Powder with Fastest Velocity using 55 grain .223?

[Religious Shooter]

Looking for better velocities for my 55 FMJBT loads in .223.

Out of 16" barrel I've gotten:

3155 fps with 26.0 grains A2230- (Book Max)

2943 fps with 25.2 grains of TAC (.1 grain from Book Max)

2886 fps with 25.8 grains of Varget (Couldn't put anymore in the case (LC) without it spilling over.)

Looking to push it as fast as possible while not exceeding the max charge recommended by the manufacturer.

Any other powders you guys can recommend? These 55's will primarily be shot from a 20". If it matters, I will be using CCI SR primers and primarily LC cases.

Thanks.

[Merlin Orr]

Clays....?

[smokshwn]

Try Ramshot X Terminator...I haven't tried it yet but it should be pretty close to the AA2230 velocity

[warpspeed]

VV N135 or N133. published max loads for both are over 3300 fps and that is out of a 12" barrel.

[fastshooter03]

You might be able to get a little more VEL from the N133 or N135 but probably not enough to make up the price difference compared to AA2230 unless it shoots way more accurately which is why I use it.

Nick

[uscbigdawg]

RS - My two favorite powders with 55gr.'s are W748 and H335. They're virtually the same and meter great. You should find some great results.

Rich

[Dan Sierpina]

If you're getting 3100+ fps out of a 16" barrel, you're not going to get much more, and keep using the rifle or brass. If you want more speed, get a longer barrel.

[Big Bore]

If you're getting 3100+ fps out of a 16" barrel, you're not going to get much more, and keep using the rifle or brass. If you want more speed, get a longer barrel.

What he said....

[spd522]

If you're getting 3100+ fps out of a 16" barrel, you're not going to get much more, and keep using the rifle or brass. If you want more speed, get a longer barrel.

Same thing I was thinking.

[Religious Shooter]

How many M193's went through a typical M16? 10's of 1,000's?

It's fairly common to get (X)M193 to shoot 3100+ fps out of a 16" barrel.

So if you can shoot several K's of M193 through an M16... why wouldn't you be able to get even 50-75% of the same in a civilian AR?

... and also take into account that I've already gone through a couple of 1000 of the A2230© loads that give 3100+ fps out of a (my) 16".

If I can gain more FPS by simply switching powders... hell why not?

[kgunz11]

Might wanna add H4895 to that mix.

[spd522]

How many M193's went through a typical M16? 10's of 1,000's?

It's fairly common to get (X)M193 to shoot 3100+ fps out of a 16" barrel.

So if you can shoot several K's of M193 through an M16... why wouldn't you be able to get even 50-75% of the same in a civilian AR?

... and also take into account that I've already gone through a couple of 1000 of the A2230© loads that give 3100+ fps out of a (my) 16".

If I can gain more FPS by simply switching powders... hell why not?

Fastest data I could find for a 55 gr bullet:

Hornady Load Data BL-C2 28.1 gr 3300 fps

26" barrel Rem 700 1/12 twist

Nosler Load Data N135 25.0 gr 3195 fps

24" Lilja barrel 1/12 twist

Sierra Load Data (These for max of 3100 fps)

XMR-2015 25.2 gr

X-Terminator 25.1 gr

AA-2230 26.1 gr

TAC 26.3 gr

VV N135 25.6 gr

20" COLT AR15 1/7 twist

Sierra also lists loads for a Rem 600 bolt gun

but they are also higher pressure. Some of these

loads reach 3300 fps but again in a bolt gun with

1/14 twist 24" barrel.

Speer Load Data 28.0C 748 3313 fps

Ruger 77 MK11 1/12 twist 22 " barrel

Most books suggest slower twists with 55 gr or at least keep

velocity down. Quote from Speer Book:

At 3200 fps out of a 1/7 twist barrel, the bullet

is rotating 300,000 rpm when it leaves the muzzle. This rotation

is more than most varmint bullets can withstand so they are literally

ripped apart as they leave the barrel.

I load 55 gr to shoot out of my ARs at around 2950 fps and they

are extremely accurate in both my 1/12 SP1 and my 1/7 Match HBar.

Hope this gives you some suggestions.

Craig

[Religious Shooter]

Thanks.

As noted, Viht powders can be a bit expensive. Given the price, availability and the application I'm not going to bother with Viht.

I bought some 2015 and some BLC2. I thought I had H4895 on hand. But it turned out to be I4895.

I loaded some rounds up and I'm just waiting to get some time and energy to chrono the rounds.

[mjbine]

From Quick Load -- At least some different starting points.

Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)

Bullet : .224, 55, Mil FMJ - M193

Useable Case Capaci: 26.469 grain H2O = 1.719 cm³

Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm

Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 48125 psi, or 331 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested

loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand

that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet

and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.

USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time

% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms

--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------

SNPE Vectan Sp 7 95.3 24.9 1.62 2848 91.5 48125 10751 0.838 ! Near Maximum !

Accurate 2460 96.3 25.2 1.63 2837 91.4 48125 10615 0.839 ! Near Maximum !

Rottweil R901 100.0 23.2 1.50 2807 92.8 46466 10539 0.863

Accurate 2520 100.0 25.1 1.63 2763 90.1 42112 10634 0.880

Accurate 2495 100.0 23.1 1.50 2672 92.8 36919 10621 0.962

Hodgdon H380 100.0 24.9 1.62 2600 79.1 37565 9685 0.927

Hodgdon H414 100.0 26.0 1.68 2584 74.4 37143 9635 0.928

Norma 203 old 100.0 24.7 1.60 2577 82.5 34768 9902 0.956

Somchem S355 100.0 23.9 1.55 2533 81.3 34074 9470 0.965

IMR 4007 SSC 100.0 24.7 1.60 2528 74.0 37507 8944 0.935

Winchester 760 100.0 25.8 1.67 2499 71.0 34306 9199 0.954

Accurate 4064 100.0 22.8 1.48 2447 84.7 29641 9541 1.043

Vihtavuori N550 100.0 24.9 1.62 2443 73.8 31094 9139 0.994

Rottweil R907 100.0 23.9 1.55 2435 71.8 33877 8499 0.975

Rottweil R903 100.0 23.4 1.52 2414 78.0 29447 9012 1.021

Lovex-S0651 100.0 23.9 1.55 2405 73.8 31709 8535 1.001

Norma URP 100.0 24.1 1.56 2350 70.9 28555 8545 1.026

Hodgdon H4350 100.0 24.3 1.57 2349 67.8 29699 8291 1.009

Lovex-S0701 100.0 24.1 1.56 2349 69.9 29479 8317 1.026

Bofors RP19 ~approximation 100.0 24.1 1.56 2349 70.9 28530 8537 1.026

Norma 204 100.0 25.2 1.63 2340 64.3 30689 7990 1.000

Ramshot Hunter 100.0 25.2 1.63 2329 67.1 28931 8285 1.024

IMR 4350 100.0 23.4 1.51 2287 66.0 27575 7915 1.040

Raufoss RA4 100.0 24.4 1.58 2251 61.9 27782 7513 1.041

Bofors RP4 ~approximation 100.0 24.4 1.58 2251 61.9 27782 7513 1.041

Somchem S365 100.0 24.3 1.57 2246 69.6 25340 8202 1.077

Rottweil R904 100.0 24.1 1.56 2230 61.3 27624 7250 1.045

ADI AR 2209 100.0 24.3 1.57 2219 59.5 26937 7239 1.054

Alliant Reloder-19 100.0 24.4 1.58 2204 60.0 26032 7333 1.070

IMR 4831 100.0 23.4 1.51 2186 66.9 23856 7675 1.105

Bofors RP14 ~approximation 100.0 24.4 1.58 2180 59.4 25490 7168 1.079

Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 100.0 22.8 1.48 2172 68.3 24032 7382 1.100

Accurate 4350 100.0 23.3 1.51 2160 65.2 22667 7756 1.152

Hodgdon Supreme 780 100.0 25.7 1.67 2156 58.9 26122 6921 1.073

Somchem S385 100.0 24.7 1.60 2129 60.4 23564 7155 1.115

Hodgdon H4831 SC 100.0 24.7 1.60 2128 55.4 25181 6641 1.087

IMR 7828 SSC 100.0 25.1 1.62 2093 50.7 24245 6411 1.125

ADI AR 2213 100.0 24.7 1.60 2093 51.4 24156 6377 1.105

Norma MRP 100.0 25.5 1.65 2089 53.4 22894 6862 1.152

Vihtavuori N560 100.0 24.9 1.62 2069 50.3 22673 6538 1.157

Raufoss RA15 100.0 24.7 1.60 2061 53.1 22166 6627 1.170

Alliant Reloder-22 100.0 24.7 1.60 2061 53.1 22166 6627 1.170

Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 100.0 24.7 1.60 2061 53.1 22166 6627 1.170

