it was too much for most folks...

I have an idea for next month; it's kind of a "spot the loony" (Monty Python) contest. But it will take me some time to get it built and posted, because I'm up to my ass right now trying to get the site/store moved.

be

[Duane Thomas]

This month's winner is BigDave with 7 correct answers versus TDean's 6.

ANSWER KEY

1. Phil Strader.

2. Lisa Munson.

3. Rob Leatham.

4. Rich Bitow.

5. Todd Jarrett.

6. Jerry Miculek.

7. David Sevigny.

8. Travis Tomasie.

9. Jerry Barnhart.

10. Ernest Langdon

11. Michael Voigt

12. Ron Avery

Now that we're done, I'm going to go back to the first post and add these names to the interviews, as well.

[benos]

7 and 6 out of 12 - impressive work considering the difficulty factor. BigDave, send me your info and I'll send you the big prize, or if you need a XXL T, I got a shitload in stock thanks to my fraud Nigerian order. (Mentioned elsewhere...)

[BigDave]

wow, it only took me over 2 years to win this thing!!!

[tightloop]

Way to go, Big Dave. The second one is lots easier, unless Duane has more of those quotes.