Gold Team feed problem

[jmleenz]

Hey Guys -

I finally got out last weekend to compete in a local match with the new Tanfog and man what a day! After about 50 rounds of flawless operation the jams started happening. Almost all of the jams were caused by the round not being seated completely in the chamber; req. a smack on the back of the slide to get the round seated. The other jams would occassionally have the slide not fully eject the spent case causing the case to be caught in the slide. This started happening on every other round to the point I had to call it a day after the 2nd stage. Either way, pretty disappointing.

Why did this happen after 50 rounds or so and not right away? Maybe the feedramp became too dirty and the bullets were getting caught?? No idea...

Now, to be clear I do NOT reload. I am shooting factory speer lawman .40 ammo for now OAL 1.11. I only get out to the range once every other month so reloading doesnt seem feasible at this time. I took the gun home assuming it was the new Henning mags, so I replaced the grams spring/follower with the factory stuff and cycled through some rounds manually. Now I realize this isnt a real test of reliablity but the round would not feed correctly almost everytime. Just loading a full mag with the slide locked back then dropping the slide would not fully seat the round most times. What could be causing this? Any thoughts?

Here is my set-up:

Gold Team 2007 .40 V12

Henning 21rd mags w/grams spring/follower

Factory .40 speer ammo (OAL 1.11)

[vous]

Hey Guys -

I finally got out last weekend to compete in a local match with the new Tanfog and man what a day! After about 50 rounds of flawless operation the jams started happening. Almost all of the jams were caused by the round not being seated completely in the chamber; req. a smack on the back of the slide to get the round seated. The other jams would occassionally have the slide not fully eject the spent case causing the case to be caught in the slide. This started happening on every other round to the point I had to call it a day after the 2nd stage. Either way, pretty disappointing.

Why did this happen after 50 rounds or so and not right away? Maybe the feedramp became too dirty and the bullets were getting caught?? No idea...

Now, to be clear I do NOT reload. I am shooting factory speer lawman .40 ammo for now OAL 1.11. I only get out to the range once every other month so reloading doesnt seem feasible at this time. I took the gun home assuming it was the new Henning mags, so I replaced the grams spring/follower with the factory stuff and cycled through some rounds manually. Now I realize this isnt a real test of reliablity but the round would not feed correctly almost everytime. Just loading a full mag with the slide locked back then dropping the slide would not fully seat the round most times. What could be causing this? Any thoughts?

Here is my set-up:

Gold Team 2007 .40 V12

Henning 21rd mags w/grams spring/follower

Factory .40 speer ammo (OAL 1.11)

Have you tried barrel dropping your ammo to make sure it is not out of spec for your chamber. This will discount a bad batch of ammo for a start. If they do drop into the chamber freely then it is something else. Also check for any score marks on your brass to see if it is catching anywhere. Secondly the factory ammo may not be hot enough to cycle reliably with the V12 as there are so many ports.

Don't know if that is the answer but hope it helps!

[R.Elliott]

Have you looked at your extractor? I'll bet it's broken off at the claw.

[RUSHARP2]

try a long load(1.17 or so). Precision Delta's worked for me, until I started loading my own. You can order 250 for $75 and give those a try before tearing up your gun and replacing a bunch of stuff.

My .02

[LeoHallak]

try a long load(1.17 or so). Precision Delta's worked for me, until I started loading my own. You can order 250 for $75 and give those a try before tearing up your gun and replacing a bunch of stuff.

My .02

I am not sure how hot that speer is, but with a ported gun like that you may need a little more power in your ammo. I think N320 from what I have shot in a modified gun would be good. also like everyone said loading long for sure helps I have zero problems with my limited gun loaded to 1.175 and Hennings mags. I have never had problem with a stock extractor in 40 either.. Seems thats you are having ammo related problems.

Leo

[Jeff686]

Yea, I'll bet it is short stroking. What spring are you using? I'm running 38 super at 170pf and a 10 lb spring. If you've got a 14 or 16 lb spring, it may not be fully cycling the slide. I know that a heavier spring would seem to help close the slide, but if the slide is not traveling the full distance, maybe it's too slow to pick a round.

