Getting swept by a loaded gun during a run

[-JQ-]

Yesterday at a local match a "new" shooter was in our squad who had a few issues. I'm fairly new to the pistol game and I know odd things can happen after the sound of the buzzer but Yikes!

The cof starts with hand on x's. After the buzzer step back and take 3 targets on the right, turn engage two on left. This shooter turns UP range sweeping the whole squad with the gun, we all ducked and yelled but it was too late. One of us would have been shot if the trigger was pulled. I'm not sure why she wasn't DQ's but when she got up after that we all got nervous...the only other stage was a no move classifier so little chance of sweeping the crowd.

Of course the shooter was sorry/embarrassed and appologized but...

We all had fun and made it home alive but this is a serious game...I guess it IS better to be lucky than good?!

Just thought I'd share.

[AlamoShooter]

That is not much fun...But it may be like an embarrassing Family thing and best not -Aired- out in a public forum?

I don't know nothing though.

[-JQ-]

That is not much fun...But it may be like an embarrassing Family thing and best not -Aired- out in a public forum?

I don't know nothing though.

True enough...that's why I didn't mention range, etc.

I didn't want to be an issue as I really like the range and all the RO's. Just venting...and reminding everyone that safety comes first.

I hope it isn't me at the next one...no perfection here.

hey, who told you about my embarrassing family??

[boo radley]

Yesterday at a local match a "new" shooter was in our squad who had a few issues. I'm fairly new to the pistol game and I know odd things can happen after the sound of the buzzer but Yikes!

The cof starts with hand on x's. After the buzzer step back and take 3 targets on the right, turn engage two on left. This shooter turns UP range sweeping the whole squad with the gun, we all ducked and yelled but it was too late. One of us would have been shot if the trigger was pulled. I'm not sure why she wasn't DQ's but when she got up after that we all got nervous...the only other stage was a no move classifier so little chance of sweeping the crowd.

Of course the shooter was sorry/embarrassed and appologized but...

We all had fun and made it home alive but this is a serious game...I guess it IS better to be lucky than good?!

Just thought I'd share.

That has happened to me as well -- shooter has targets on the right and left, and turns UPRANGE, sweeping everyone.

I cannot believe your shooter was not DQ'd. That makes no sense. Times are weird, though -- heard from a friend about a shooter blowing a hole through his holster at a recent major IDPA match. THAT wasn't a DQ either, apparently.

[tpcdvc]

Based on what you describe the shooter should have been stopped and DQ'd immediately. Safety is our first priority. I can't really understand why she was not. This is upsetting. I realize that a RO hates to DQ people and that is particularly true when it is a new shooter. But if it is done right it can actually make the shooter feel supported rather than making them feel like the odd man/woman out. We should never compromise safety rules. Never.

[XRe]

Based on what you describe the shooter should have been stopped and DQ'd immediately.

+ about 25 million.... WTF? New shooter or not, you get unsafe, you go home. That was WILDLY unsafe...

Safety is our first priority. I can't really understand why she was not. This is upsetting. I realize that a RO hates to DQ people and that is particularly true when it is a new shooter. But if it is done right it can actually make the shooter feel supported rather than making them feel like the odd man/woman out. We should never compromise safety rules. Never.

I agree, here, too.... This is an opportunity to help her learn and also help her know that we're a community and aren't going to ostracize her cause she screwed up (if she continues to screw up in that fashion, we might, but....)

I remember seeing footage from a match in Georgia where a guy didn't something interesting. The room was filled with shooters watching this tape... The guy shoots around one side of a barricade, and then instead of just switching sides, he turns around to get to the other side of the barricade, sweeping the entire uprange area as he does so. Most of the folks in the room knew it was coming - but everyone in the room ducked and/or yelled out something like "whoa!!!" In this case, though... the gent was asked kindly to head home for the rest of the day...

[el pres]

I can understand a new shooter geeting some slack for something like drawing before the make ready

signal or something like that but sweeping the crowd HOT ???? DQ DQ DQ, no exceptions !!!!!

How else are they going to understand how that is NOT acceptable !!!

[EZ Bagger]

No DQ? Hope I never have to rely on that RO/RM.

