Want to Reload...

[DogmaDog]

Hey all,

I'd really like to start reloading in the next couple months, in order to save money on ammunition.  The whole business looks pretty daunting, though, and I mostly just want to be able to put bullets in my gun and shoot them without worrying about "grains" and "crimp" and "runout" or whatever.  

Anyway, I live in an apartment, and I'm not going to have lots of space I can devote to a messy work area any time soon.  I'm also not going to be able to bolt a workbench to the wall.  I'm wondering how small a footprint I can get away with for a reloading "rig" (preferably something I could push into the closet when not in use).  It can't make lots of noise, or stink up the whole apartment with weird chemical smells (rule #1:  DON'T piss off the wife!)  Are any of the dillon presses (550, 650) amenable to something like that?  

Also, are there any good, succinct online sources or books that explain the terms and processes associated with reloading?  I've browsed the threads here, and there's plenty of helpful info, but also lots of controversy over a lot of details I don't know the importance of.  Am I going to be able to get a press, set it up, and leave it, and then crank out .45 ammo that will do as well as the factory stuff I buy now, whenever I feel like it, without intensive study or explosive mishaps?

Thanks for your help,

DogmaDog

[Flexmoney]

To make reload for our game worth the effort, you will want a progressive press (a press that does more than one step per pull on the handle).

If you are just loading for pistol and space is important, the Dillion SDB (Square Deal is the answer.

You might want to bolt the press to a sturdy board (one that won't flex) and then clamp that onto an existing table when your wife isn't around.  

[spook]

DD, you could use one of those foldable work benches and put an SDB on that. I would go with an SDB and maybe an electronic scale (a lil'expensive, but no hassle).

"Am I going to be able to get a press, set it up, and leave it, and then crank out .45 ammo that will do as well as the factory stuff I buy now, whenever I feel like it, without intensive study or explosive mishaps?"

Yup. that's what you will have when you have found "your" load, and setup your press.

You will need a press (SDB), scale, caliper, flip tray, safety glasses(!!!) and you're good to go. Good luck. Björn

[kimel]

Hi Dogmadog,

Reloading is something that one does need to spend some time learning how to do, safely, just like shooting, driving a car, crossing the street, etc.

That being said, it is not all that horribly complicated unless you want to make it that way.  Some of us have to have chronographs and all manner of other dodads but these aren't really "must have" items.

Apartment living can complicate your reloading life but it is entirely possible.  I still managed to reload with my old single stage Lyman press that is older than I am when I lived in a 600 sq foot apartment in college.  I just built a small stand that I bolted the press to.  I was single so I didn't worry about putting it away.  

I believe it is Midway who has a nice "portable" reloading stand which you can mount everything on and put away in the corner/closet when you are not using it.   Not sure if the Dillon 550/650 presses will fit on it though.

The footprint of the Dillon 550 and 650 is pretty big.  Where I you I would go with either a good turret press (Lee, RCBS, others) or a Dillon Square Deal B.  They all have much smaller footprints.  The Dillon SDB also does autoindexing which is good for the novice.

Personally, I feel that people should learn to load on a single stage press.  This helps you develop a good understanding of the process before you move on to progressives.  This is only my opinion and I am sure others will post that you should just go with a Dillon.

Glad you are looking at 45 reloading.  High pressure cartridges such as the 38 super and 40 S&W are not for the novice.  A silly rookie mistake and you have problems.  The venerable 45 has a bit of latitude for error and there is only about 100 years of load experience behind that cartridge.

If you can, find someone locally that will teach you how to load.  It is much easier to learn with a good teacher than to read books or watch videos.  While I have not seen it there is a video on reloading for competition that is reported to be good.  The "star" is some guy you might recognize.

Other than the press and dies you must have a good scale, a reloading manual or three and a bullet puller (kinetic ones are cheap and effective) to take apart those mistakes safely.  Also, safety glasses are a MUST.

There are "compilation manuals" out there which basically take a single caliber's data out of the major manuals and compile them into one book.  These tend to be inexpensive and if you are only loading 1 caliber they are the way to go.

Most of the major manufacturers have published all or part of their load data on the web.  This data you can pretty much trust.  There are other web loading data resources which can be used but be very careful just taking some data off some web site and cranking out ammo.

