This one should create some interest!

[zhunter]

IF you were starting a NEW shooting sport, and could learn from any possible shortcoming in the ones we have now, specifically USPSA, IDPA, and Steel Challenge, what changes would you make to create the ultimate shooting sport/discipline?

[zh slides into his body armor]

[Merlin Orr]

Z......Z,,,, Z........

Jsut close this yourself and save the beatings.

[Catfish]

Scantily clad women and beer. :popcorn1:

And I guess, to be entirely fair, for the lady shooters in the sport, scantily clad men who don't have a belly protruding over their gun belt.

[Barlin]

ZH

It's all about the rules, how to enforce them and how to dodge them. Whatever you come up with, I would have one catagory without rules. Kind of like the "steroid olympics" , where man and technology shows what might be possible and it would be impossible to cheat. It would also be a great catogory for the guys with the little johnsons to finally recognize that side-stepping the rules only brings more rules and it don't help the little guy down there get any bigger.

[BritinUSA]

Leaving all other USPSA rules as they are but with the following division changes

• Remove 10 round limit in Production
  
• Allow any holster in Production
  
• Open guns must fit in the box with mag inserted (ie. What Modified is now)
  
• Set 160PF for Major across all divisions
  

[GentlemanJim]

There is no perfect or ultimate sport. no perfect answer...no perfect rule.

Play within the given rules...choose the sport you want to play...have fun doing it

Jim

[BritinUSA]

Scantily clad women and beer. :popcorn1:

And I guess, to be entirely fair, for the lady shooters in the sport, scantily clad men who don't have a belly protruding over their gun belt.

I can see the benefits of the scantily clad women, but the beer is mutually exclusive with the scantily clad men. It's beer that gives them the big belly. Guys in 'Daisy Duke' shorts and Under-Armor shirts don't drink that nasty stuff.

[Dan Sierpina]

Safety rules, and power factor. Otherwise run what you brung. Wait a second....we had that.

[ChuckS]

Here is a non-answer for you: I wouldn't start anything new until I have tried everything else! There are so many choices I will probably not complete the circuit!

Later,

Chuck

(A little more Co-ed would be nicer...)

Edited May 1, 2008 by ChuckS

[Alan Meek]

As long as the models on Deal or No Deal were pasting targets and shagging our brass.........

Oh wait that was something else

Alan

[GentlemanJim]

It has been pointed out to me

Maybe streching the rules .....a little ...but not actually breaking them

Jim

[J-Ho]

Add more guns, maybe a shotgun and a rifle. And then we could switch between guns during the course of fire. Oh and maybe give indiviual match directors LOTS of latitude with rules so we can have different matches that cater to different people and different types of shooters.

Also since we are just dreaming here how about having a game were iron sights shooters take the top prizes.

Oh what the hell. it'll never happen.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I wouldn't start a new sport. I would freeze the rules on the ones we have now and I would be the only one who would be allowed to interpret the rules.

[AikiDale]

I guess I one of the few folks who can take you seriously Z.

Like other racing sports, equipment needs to be regulated to insure an equitable playing field to test the operator so, as in auto racing, I would like to see several divisions. One would do to start a new venture with others in the works.

Spectator appeal is good. I'd like to see movement of the shooters and falling steel.

I would like to see levels of shooters. Novice, amateur, pro, etc.

I would like to see a golf like match which allowed the shooter to pick from his bag which gun to use on any given stage.

I would like to see a course which uses programmable hydraulic or compressed air steel to bring up surprise courses of fire with equal number of rounds for each competitor.

And for the big flame: I want this to be as widely acceptable as possible. I want no mention of practical, tactical or real world applications. No humanoid targets. I want everyone in the country to be able to accept this. I know it is underhanded and some politicians won't be fooled but that's not my problem.

[brboyer]

I'd like to see full size humaniod targets with blood pack and 'gray matter' inserts.

[Jim Norman]

One, We have to accept the fact that Paintball, where the competitors actually shoot AT each other is acceptable and that any sport using REAL guns to shoot at PAPER and STEEL is not and never will be acceptable to the annointed few.

Two, With Number One above in mind I would love to have the following:

360 pits where the shooter enters and is started by remote and ends with a stop plate or a competitor signal of some type.

Targets to be mobile, i.e. that is after the first shot the targets are not stationary. Also the No-Shoots also move. All targets are designed to stop a pistol round at the same rate that a real zombie would, so with that in mind shoot throughs would count. Hard cover would need to be HARD otherwise it would only be concealment.

Not eliminating a threat is a stage Zero. Hitting a No-Shoot has to be a biggie. I really don't care whether we count one hit or many although the real answer would be a damage assessment based penalty.

All scoring would be electronic, no pasting required and the stage would automatically return to position for the necxt shooter.

NO WALK-THROUGHS

You would be allowed any weapon (Yes I said Weapon, not firearm or gun) that you could carry. If you are in a Class Three State, feel free to bring your MP5 or a SAW gun.

Time to end would be important as would totoal number of shots and damage to threats. Misses, that is shots fired that failed to hit a target would count against you. You do have a finite amount of ammo that you can physically carry.

Airstrikes, MOABs Rockets and Grenades as well as artillary are not allowed, this is still a man against the masses contest. And collateral damage is a BAD THING.

Now that I got that out of my system, I would keep USPSA about as it is. At least for pistol only matches.

