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over & under Shotgun


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My fiancee just bought a Guerini. I don't know what the cheapest you can get one for. I've got a line on a used one that I'll purchase at Sporting Clays Nationals in Oct for $ 2200.

It has improved my scores on Sporting Clays significantly. I was breaking 40-45% before. This past weekend I hit 74 on Sat. & 61 on Sunday. I never thought that a gun could make that much difference. I had been shooting my Rem 11-87.

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Shot them all, owned most of them at one time or another. 682's probably best competition gun for the money (kinda breaks bank but not like the Italians or Germans). Buy what fits you if you can't afford or don't want to have stock work done. IMO the SKB (or Weatherby) configuration is very user friendly and a bargain in the O/U world. I like that lower profile receiver much better than the Citori's. Oh yea, If you buy something because it feels great in the store, but you can't shoot it - sell it - get something that works for you!

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Interesting comments for the Beretta 682 series of OUs. I seldom see these at the GA shoots - we must be missing something. I suggest that you look for a big shoot in your area and then see what everyone is shooting. You are in SC? See how far you are from Backwoods Quail and Sporting Clays - they are hosting the ZONE 4 Sporting Clays Championship in mid-September. There will be lots of shotguns there to lust over from 391s to K80s.

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Interesting comments for the Beretta 682 series of OUs. I seldom see these at the GA shoots - we must be missing something. I suggest that you look for a big shoot in your area and then see what everyone is shooting. You are in SC? See how far you are from Backwoods Quail and Sporting Clays - they are hosting the ZONE 4 Sporting Clays Championship in mid-September. There will be lots of shotguns there to lust over from 391s to K80s.

I have been out of town no computer.and I used to live within five miles from backwoods know it well,,and A lot of those guys have BIG MOOONEY thanks Eddie

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Check the Social Shooting Club webpage classifieds. There is always a selection of Sporting Clays shotguns for sale. It is a GA organization but we're not that far from SC.

The website is http://www.socialshootingclub.org/ForSaleWantedNotices.php

Actually SSC is head quartered in GA but also includes AL, FL, TN and even SC. :)

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My fiancee just bought a Guerini

I've shot a couple of Guerini's and they appear to be a very nicely constructed gun. I think you'll be seeing more of these on the range.

When you talk 682s now, you have to detail when they were made. The "newer" 682 Gold, etc are different balanced guns than the older ones...much different...as is the price.

IMHO, at the current 682 prices, the 686 series is a much better buy. Same internals as the 682, different look, balance, etc...but very similiar overall. I think you'll find the 686 types almost $2,000 cheaper.

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Well, after doing a lot of research we have found all the 6xx series beretta’s to kick like hell even after being fitted. I have also found that DT-10 beretta is NOTHING at all like the 6xx series guns. That gun is one of the softest recoiling guns I have shot. I was dead set on a blaser F3 before I got to shoot one for 4 rounds of skeet and kicked more than my Browning Cynergy . Guns that seem to be a great deal for the price are Caesar Guerini, DT-10 beretta (more pricey), SKB 85s (copy of a DT-10) and Browning Cynergy. My wife ended up with Caesar Guerini and my daughter with a DT-10, and I am staying with old Browning. Its not doing to bad since we glued the ejector pins in!

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I must admit I am not a hardcore clays shooter. A couple of months ago I decided I just had to have an O/U. I tried several different brands from Brownings to Berettas. They all had one thing in common- they kick. I don't care whose recoil pad you put on they still kick. I wound up getting a Stoeger 3000 for a steal at Dick's. With a $50 rebate and a little haggling over a tiny rust spot on the barrel I have less than $300 in it. Yes, I know it probably won't last as long as the high dollar guns, but OTOH I have a fraction of the money in it that a Beretta would cost. I really liked a 20 ga Silver Pigeon.

Here's the bottom line - nothing is as soft shooting as my old trusty 1100. It goes bang every time I pull the trigger. I do have to laugh a little at the comments on how they won't last. That is utter nonsense. Mine is close to 20 yrs old and has had exactly one failure to eject in close to 100,000 rounds. I can't begin to count how many dove and quail it has taken.

I take one box of shells to the dove field every year. I have managed to get my limit with it every year for the last 10.

Edited by Joe D
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"Here's the bottom line - nothing is as soft shooting as my old trusty 1100. It goes bang every time I pull the trigger. I do have to laugh a little at the comments on how they won't last. That is utter nonsense. Mine is close to 20 yrs old and has had exactly one failure to eject in close to 100,000 rounds."

Wow, I am a big fan of the 1100 too - I shoot Remington 1100 Sporting Clays 20 and 28 gauges in sub-gauge events. 100,000 rounds divided by 20 years is 5000 rounds per year or about 100 rounds per week. You must be a very active trap or skeet shooter.

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If you are set on an over/under let me suggest a Marlin Model 90 single trigger. I bought one with 30" barrels at Scheel's in Eau Claire, WI for under $300.00. It is choked modified and full, with the lower (mod) barrel firing first. Made between 1937 and 1959 the single trigger models are in the later part of that production. You can see several for sale at Gunbroker.com most of the time.