Vihtavuori N160 100.0 23.4 1.52 2047 56.3 22716 6217 1.135

Hodgdon H4831 100.0 23.7 1.54 2035 52.8 22412 6127 1.139

Rottweil R905 100.0 24.2 1.57 2016 51.0 21601 6216 1.183

Winchester WXR 100.0 24.1 1.56 2002 51.2 20606 6251 1.177

Accurate MAGPRO 100.0 25.9 1.68 1999 46.7 21498 6144 1.184

Vihtavuori N165 100.0 24.1 1.56 1994 55.1 21150 6084 1.168

IMR 7828 100.0 23.7 1.54 1961 46.9 20611 5671 1.208

ADI AP 2214 100.0 25.3 1.64 1910 44.2 20840 5211 1.209

Alliant Reloder-25 100.0 24.3 1.57 1907 47.9 18996 5568 1.221

Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 100.0 26.1 1.69 1882 42.5 20062 5253 1.225

SNPE Vectan SP 12 100.0 26.0 1.69 1878 42.5 19915 5233 1.228

PB Clermont PCL 517 100.0 26.0 1.69 1873 42.2 19828 5201 1.231

Accurate 3100 100.0 23.1 1.50 1829 52.1 16348 5671 1.330

Hodgdon H1000 100.0 24.1 1.56 1801 41.3 17993 4657 1.288

Norma MRP 2 100.0 24.4 1.58 1790 41.1 16677 4976 1.321

Lovex-D1001 100.0 26.3 1.70 1728 36.4 17304 4268 1.314

Vihtavuori N570 100.0 25.7 1.67 1728 33.5 16399 4450 1.329

Vihtavuori N170 100.0 24.1 1.56 1713 39.5 15497 4553 1.366

Hodgdon Retumbo 100.0 24.5 1.59 1710 38.2 15684 4357 1.365

Vihtavuori 24N41 100.0 26.0 1.68 1691 32.5 16655 4006 1.333

ADI AR 2218 100.0 26.0 1.68 1634 29.2 15598 3749 1.367

Hodgdon H870 100.0 25.2 1.63 1582 30.9 13647 3730 1.441

Hodgdon 50BMG 100.0 24.8 1.61 1572 28.2 13915 3528 1.429

Hodgdon US 869 100.0 26.0 1.68 1547 28.8 13692 3424 1.449

SNPE Vectan SP 13 100.0 24.9 1.62 1500 29.7 12424 3303 1.506

PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 100.0 24.9 1.62 1463 28.0 11931 3108 1.532

NC A3502 ,test only 100.0 23.9 1.55 1458 22.5 12667 2697 1.493

Accurate 8700 100.0 25.0 1.62 1439 26.9 11898 2918 1.540

Vihtavuori 20N29 100.0 26.3 1.70 1420 25.1 11670 2893 1.551

TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 100.0 23.9 1.55 1419 22.8 11713 2656 1.542

V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 100.0 23.9 1.55 1083 11.6 7723 1358 1.954

[00bullitt]

Is velocity more important than accuracy?

I can load my 55's to 25.6 grains max with Hodgden Benchmark but get 4.5-5" groups at 100 shooting 3150fps. I can load to 24.0 grains and shoot dime size 5 shot groups at 250 fps less.(2850)

This is out of a 16" 1/8 twist barrel. Same load in a Noveske 18" barrel is 3100 fps.

Is more velocity that much more important?

[Religious Shooter]

Well... that's your call.

My threshold for a long range load is a fast 1.5-2.0 MOA.

As in a 55 that is at 3150+ fps @ 1.5-2.0 MOA is good.

While a 55 at <3050 fps @ 1.50-2.0 MOA is no good.

[00bullitt]

I'll take accuracy over speed at range given the velocity makes PF. My thoughts are that 1.5-2 moa at the range practicing on the bench without stress double after the buzzer goes off. Shooting 10" SOF flash targets at 400......you got some good chance for misses there with 1.5-2 moa

But don't get me wrong......if I could find a load that gave sub-moa performance at max velocity......I would have a jewel.

I prefer to have a half minute load inside 200 and no more than a minute out to 400 and know my dope accordingly.

Edited August 7, 2008 by 00bullitt

[ChristianHE]

I've gotten over 3250 fps with FMJ 55's using Accurate 2520 at 26.0 grains out of my Armalite 20" SPR. (1in9 twist, chrome lined) CCI#450 small rifle mag primers. Very accurate, tiny group at 100m. The 75gr FMJBT's with this propellant and primer are just as tight but at 200m.

Looking for better velocities for my 55 FMJBT loads in .223.

Out of 16" barrel I've gotten:

3155 fps with 26.0 grains A2230- (Book Max)

2943 fps with 25.2 grains of TAC (.1 grain from Book Max)

2886 fps with 25.8 grains of Varget (Couldn't put anymore in the case (LC) without it spilling over.)

Looking to push it as fast as possible while not exceeding the max charge recommended by the manufacturer.