Henning, of course, is the man to ask.

[R.Elliott]

As stated above, short stroking is something to look at for sure, but note that when I first got my LC-II the extractor was hitting the barrel (very hard to see) so that every 50 rounds or so it would break off at the tip and start jamming...just as you have described. After about four extractors I finally twigged to the cause and dressed the barrel for clearance, at which point the problem went away. Major loads would cycle my guns no matter what spring was in it, but maybe that's because of my cement-like lock-up.

Good luck.

R

[Neomet]

Another source of ammo that is loaded fairly long is Atlanta Arms and Ammo. $11.15 for a box of 50 $233 for a thousand. I used to run them in my CZ that liked long loads. Be sure to get the roundnose. These Gold Teams do NOT like JHPs.

[LeoHallak]

Another source of ammo that is loaded fairly long is Atlanta Arms and Ammo. $11.15 for a box of 50 $233 for a thousand. I used to run them in my CZ that liked long loads. Be sure to get the roundnose. These Gold Teams do NOT like JHPs.

Neo, whats weird is my limited gun loves them.. Zero 180 JHP I have shot about 8k-10k of them without a problem. But in super it sure hates them, tried every length no luck.

Leo

[jam-man]

Check the depth of your chamber.

I own a Witness Match and it will not run with some bullet profiles. Exact same problem as you are describing! Inspect you bullets really close and see if you notice signs were the rifling is cutting into the bullets.

It is easy to miss this problem by just dropping rounds into the chamber, however if you pay very close attention you will see were the casing is not all the way in the chamber. This seems to be a common problem for EAA guns.

To make matters even more confusing the OAL of a round is even more misleading. I have 147 bullets loaded to 1.15 OAL that will run fine, and then I have some 124 that will not run a 1.07 OAL. It all depends on the bullet profile and how long the bullet is .355 in diameter. Some bullets have long tapers and they will run fine, others remain .355 in diameter and then taper off quickly, those will not chamber.

I hope this makes sense and may help.

BTW I am considering getting my chamber depth increased.

[Neomet]

Neo, whats weird is my limited gun loves them.. Zero 180 JHP I have shot about 8k-10k of them without a problem. But in super it sure hates them, tried every length no luck.

Leo

That is weird. I can't get 10 rounds of JHP though my super without it choking on me but RNs feed like silk.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Neomet

[LeoHallak]

Check the depth of your chamber.

I own a Witness Match and it will not run with some bullet profiles. Exact same problem as you are describing! Inspect you bullets really close and see if you notice signs were the rifling is cutting into the bullets.

It is easy to miss this problem by just dropping rounds into the chamber, however if you pay very close attention you will see were the casing is not all the way in the chamber. This seems to be a common problem for EAA guns.

To make matters even more confusing the OAL of a round is even more misleading. I have 147 bullets loaded to 1.15 OAL that will run fine, and then I have some 124 that will not run a 1.07 OAL. It all depends on the bullet profile and how long the bullet is .355 in diameter. Some bullets have long tapers and they will run fine, others remain .355 in diameter and then taper off quickly, those will not chamber.

I hope this makes sense and may help.

BTW I am considering getting my chamber depth increased.

My problems with HPs in super have all been feeding. never chamber. but thats always something to check for.

leo

[Jeff686]

Check the depth of your chamber.

I own a Witness Match and it will not run with some bullet profiles. Exact same problem as you are describing! Inspect you bullets really close and see if you notice signs were the rifling is cutting into the bullets.

It is easy to miss this problem by just dropping rounds into the chamber, however if you pay very close attention you will see were the casing is not all the way in the chamber. This seems to be a common problem for EAA guns.

To make matters even more confusing the OAL of a round is even more misleading. I have 147 bullets loaded to 1.15 OAL that will run fine, and then I have some 124 that will not run a 1.07 OAL. It all depends on the bullet profile and how long the bullet is .355 in diameter. Some bullets have long tapers and they will run fine, others remain .355 in diameter and then taper off quickly, those will not chamber.