There is small but very loyal following for these, my gunsmith thinks very highly of them. I tried my first real trap league this past few weeks. I shot my new Benelli M2, my Benelli Nova, an Ithaca 37, a Browning 2000 (a very fine semi-auto). But I set a personal record with my Marlin, and then broke it every week I fired it.

Try these links:

Marlin 90 engraved at GunBroker

Or this one, a twin of mine

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I'd like to hear more about the reason why the 6xx series Berettas kick more than other makes and models. I'm aware that they have a shallower receiver than a Browning, which I thought was considered superior in a well-made gun. I shoot a Browning and have only fired Berettas a few times.

I've always heard that correct stock dimensions and fit(especially pitch) was the answer to a nasty kicking gun. This is the first time I've read about Berettas having bad recoil. What is the reason?

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I'd like to hear more about the reason why the 6xx series Berettas kick more than other makes and models. I'm aware that they have a shallower receiver than a Browning, which I thought was considered superior in a well-made gun. I shoot a Browning and have only fired Berettas a few times.

I've always heard that correct stock dimensions and fit(especially pitch) was the answer to a nasty kicking gun. This is the first time I've read about Berettas having bad recoil. What is the reason?

1. Browning receiver places the barrels higher so you should get more kick, but the balance of a browning is on the nose so it does off set recoil. Wife’s Browning Ultra Plus 8lbs 8oz.

2. Beretta’s 6xx series have light easy to swing barrels and even have a pretty low receiver. Should have less recoil but you don’t, the balance of the gun is way back on your shoulder. 682 gold e Sporting 7.6 lbs

3. Beretta’s DT-10 light barrel for easy swing but it has a heavy receiver but very well balanced right at the break open. My Daughter’s DT-10 8.0lbs

4. FIT IS EVERYTHING IN SHOTGUN! I always said that was crap and you should be able to shoot any shotgun! Wrong!!!!!

One thing everyone has to remember.......Never ask a skeet shooter what gun has more recoil! Almost everyone of them shoot ultra light loads and have no clue.

Find a trap or sporting clays guy!

Edited by MarkS_A18138
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There is no reason that a Beretta "kicks" harder than others.

Felt recoil is, indeed, "felt" and ask 10 different people which guns kick harder and you might get 10 different answers.

K-80's are generally thought to be the "softest shooters", by almost anyone I've talked to. On average, they also weigh about 8 3/4+ lbs. Shoot the same shell through an 8lb Beretta, and you bet it will kick more.

Stock designs, for trap guns in particular, affect felt recoil. Use a parallel stock, same drop at comb and heel, and the gun recoils away from your cheek. Put some drop at the heel and the the stock recoils into your cheek...good for keeping your face on the stock for a second shot.

I don't "buy" or put any credence into high or low receivers affecting recoil to be honest. Maybe it's mathematically possible to reduce some felt recoil or muzzle flip on a lower axis, but I'd bet it's on the level on lengthening forcing/backboring/porting cones to reduce recoil. Meaning, if you "tell" someone that it does, it does! Don't tell them, and it doesn't.

I've "read" from an well known gun reviewer that barrel heavy guns kick more than evenly balanced O/U's. That's contrary to one poster's comments and I'm not disagreeing, simply noting that "felt recoil" feelings is more "art" than science...IMHO of course.

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Felt recoil is indeed what each shooter "feels" and depends on a host of factors including your load. The bottom line is that before you act on the way others may perceive as being the recoil of the gun, shoot it yourself and see what you thing. I can shoot one of my Beneili Black Eagle 2s and not feel beat up in any way but that is just me. I shoot a Browning 525 but might like a Beretta or I might not. Since I am happy with what I have I see no reason to look to spend additional funds. Placing the barrels lower relative to the receiver was the theory behind the Cnergy introduced by Browning. That might work for some but does not do a thing for me.

Shoot other people's loads and guns. Whatever you buy, if you buy a quality item and want to either trade up or get out later, you will not be sorry.

Keep in mind that it is certainly nice to have several good extended chokes and I have a couple of guns where the chokes are worth more than the guns and you always double this with an O/U.

My final observation is that it is amazing that I see so many of the lighter guns at sporting clays events where folks have added all kinds of recoil reduction products which are in fact weights. IMO some of this stems from shooters going to the gun store, and they like how it handles in the store. After they shoot their second or third 100 bird tournment, they decide they like the idea of the heavier gun which will soften the recoil and swing more evenly. They then add weights to get them to the feeling they could have had to start with for less money.

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I guess what I see in the way of recoil is this. My 1100 is the softest by far, followed by a 11-48. My O/U kicks the hardest by a good margin. I don't shoot light loads. I shoot the load I hunt with. I like 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 oz of 7 1/2 shot at about 1,200 fps.

I have shot some 2 3/4 dram 1,150 - 1,200 fps AA loads with 1 1/8 oz that kicks harder than my 1100 with a 1300+ fps 1 1/4 oz load.

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I guess what I see in the way of recoil is this. My 1100 is the softest by far, followed by a 11-48. My O/U kicks the hardest by a good margin. I don't shoot light loads. I shoot the load I hunt with. I like 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 oz of 7 1/2 shot at about 1,200 fps.