BE has a nice section about the various Dillon presses in his Orders section.  Be sure to review this before you buy.

Smells and safety.  Reloading is pretty odorless with a few exceptions.  Some powders have an acrid odor to them.  You will probably only smell this while filling the powder measure.

Case tumblers aren't necessarily smelly but they are noisey.  Yes, you need one or at least have access to one.  However you don't have to attend these so you could easily run it in the garage or on the front porch or whatever.

During reloading there can be surprises which you need to be aware of.  It will happen, someday, that a primer will go off as you are seating it into a case.  This is just a fact of reloading life.  Once your heartrate returns to normal and you can get your fingers to release out of the ceiling just figure out what caused the detonation, fix it, and get on with life.  See now why safety glasses are necessary?  Oh yeah...prepare the wife for these potential noises.  Mine heard this happen the first time after we joined forces and had 911 dialed before I could stop her and tell her it was okay.

Realoading really can be a fun hobby and it can be very safe.  Just make sure that 100% of your attention is on reloading.  Don't watch TV and reload.  Don't play with the kids and reload.  When someone walks in to my reloading area I stop reloading to chat.  It is just too easy to miss that double-charge when you are disracted.

Hope that helps.

Cheers!

Kevin

[Flexmoney]

Reloading Manuals!!!

Grab some now.  They aren't just recipe books (though some treat them that way).

Lot's of good info in them.  

[DogmaDog]

Does the SDB have a substantial space advantage over the 550 or 650?  Cost isn't such a tremendous issue for me...just space/portability issue.  Those 2 presses have been recommended by the local club shooters, and the versatility seems like a plus.  I'll probably live in a house someday.  And I'll probably get back into rifle shooting someday, too.

A tutor is something I'll look for.  I've dropped some hints and questions at local matches...so far no one has invited me over to their loading shop.  

Thanks for the info!

DogmaDog

[Flexmoney]

The 550 and the 650 are bigger.  To take full advantange of the 650 you would want the case feeder...bigger still.

The SDB and the 650 are auto-indexing.  Auto indexing means the shell plate advances by itself when you pull the handle.  On the 550, you have to advance the shell plate manually.  With auto indexing you are much less likely to double-charge a case with powder.  

[kimel]

The SDB is only slightly larger than a good single-stage press.  The 550 is pretty good sized and the 650 is even bigger.

If money isn't an issue I would suggest you get an SDB now and when you get a house get a 650 as a house-warming gift for yourself.  You can still keep the SDB set up to crank out some pistol ammo, maybe of some caliber you don't shoot tons of.

Reloading presses are almost as much a collection thing as blasters.  I know a lot of people with multiple Dillons.  Many have a couple SDBs in various calibers set up and a 550 or 650 or both set up for high volume and/or rifle.

Don't think you can only have one press.  That is just a vicious rumor started by spouses that don't see the purpose in multiple presses.  

Flex is right...a good load manual has a ton of good info in it.  Speer makes my favorite for info...but that is a matter of personal choice as much as anything else.

Have fun!

Cheers!

Kevin

[jhgtyre]

I'll second (or third) the Dillon idea.  I have owned an SDB and it was a great press.  The only reason I got rid of it was to buy a 650 so I could make rifle ammo.

The single biggest help I had in getting started reloading was a buddy that came over and showed me how to do everything.  That help really flattened out the learning curve for me.

-ld

[DogmaDog]

Ack!

Decisions, decisions.  That "portable reloading bench" from midway looks like a pretty good deal for $46.  I bet I could slide that thing in the closet.  

Also...what's so important about these flip trays?  Don't the primers come all one way in a try when you buy them?  Couldn't you just invert them on a dinner plate?

Hrrmmm.

Press

bench

flip tray

manual

tumbler

scale

calipers

glasses

bullet puller

consumeables

Glad I have a couple months to figure this all out!

Thanks,

DD

[ErikW]

You want to think about what would happen by detonating 100 small explosives between two porcelain plates?

The flip trays have another use; you shake them to get all the primers sitting anvil side up. (Then flip them over to load them into tubes cup side up.) Some usually invert in the package between the factory and you, and between you and the flip/loading tray.

You might find all or most of that stuff in a starter's package.