I hope this makes sense and may help.

BTW I am considering getting my chamber depth increased.

My problems with HPs in super have all been feeding. never chamber. but thats always something to check for.

leo

Once I'm done with the 2k RN that I've been using, I'm switching back to 121 IFP. They reload well, feed well, and are accurate. Price is right too, almost the same price as some plated bullets.

[LeoHallak]

Once I'm done with the 2k RN that I've been using, I'm switching back to 121 IFP. They reload well, feed well, and are accurate. Price is right too, almost the same price as some plated bullets.

I never had the reliability i wanted with the 121ifps.. I am back to the zero 125gr FMJs and they never have a problem. I am glad you got those to run..

Leo

[scottli]

Check the depth of your chamber.

I own a Witness Match and it will not run with some bullet profiles. Exact same problem as you are describing! Inspect you bullets really close and see if you notice signs were the rifling is cutting into the bullets.

It is easy to miss this problem by just dropping rounds into the chamber, however if you pay very close attention you will see were the casing is not all the way in the chamber. This seems to be a common problem for EAA guns.

To make matters even more confusing the OAL of a round is even more misleading. I have 147 bullets loaded to 1.15 OAL that will run fine, and then I have some 124 that will not run a 1.07 OAL. It all depends on the bullet profile and how long the bullet is .355 in diameter. Some bullets have long tapers and they will run fine, others remain .355 in diameter and then taper off quickly, those will not chamber.

I hope this makes sense and may help.

BTW I am considering getting my chamber depth increased.

My problems with HPs in super have all been feeding. never chamber. but thats always something to check for.

leo

Once I'm done with the 2k RN that I've been using, I'm switching back to 121 IFP. They reload well, feed well, and are accurate. Price is right too, almost the same price as some plated bullets.

I picked up a 1000 of the 121 IFPs and can only load 14 or 15 or they nose dive hard. They feed great with a 1/2 loaded clip and are much more accurate then the 124 RN

What AOL are you loading at that allows you not to have feeding issues?

[LeoHallak]

leo

Once I'm done with the 2k RN that I've been using, I'm switching back to 121 IFP. They reload well, feed well, and are accurate. Price is right too, almost the same price as some plated bullets.

I picked up a 1000 of the 121 IFPs and can only load 14 or 15 or they nose dive hard. They feed great with a 1/2 loaded clip and are much more accurate then the 124 RN

What AOL are you loading at that allows you not to have feeding issues?

I have tried from long to short and nothing worked reliable. I still have some, and if he is using a length I didn't try I am game for it

leo

[SharonAnne9x23]

I had similar failures with my Para Ordnance 9x23 open pistol. I found that the last time I cleaned it, I inadvertently put in a 14# spring for my P14-45. Putting in the proper 10# spring cured the problem. (well DUH!!!)

Blessed Be

SharonAnne

[jmleenz]

thanks guys for all the advice...I have some investigation to do!

To answer a few questions;

1. Rounds will seat fine when dropping a single round in the chamber so I think that rules out an out-of-spec chamber.

2. I'm using the recoil springs that came in the gun from the factory (14lb??). It came with a few others that I may need to experiment with.

3. Extractor is intact and undamaged.

I think I need to try other recoil springs but mostly try some different ammo with a longer profile so start.

[BritinUSA]

Henning uses a 10lb in his Limited .40 and that makes major. So if using factory ammo with a comp gun, you will definitely need a 10lb or maybe even lower. Henning has most of them in his store... I think this will go a long way towards fixing the problem.

[jam-man]

thanks guys for all the advice...I have some investigation to do!

To answer a few questions;

1. Rounds will seat fine when dropping a single round in the chamber so I think that rules out an out-of-spec chamber.

2. I'm using the recoil springs that came in the gun from the factory (14lb??). It came with a few others that I may need to experiment with.

3. Extractor is intact and undamaged.

I think I need to try other recoil springs but mostly try some different ammo with a longer profile so start.