I have shot some 2 3/4 dram 1,150 - 1,200 fps AA loads with 1 1/8 oz that kicks harder than my 1100 with a 1300+ fps 1 1/4 oz load.

I also used to use the loads I hunted with but since I am shooting a lot more clays now and since the price of shotgun shells have gone through the roof, I have found the cheap 1 oz loads break just as many clays for me, are easier on my gun and I, don't break me at the bank, and I have not seen any decrease in my performance hitting a real bird when I go afield with my hunting loads. There is no question that just about any gas gun is going to shoot softer anywhere. I use my O/U since I see many clays stations where it is much easier to use two different chokes.

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I think for Sporting Clays 1 oz would work fine. We have two ranges fairly close. One is pretty easy. I generally get 80-90 birds on it. The other one is a good bit tougher. I shot it for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Only got 76 birds. It has several stations with very fast birds. Several other stations had birds that were hard to see on the overcast day. The first day of dove season is this Saturday. The field was covered up with birds yesterday. The O/U will stay in the safe Saturday.

BTW I am still drooling over the Beretta Silver Pigeon S in 20 ga. So far I have been strong.

If it flys - it dies. I have the bacon ready to wrap the breasts with. :cheers:

Edited by Joe D
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If you are looking at used as well as new guns and will consider autoloaders as well as O/U's...you might try to locate a Winchester Super X Model 1. They were made in field, skeet and trap models. They were also made the way guns used to be made...all forged and milled parts. A little heavy by modern standards because of all the machined steel but the weight will smooth out your swing. Made before the advent of choke tubes, their choke constrictions tend to be a little tighter than what an equivalent constriction might called today. Barrels are thick enough to tube if you want. If I recall correctly, one of the best (multiple time National Champ) Skeet shooters used it to win those championships in 12 gauge division.

Prior to ebay going all gun-stupid you could get all manner of spare parts for very reasonable prices. They're starting to escalate in price...getting up to the $800.00 to $1300.00 range...but a good investment. There's also a few gunsmiths around that specialize in the Model 1, Nu-Line comes to mind as I'm sure some will remember their IPSC conversions of the Super X.

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  • 1 month later...

Bought a "red tag" Beretta 3901 with a synthetic stock for ~ $450.00 at WalMart. Added a few Briley choke tubes and did some patterning.

Nice gas gun. Oddly enough when I point the gun and pull the trigger correctly, the clays break exactly like the $4,000 guns do. Weird huh? ;)

Jim

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I am considering two different O/Us - a Browning 625 Sporting 30" with extended chokes or a Beretta 686 White Onyx Sporting32" with internal chokes. The add external chokes to the Beretta would be about 200 - 300 difference but there would still be about a $500 price differential. Any opinions on either gun, the difference in barrel length (the 30" is on sale so I don't have a choice) or the chokes?

Thanks, Eric

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I am considering two different O/Us - a Browning 625 Sporting 30" with extended chokes or a Beretta 686 White Onyx Sporting32" with internal chokes. The add external chokes to the Beretta would be about 200 - 300 difference but there would still be about a $500 price differential. Any opinions on either gun, the difference in barrel length (the 30" is on sale so I don't have a choice) or the chokes?

Thanks, Eric

I was somewhat in the same situation when I purchased my shotgun regarding barrel length. I elected a 30 inch but might have bought the 32 but they did not have it. I really doubt you are going to be able to tell much difference and depending on your size, you might like the 30 inch better.

I am not really a fan of either the 686 or the 625 for clays although others are. I like the Browning 525 because it weighs more which really helps if you shoot a match where you shoot morning and afternoon two days in a row. Of course others might say the lighter gun is easier to swing and I am not going to disagree with that but I can say I prefer the more substantial feel of the heavier weapon for clays. When I bird hunt, my preference is the lightest gun I can find.

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Just remember the lighter the gun the more it is going to recoil for you. The reason the skeet guns don't kick much at all is if you weigh the top shooters guns you wont find a 1 under 10 pounds. The one I was shoting weighed 12 3/4 pounds. The monte carlo stocks are actually a very good stock to use for all of the clay target sports as the gun will not hit the cheek even with the heavy loads unless the pitch is off no matter where you put your face on the stock. If recoil is a concern shoot ligher loads. There is no reason to shoot the cannons off as they really hurt you more than help you. Krueger was shooting light target loads for years and was managing to win with them. Skeet shooters are going alot to 20 ga for 12 ga or 1oz 12 ga loads. I know when I was shooting skeet big time I shot 1oz in 12 ga and doubles all the time and they would destroy any target out there. The recoil over time causes alot more problems than a little more shot out there or a little faster shot. When you are missing a target that extra shot wouldnt have made a difference as misses generally are a fundamental error and are missed by a good distance not a couple inches

To the guy who liked the DT10, have a look for a use beretta ASE. They are the guns the dt10 replaced in this country and were made in the shop with their SO guns and not with the production 68X series like the DT10s are. They have a very similare feel and are alot more gun for the money. The dt10s arent a bad gun but are a little high for what you get

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