Any other powders you guys can recommend? These 55's will primarily be shot from a 20". If it matters, I will be using CCI SR primers and primarily LC cases.

Thanks.

Edited August 7, 2008 by ChristianHE

[fastshooter03]

2520 is going to be a little slow for the 16" barrel but it does work pretty well in longer barrels and 308 too.

The closest I came to VHIT velocities with 55s was Benchmark at about 3150 fps.

Accuracy was acceptable. 1" or less. but with blitzkings and v-maxes.

Not tried:

H335

H4895

I have a bunch of Data 68(AA2015) powder that I haven't found the max load on yet. I think I'm running 25 grains without the pressure signs I was getting with my Viht max loads(25.8 grains n135-yes it's compressed). If I have time this weekend I'll see if I can blow something up.

Nick

[Robbie Wheaton Jr]

Tried some 08 M193 through one of my 18" barrels the other day and got a 3386 fps 10 shot average. I cannot even come close to this load with any commercially available powders. The ironic thing is the stuff is scary accurate out of all my 1 in 8 twist barrels. Does anyone know what powder is currently used in 08 manufactured M193? I would like to see how it works with some heavier loads if anyone knows which powder is being used. Thanks.

[Dan Sierpina]

Tried some 08 M193 through one of my 18" barrels the other day and got a 3386 fps 10 shot average. I cannot even come close to this load with any commercially available powders. The ironic thing is the stuff is scary accurate out of all my 1 in 8 twist barrels. Does anyone know what powder is currently used in 08 manufactured M193? I would like to see how it works with some heavier loads if anyone knows which powder is being used. Thanks.

Often factories use a non canister grade powder. In other words, powders that are not close enough in burn rate to be a canister grade ( for sale to consumers) or a blend of powders to get the desired velocity/pressure levels.

[duncan]

Lake City has powders too blend that get certain velocity/pressure curves. They also have crimped primer pockets. The avg. vel. of LC in my 16" chrome lined barrels is 3175 fps. Good luck getting anything much higher.

[Religious Shooter]

Went to the range after work. Late in the afternoon. About 70 degrees.

Of the powders I chose and using the max charge from the manufacturer, it looks like H4895 (stick powder) generates the highest velocity and good ole A2230- generates the highest velocity for a ball/flake(?) powder.

A2015 sucks for this application. I'd relegate BLC(2) to 20"+ barrels.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

Hornady 55 FMJBT

16/17" SS 1x8 DPMS Barrel with BH Compensator

DATE POWDER CHRGE BRASS OAL PRIMER VEL STDEV TEMP #SHOTS VEL/GRN PF NOTES

10/3/08 BL-C(2) 27.5 Scharch LC --- CCI 2958 45.7 70 3 107.6 163 Blasty. Weighed charges.

10/3/08 TAC 25.0 Mixed Dillon T 2.23 WSR 2998 29.5 70 3 119.9 165

10/3/08 A2230- 25.0 Scharch LC --- CCI 3036 64 70 3 121.5 167 Weighed charges.

10/3/08 H4895 26.0 Scharch LC --- CCI 3078 19 70 3 118.4 169

20" CM 1x9 DPMS Barrel with BH Compensator

10/3/08 TAC 25 Mixed Dillon T 2.23 WSR 2954 15 70 4 118.2 162

10/3/08 A2015 24 Scharch -- CCI 2927 24 70 3 122.0 161 Weighed charges. Did not lock back. Hot brass.

10/3/08 TAC 25.3 ?? -- CCI 2962 28 70 3 117.1 163

10/3/08 BLC(2) 27.5 Scharch -- CCI 3016 34 70 3 109.7 166 Weighed charges.

10/3/08 A2230- 25 LC Dillon -- ?? 3062 14 70 3 122.5 168 Weighed charges.

10/3/08 H4895 26 Scharch -- CCI 3102 8 70 3 119.3 171 Weighed charges.

[Religious Shooter]

Got a new upper. Newest max book data for 55 and TAC is now 26 grains. Also had some left over X-terminator from the work up for my Grendel. So...

18" DPMS SS, 1x8 with TSS comp. Pre-Primed (CCI) Scharch LC cases. PRIVI 55 FMJBT. 70 degrees.