Once you get set up and find a load you like, you can "set it and forget it" and just crank out rounds.

A Square Deal B is probably the way to go. If you later want to upgrade, it's going to resell at like 2/3 of its initial cost, and you've made that 33% up many times over in savings.

[kimel]

I think that Dillon used to have a "starter kit" that had everything you needed other than components (powder, primers, brass and bullets).  I don't have their recent catalog with me but check that out.

Primer shake trays are cheap and worth their weight in gold.

Cheers!

Kevin

[jhgtyre]

The first time you open a box of Federal primers you will be VERY happy you bought the primer flip tray.  Federal loads them in on edge so there is no neat and uniform way to get them out.  

The stand from Midway does look like the deal if space is an issue.

-ld

[Loves2Shoot]

Square deal work great, I would add lots of primer pickup tubes. They are cheap and you can load up several hundred rounds while watching TV. Then when you are reloading you don't have to pick up those dang primers.

[DogmaDog]

Uhhhh.  I thought the "watching TV" thing was a no-no when reloading...makes sense to me, and it's not like theres anything on TV more interesting than powder pouring into a casing.  

Anyway, I'm seeing a more advocates of the SDB press, even though other threads, as well as shooters at the local matches I've been to say to skip the SDB and just get a 550.  Also, Brian's article rates the SDB as having a steeper learning curve than the 550 (is this just a typo?).

Anyone concur that the 550 is easier to learn how to use than the SDB (and what does that mean exactly?).

Why on earth does the SDB use proprietary dies anyway?  What's cheaper about that?

Thanks for all your input so far!

DD

[jhgtyre]

The SDB is tiny.  You could not get standard dies into it.  

I have no idea if the learning curve is higher with a SDB because I started with one and have never used a 550.  Learning the SDB wasn't all that hard though.

-ld

[Loves2Shoot]

Dogma,

I meant loading the primer tubes, not rounds. Loading the tubes are my least favorite thing, thus I bought a auto primer tube filler. The square deal is self indexing, a 550 you have to turn the thing yourself. If you want to do 1 caliber 1 load the square deal is easy and simple I have loaded at least 100,000 rounds on it and it worked fine. I do have a 1050 now, but that is another story.

[Duane Thomas]

The advice to buy the SBD is good. I have two bolted to my kitchen table. (Hah! Try that, you married guys.) The owner's manual that came with the SBDs - and, I would assume, does still - is a marvel of understandability. The SDB comes already set up for the pistol caliber of your choice. The only things you have to adjust are the powder charge and bullet seating depth. The manual takes you, step by understandable step, not only through setting up the machine, but trains you to load your first rounds, as well.

The best reloading manual I've ever seen is the one from Laser-Cast. Here's the link to check it out:

http://www.laser-cast.com/book.html

(Edited by Duane Thomas at 6:25 pm on Dec. 30, 2002)

[IPSC CHIK1]

my loading BENCH is a 2'x4' folding table i bought at Office Max

SharonAnne L2387

[DogmaDog]

Thanks for your help, everyone!

I met a guy at a local match who has 4 different models of Dillon presses (SDB to 1050), and is willing to have me over and show me how they work.  If I can't learn enough that way to make a decision, then I'm probably hopeless.  

Anyway, thanks again,

DogmaDog

[Steve Anderson]

One more thing...get your loading manual first and buy the exact brand and type bullet for the load you want to start with. If you use a different bullet, the OAL (overall length) won't be right and your load will suffer.

Once you get some experience and a chrono, you can play with all the bullets you want.

(Or, use a buddy's tried and true recipe for the cheaper bullets)

SA

[shred]

The actual reloading steps are the same, from hand-press to single-stage to turret to Dillon to Camdex. Learn what those are before poking your fingers into a Dillon and it'll make much more sense.

Get your hands on a decent reloading manual (for pistol only, Lyman has a "Pistol and Revolver" manual that's pretty good), and/or a copy of "ABC's of Reloading" to learn the basics--

However, there will be a ton of info in those books that's pretty much irrelevant if you're loading 45 ACP for IPSC/IDPA/plinking use-- for the time being, you can ignore anything about case trimming, neck-sizing, lubing, chamfering, sorting by headstamp, powder trickling, cleaning primer pockets or casting your own bullets.