I might seriously think about a 100 points per stage method of scoring. use HHF to arrive at the overall stage winner, then apply percentages and mutiply by 100 to get stage points. All stages are equal.

If we could figure out an equitable way to do a time plus scoring system that didn't reward ditching a target on longer stages, I would think seriously about it. We would know exactly where we stood at every minute of the match.

GIven time I could ramble on more.

Jim

[AikiDale]

I'd like to see full size humaniod targets with blood pack and 'gray matter' inserts.

So would I.

But to get more guns in the hands of more people making it more sporting and less bloody seems like a good strategy to me.

[D.Hayden]

OK - I should have paid closer attention to Z's original post..

These are things I would change to current games... sorry..

I would like to see USPSA 3Gun.. be allowed to set a max time per stage... just tack on all the FTE's and misses after the clock rolls.

This should be able to be set on a stage by stage basis.

And allow Steel Challenge targets as allowable targets . We could have mixed field courses!

Edited May 1, 2008 by BerKim

[AikiDale]

One, We have to accept the fact that Paintball, where the competitors actually shoot AT each other is acceptable and that any sport using REAL guns to shoot at PAPER and STEEL is not and never will be acceptable to the annointed few.

Jim's point is well taken. But I want to do an end run around the annointed few. Paintball is seen as a game of tag. SASS shooters use real guns firing blanks in stadiums full of people and they love it. It is all in the presentation. I am not worried about the true believers on either side. I want market share!

My karma ran over my dogma,

Dale

[Punkin Chunker]

360 pits where the shooter enters and is started by remote and ends with a stop plate or a competitor signal of some type.

Targets to be mobile, i.e. that is after the first shot the targets are not stationary. Also the No-Shoots also move. All targets are designed to stop a pistol round at the same rate that a real zombie would, so with that in mind shoot throughs would count. Hard cover would need to be HARD otherwise it would only be concealment.

Not eliminating a threat is a stage Zero. Hitting a No-Shoot has to be a biggie. I really don't care whether we count one hit or many although the real answer would be a damage assessment based penalty.

All scoring would be electronic, no pasting required and the stage would automatically return to position for the necxt shooter.

NO WALK-THROUGHS

You would be allowed any weapon (Yes I said Weapon, not firearm or gun) that you could carry. If you are in a Class Three State, feel free to bring your MP5 or a SAW gun.

Time to end would be important as would totoal number of shots and damage to threats. Misses, that is shots fired that failed to hit a target would count against you. You do have a finite amount of ammo that you can physically carry.

Airstrikes, MOABs Rockets and Grenades as well as artillary are not allowed, this is still a man against the masses contest. And collateral damage is a BAD THING.

Now that I got that out of my system, I would keep USPSA about as it is. At least for pistol only matches.

I might seriously think about a 100 points per stage method of scoring. use HHF to arrive at the overall stage winner, then apply percentages and mutiply by 100 to get stage points. All stages are equal.

If we could figure out an equitable way to do a time plus scoring system that didn't reward ditching a target on longer stages, I would think seriously about it. We would know exactly where we stood at every minute of the match.

GIven time I could ramble on more.

Jim

Zombies, man. You had my vote at zombies.

[larry cazes]

I would love to see peace on earth.....Oh wait, wrong thread I like the sport the way it is today but with less whining. :popcorn1:

[JKSNIPER]

Scantily clad women?

Absolutely.

Any weapon you want to bring?

Why not as long as my old 106 Recoiless is allowed.

Models pasting targets?

Oh but of course mon ami!

Seriously I like the no walk through rule.

Let everyone shoot it cold.

Ideally have the course blocked from view until the competitor enters the "pit" area no one can see it ahead of time and "game" it out.

Have no limit on rounds in mag in Production division I agree.

However its not really fair to those that live in states where they are only allowed to purchase 10 round mags so to make it fair across the board I guess we'll have to leave that one alone for a while.

I also like the golf club selection idea. But realize that most guys cannot afford to have a selection of clubs. Besides the saying "Beware the man that only owns one gun" should apply.

Spectator enticement efforts would be nice like getting better TV coverage and we need hi speed cameras to show whats going on and the steel and shattering targets would help.

Get Jessica Simpson and Jessica Alba to go head to head with open class guns and lots of targets in the Arizona desert in summer.

Yeah baby now THATS a competition!

JK

[AikiDale]

I would love to see peace on earth.....Oh wait, wrong thread I like the sport the way it is today but with less whining. :popcorn1:

Unless I misread Z, which is entirely possible, he wasn't talking about changing anything, but starting from scratch with what we know.

:popcorn1:

[zhunter]

I would love to see peace on earth.....Oh wait, wrong thread I like the sport the way it is today but with less whining. :popcorn1:

Unless I misread Z, which is entirely possible, he wasn't talking about changing anything, but starting from scratch with what we know.

:popcorn1:

Correct

[DeweyH]

My "perfect" would be:

1. One division, gun and magazine fits in box. Iron sights only. Mag capacity is whatever fits.(I would be open to 10 round limits as well) Holster setup would be like Production or Singlestack.

2. Scoring is all minor.

3. Course descriptions will be: Start here, in this position. At signal engage targets however you like.(SAFELY). Hard cover would have to actually be hard cover. If there is a hole in the target it counts. If you can see a target you can shoot it.(As long as it is safe)

My goal is for it to be simple and to have everyone competing together.

Also Texas stars would be banned.