I also thought my chamber was in-spec by dropping a single round in the chamber, however after trying several different types of rounds I noticed that it was not. The odd thing is the slide would lack a 1/4 -1/2 inch closing, but when dropping in a single round it would lack a 1/32 to 1/16 to fitting completing in to the chamber. Sometimes it was even less than that and was very very difficult to see. The way that I could really tell is I could see that the rifling was leaving marks on the bullets when chambering the round. To really get the marks to show up, use a round that will not chamber and tap the slide closed with your hand, then extract the round and you should notice the marks on the bullets then. It will probably be hard to extract the round also.

I recently switched to Berry's Bullets 115 and they seem to run fine at 1.12 OAL, I was trying to duplicate WWB so if got in a bind I could always buy some factory ammo on the way to a match.

I am running an 8lb spring and have recently gone up a little in power factor the both seem to help the Witness run a little smoother. My power factor was 126,000, now I am around 132,500 and the gun seems to run a little better. Before the slide was very sluggish closing and now it seems to be more consist the whole cycle.

Another thing that I have noticed that is when the feed ramp gets really gunkie it would leed to bullets not feeding and would cause them to strike the top of the chamber. This was with bullets loaded to short OAL, if I would wipe the feed ramp with my finger after each stage this seemed to help a lot. I also changed over to Universal Handgun Powder recently and I believe it is running a cleaning than any of the other powders I have tried in the past.

As anyone tried Delta Percison Bullets in 115 grain in there Witness?

[jmleenz]

thanks guys for all the advice...I have some investigation to do!

To answer a few questions;

1. Rounds will seat fine when dropping a single round in the chamber so I think that rules out an out-of-spec chamber.

2. I'm using the recoil springs that came in the gun from the factory (14lb??). It came with a few others that I may need to experiment with.

3. Extractor is intact and undamaged.

I think I need to try other recoil springs but mostly try some different ammo with a longer profile so start.

I also thought my chamber was in-spec by dropping a single round in the chamber, however after trying several different types of rounds I noticed that it was not. The odd thing is the slide would lack a 1/4 -1/2 inch closing, but when dropping in a single round it would lack a 1/32 to 1/16 to fitting completing in to the chamber. Sometimes it was even less than that and was very very difficult to see. The way that I could really tell is I could see that the rifling was leaving marks on the bullets when chambering the round. To really get the marks to show up, use a round that will not chamber and tap the slide closed with your hand, then extract the round and you should notice the marks on the bullets then. It will probably be hard to extract the round also.

I recently switched to Berry's Bullets 115 and they seem to run fine at 1.12 OAL, I was trying to duplicate WWB so if got in a bind I could always buy some factory ammo on the way to a match.

I am running an 8lb spring and have recently gone up a little in power factor the both seem to help the Witness run a little smoother. My power factor was 126,000, now I am around 132,500 and the gun seems to run a little better. Before the slide was very sluggish closing and now it seems to be more consist the whole cycle.

Another thing that I have noticed that is when the feed ramp gets really gunkie it would leed to bullets not feeding and would cause them to strike the top of the chamber. This was with bullets loaded to short OAL, if I would wipe the feed ramp with my finger after each stage this seemed to help a lot. I also changed over to Universal Handgun Powder recently and I believe it is running a cleaning than any of the other powders I have tried in the past.

As anyone tried Delta Percison Bullets in 115 grain in there Witness?

Upon closer inspection I do ***think*** that it is a combination of short OAL and the dirty feed ramp issue. When the round gets caught on the chamber it seems the ridge where the bullet and the case come together is catching on the top of the barrels chamber. I assume with a longer bullet this ridge wouldnt be an issue.

The dirty feedramp would explain why for the first 50 rounds or so I have no issue (when starting with a freshly cleaned gun). Once a little gunk builds up it might slow the feeding and promote the jam. I'm gonna try some longer ammo from Prescision Delta or similar.

I have already swapped the recoil spring to the lightest version that comes with the gun. Hopefully this helps too. Anyone know what # that spring is? It says KG1 on the bag but that cant mean 1.0KG = 2.2lbs??