Loading a single, straight-walled pistol cartrige cuts out about 75% of the complexity involved with reloading.

On apartment-reloading: When I had a SDB (my first press), I bolted it to a 2-foot chunk of 2x12 and then clamped that to a table as needed. Easy to move and put away, but be careful with the primer chute. I used the SDB for 2 years of IPSC shooting before upgrading to a 650 (I sold the SDB to another shooter for a bit less than I paid for it-- this is a bonus with Dillon gear, easy resale).

My 650 is also mounted to a plank which attaches to a small workbench I built (you could still use a table, but it needs to be a sturdy one). With the casefeeder, it's considerably larger and more cumbersome to move and store.

Keep in mind storage for powder, primers, bullets and brass too. Those can easily get everywhere if not corralled.

(Edited by shred at 11:01 am on Dec. 30, 2002)

[Carlos]

600 sq. feet?!?! HA!  I have you all beat! I set up the 650 in my old efficiency! Yes, it dominated the room, and yes, visitors and family thought I'd gone over the edge in turning the one room I had into an ammo factory - actually, I don't miss that aspect of reloading . . .

Anyway, the new condo is 875 sq. feet inside the DC beltway and the Dillon 650 fits into an L-shaped closet w/o much room to spare.  However, you will find small apartment reloading easy, safe, relaxing, and you will REALLY enjoy all the extra shooting you can afford to do!

A few suggestions:

Environment: you will introduce some hazardous chemicals into your small environment of the apartment but the good news is they are easy to avoid or clean up. Wear a latex glove on the hand used to touch bullets - any bullets. I use West coats fully plated bullets and even those are coated w/ a very fine black soot. Any guesse as to what that might be?  Lead and graphite. It builds up on the glove and is noticeable fter a few dozen bullets.  Any remaining  lead from reloading comes mostly from the primers. You might smell a faint smell like firecrackers as your Dillon pops out old primers. There is a fine dust that is produced and it does contain lead and murcury salts. Not to worry, just make sure to empty th spent primer cup at the bottom of the trashbag and throw it out right away. Its a good idea to vacuum the area around the reloader often; see if you can find a vacuum filter called a HEPA filter - it will get the lead dust.  THe biggest thing you can do to protect from lead is to avoid eating it - how?? Wash hands and wrists after reloading w/ a high lye content soap and never, ever smoke or drink during a reloading session.

Reloading can easily be done; a friend reloads using a portable bench on wheels w/ a locking mechanism and just rolls the thig out of the closet when its time to reload.

As to mauals, try the powder manufacturer's websites first; data is likely free online.  You can also learn a lot from a $12.00 Lee manual though that guy has a few quirky ideas (like "never ever use federal primers" - sheesh! nothing wrong w/ Federal).

In addition, you might consider posting a WTB add ont he USPSA classifieds for maybe an AT-500 then buyng the new upgrade parts from Dillon.  Have fun and feel free to ask for advice here on BE.com, we are here to help!

(Edited by Carlos at 2:15 pm on Dec. 31, 2002)

[SiG Lady]

I'm glad I took a moment to dive into this thread...

Literally every shooter I know is appalled that I'm not reloading my own. Hmmm... well, just might be money, you know. (But I think that's no longer the problem it originally was. At least not in relation to reloading.) I think the REAL problem was/is 'apartment living' and space. Over 880 squares in here with 2bedr, but one bedroom I actually sleep in and the second one is the product-shots photo studio where I photograph small objects--(including guns 'n knives)... and boy, with the props, lights and equipment (and some furnishings) it really gets crowded in there fast. Not sure I want it all on the kitchen table, exactly (there isn't one, in any case), but the chief concern is management's views of storage of the materials on site. A reloader would sure be hard to hide! (Heck, I had to really work hard in the closet space here just to find a slot last year for the 5ft metal gun safe!)

Tons of insight and useful info in this thread, though!... some--if not lots--of which answered a few questions.  I guess I'll just HAVE to throw some stuff away to make room.

Hmmm... I could always throw out that sofa over there and put in a big table...

[Flexmoney]

Brian has a video out on reloading on the 650.

Might get it and take a look...see if it is for you.

http://www.brianenos.com/pages/videos.html