DATE.BULLET WEIGHT/TYPE/BRAND.POWDER BRAND/CHARGE.CASE.COAL.PRIMER.AVERAGE VELOCITY.STD DEV.TEMP.# OF SHOTS.FPS PER GRAIN.POWER FACTOR

5/2/10 55 FMJBT PRIVI A2230- 25.0 Scharch LC 2.24-25 CCI 3048 14 70 3 121.9 168

5/2/10 55 FMJBT PRIVI TAC 25.5 Scharch LC 2.24-25 CCI 2985 42 70 3 117.1 164

5/2/10 55 FMJBT PRIVI TAC 26.0 Scharch LC 2.24-25 CCI 3058 36 70 3 117.6 168

5/2/10 55 FMJBT PRIVI TAC 26.0 Scharch LC 2.24-25 CCI 3060 16 70 3 117.7 168

5/2/10 26 TAC book max for 55 SIE BK.

5/2/10 55 FMJBT PRIVI X-Terminator 25.3 Scharch LC 2.24-25 CCI(s) 3109 8 70 3 122.9 171

5/2/10 55 FMJBT PRIVI X-Terminator 25.3 Scharch LC 2.24-25 CCI(s) 3116 15 70 3 123.2 171

5/2/10 25.3 X-Terminator book max for 55 SIE BK.

So of the ball type powders I've used X-Terminator has the fastest velocity when restricted to book max.

Strangely enough X-Term feels softer than TAC.

[Religious Shooter]

Went to the range to chrono last Friday. Got a new jug of X-Term and H4895. I had an old upper rebarreled with a 16" Nordic-Wilson barrel so I wanted to get data for this upper.

I also suffered a split case with my 75 grain RL 15 long range load during a match. It was hot and from what I remember I got the rounds from the trunk. So I wanted to do some temp testing to see what RL15 is doing. I decided to do the temp testing also with the 55's as well.

In short X-Term still has the fastest book velocity of the ball powders I've tried. X-Term feels noticeably "softer" than TAC even though X-Term drives the bullet faster. In terms of temp sensitivity I think X-Term and Tac is about the same. They are both marginally (maybe) better than A2230 when it comes to temp sensitivity.

RL15 sucks when it comes to temp sensitivity. One of the guys I shoot with told me this but at the time I was like "whatever dude." From what I can tell RL15 is the same as ball powder when it comes to temp sensitivity. H4895 is relatively temp insensitive and has crazy fast velocity. If you are looking for a powder for your "heavy" bullet loads in .223... check out H4895.

I couldn't totally control the temp. So take this data with a grain of salt. For the Ice Box data I took one round from the box, loaded it into the magazine and shot, then I repeated. Taking out five rounds and loading them and shooting all five gave higher results --- the rounds got nearer to room temp quick.

And as always YMMV, work up your load, etc.

Room Temp: 90-95 degrees F

Ice Box Temp: 57.4-68 degrres F

Sun: Room Temp + Sun (Rounds were left out in the sun for 10+ minutes)

55 FMJBT Montana Gold

A2230 25 grains (Book Max)(LC cases, Tula SR, 2.24")

VELOCITY/SOURCE/AVG

3089 3043 3073 3037 3028 ROOM 3054

3003 2999 2954 2996 3008 ICE 2992

3068 3083 3123 3079 3075 SUN 3086

Extreme Spread (AKA: High Vel-Low Vel): 169

ES W/O Extremes (take out low and high): 87

Note: If you take out that 3123 fps reading the ES for A2230 becomes comparable to TAC and X-Term.

X-Terminator 25.3 grains (Book Max)(LC cases, Tula SR, 2.24")

3045 3062 3071 3052 3062 ICE 3058

3109 3116 3108 3107 3103 SUN 3109

3127 3091 3087 3091 3092 SUN 3098

3118 3079 3079 3104 3107 ROOM 3097

3058 3024 3014 3045 3073 ICE 3043

Extreme Spread: 113

ES W/O Extremes: 94

TAC 26 grains (Book Max)(LC cases, Tula SR, 2.24")

3025 3006 3009 3023 3000 ROOM 3013

3049 3018 3000 3040 3040 ROOM 3029

2951 2938 2980 3019 2951 ICE 2968

3050 3029 3020 3046 3022 SUN 3033

Extreme Spread: 112

ES W/O Extremes: 98

75 HPBT Prvi Prtzn

RELODER 15 24.2 grains (OVERBOOK)(LC cases, CCI SR, 2.24")

2596 2612 2584 2659 2621 ROOM 2614

2516 2576 2561 2578 2566 ICE 2559

2609 2673 2649 2651 2630 SUN 2642

Extreme Spread: 157

ES W/O Extremes: 98

H4895 24.5 grains (Book Max)(LC cases, CCI SR, 2.24")

2714 2736 2715 2730 2753 ROOM 2730

2718 2769 2741 2734 2710 ICE 2734

2726 2733 2742 2725 2746 SUN 2734

Extreme Spread: 59

ES W/O Extremes: 39