[FranDoc]

I have to ask if there was anyone mentoring this new person. Was there anyone walking through the stages with her, asking/guiding her through stage approach? Did anybody explicitly eplain the '180' concept and ho it applied to THIS stage?

When you step to the line and 'make ready' - esp for the first match(es) - a billion things go through your head (we all know this ...). 'Don't sweep the gallery' probably is NOT one of those things.

I've been swept by experienced (other discipline) shooters who get into an odd position in a USPSA stage then end up falling/spinning out of it. Nearly was swept by a junior in her very first match after our 'Intro to USPSA' class. That was a matter of sensory overload on her part -- didn't remember what she was supposed to do when she was done shooting. She turned around with a loaded .45 and started to point it at me (RO). It wasn't intentional, it was 'now what do I do' ... and ... BTW ... I'm not remembering that I have a loaded gun in my hand. Her brain wasn't processing 'ULSC'.

The challenge there is to

1. get the muzzle downrange/ensure shooter and gallery safety

2. do that in a way that doesn't embarass the shooter so much that they never return.

Unfortunately, we've never seen this girl again. I don't know if it's a matter of interest, opportunity ... what? I do know that her family doesn't shoot at our club, so maybe she was just there for the Intro class and moved on elsewhere.

We want to encourage new shooters. Prevention of mistakes via active mentoring and one-on-one supervision is preferable to punishment 'because somebody should have known better', then hoping that the transgressor 'understands' the situation. Safety can be paramount without being punative.

[Alan Meek]

There is no exception to a safety violation. The competitor should have been stopped as soon as that muzle went past the 90 degrees. The appropriate rule applied (DQ). If the officaiting is done respectfully you will never regret applying the rules. The competitor will learn from it. As an RO I have had to apply DQ's and take the time to talk with the competitor about what they did and offer advice at that time. I have never had a competitor not come back to compete another day.

Not stopping the shooter and issuing a DQ is mindboggling. I would have a talk with the RO, the MD and the SC. Also, it would be a long while before I shot at the club.

As far as not posting it on the forum. If we do not do something then how will perople learn, apparently giving out rule books is not the answer if they are going to ignored.

Alan

[ChrisStock]

There is no exception to a safety violation. The competitor should have been stopped as soon as that muzle went past the 90 degrees.

Wholeheartedly agreed....and furthermore...

If the officiating is done respectfully you will never regret applying the rules. The competitor will learn from it.

I think respect is the whole key here. Lord knows I was wild and needed all of the help I could get my first couple of matches. Had I been unsafe and subsequently DQ'ed in what might be seen as a disrespectful manner, I would never have returned ...completely due to shame....One less shooter to carry on the torch.

R.O.'s are due their bad days like the rest of us, but DQ time is not the time to belittle or have a supersized fit. I've had R.Os who have been complete tools, but I let it go, as I have my own moments. Welcome to the human experience, we all fark up eventually.

[dajarrel]

......How else are they going to understand how that is NOT acceptable !!!

You HAVE to DQ the shooter. Not only for the safety of everyone else but to enforce, in her mind, that is one rule we will not, cannot, compromise on.

dj

[kgunz11]

True enough...that's why I didn't mention range, etc.

I didn't want to be an issue as I really like the range and all the RO's. Just venting...and reminding everyone that safety comes first.

I would actually like for you to name the club, as I want to make sure I NEVER go there and I can warn my buddies about attending their matches. Unsafe shooters need to be sent home, male or female, young or old. I'm not so concerned with the bullet that has my name on it, when it's my time it's just my time, but what REALLY bothers me is the bullet that says "to whom it may be concerned".

The RO's for that match are totally irresponsible and should be held accountable. We as shooters trust our lives in their hands and in their ability to run a safe stage. When they do not DQ a potential threat the federation and all it's members should be made aware of the consequences of attending a match there.

[ima45dv8]

I think we all agree with the original premise of this rant -- none of us like being swept by loaded or unloaded guns. This also reinforces the idea of new-shooter briefings and mentoring for the first few matches.

As for naming the facility where this occured, we don't need that here, and it's against the Hate Forum guidelines as well.

CLOSED.