Hybrid SUVs

[D.Hayden]

Anyone drive one or looked into one of these seriously?

[wide45]

Check it out carefully.

I think Consumer Reports claimed that when you factor in the long term maintenance, they cost more to own and operate.

[D.Hayden]

I've heard that too...

The place I work.. gives us an incentive to buy them, that plus the Fed tax credit.. makes it look interesting.. if they're any good..

[Joe4d]

Speaking of the Escape Hybrid in particular and I would assume others, Hybrids are at their best in stop and go lots of traffic. Once you are up to speed the gas engine kicks in to not only power the car but the additional load of recharging batteries. So they are worse than a regular powered Escape on the highway. You also need to factor in the life of the several thousand dollar battery. Which will make the car worthless as a trade in once it's bad.

[AlamoShooter]

Speaking of the Escape Hybrid in particular and I would assume others, Hybrids are at their best in stop and go lots of traffic. Once you are up to speed the gas engine kicks in to not only power the car but the additional load of recharging batteries. So they are worse than a regular powered Escape on the highway. You also need to factor in the life of the several thousand dollar battery. Which will make the car worthless as a trade in once it's bad.

And Factor in what manufacturing that Batter does to the environment when it is made and finally discarded

Edited April 29, 2008 by AlamoShooter

[HighVelocity]

My neighbor has an Escape and it's been to the shop for repairs a LOT. I've seen a tow truck pick it up 3 times in the last 6 months.

I'm going to wait for the technology to get better before seriously considering a hybrid anything.

[BritinUSA]

If VW sales of their new diesel cars really picks up then you can expect the car manufacturers to start offering diesel engines. Jeep has one coming out soon for the Liberty, the rest may follow. Diesel is better than hybrid, gas mileage is comparable but the engine lasts longer and no battery to worry about.

[AlamoShooter]

If VW sales of their new diesel cars really picks up then you can expect the car manufacturers to start offering diesel engines. Jeep has one coming out soon for the Liberty, the rest may follow. Diesel is better than hybrid, gas mileage is comparable but the engine lasts longer and no battery to worry about.

Edited April 29, 2008 by AlamoShooter

[RePete]

I can't speak for the US, but in my neck of the woods diesel is 10 cents a litre more than gas, that's about 40 cents a gallon more.

Add to that the extra for the diesel option and the added maintenance costs associated with it, then a gas engine is cheaper.

Hybrids cost more than standard and as stated above there aren't any savings.

[larry cazes]

I just went through a month of research on all of the options available in hybrids and SUVs. My analysis as well as consumer reports says that for the kind of driving I do, hybrids don't pay for themselves over the life of the car. Do the research and do an honest analysis of your projected savings in gas over the next few years and see if they are really gonna save you a significant amount of money. As for gas SUVs, I looked at Mazda CX7/9, Honda CRV, Saturn, Nissan, and Lexus. We ended up buying a certified pre-owned AWD Lexus 330. REALLY nice car

It makes getting up at 630am to drive to matches much nicer.

[cking]

What Kills Hybrids is sitting in traffic with AC running. If you have to do that your mileage will be terrible. The only thing that really works now is the smallest lightest car with a small engine and don't push hard on the pedals. The biggest improvement is to drive less than 60 mph. Which I find very hard to do.

[sfinney]

I've been driving a Chevy Tahoe Hybrid for a few days now (company car).

It gets 21 in town, 22 on the highway. Doesn't sound like a big deal unless you do a lot of intown driving, then 21 from a FULL SIZE SUV is pretty darn good. (in comparison, a 4 cyl Toyota Camry is rated for 21 mpg in town as well). It will run all the accessories on battery power when stopped, inlcuding A/C. and only uses the gas motor for acceleration etc until you pass about 30 mph then it switches into dual mode and runs off battery and engine at highway speeds.

Then add in that you have cargo room, room for 7 passengers, and can tow a 6200 pound trailer.

If you don't need a full size SUV, GM also makes a Hybrid Saturn Vue and Aura, Chevy Malibu, and a Silverado. Coming in 2010 is the Chevy Volt - battery powered car, runs on electric up to 40 miles per charge, for commuting, using NO gas, and on longer trips an onboard gas generator kicks in and runs the electric powerplant, up to 70 or 80 miles per gallon.

<Infomercial over>

But, as stated in above posts, the issue in general with hybrids has been that the added cost of purchase up front usually negates any fuel savings over the long haul.... if it costs a few thousand more to buy, you have to prorate that over the length of ownership vs. fuel savings - usually the break even point at $3.00 gallon gas has been about 5 to 7 years.

Most hybrids now warranty the battery that long (the Tahoe's is 8 years).... but if it dies out of warranty, thats a few thousand more in costs to account for as well. Lets not even address ecological impact of battery manufacturing/disposal (although the newer type batteries are MUCH better in this regard).

But with fuel pushing towards $4 a gallon and higher, the equation starts making much more sense

[EricW]

My 2...

If you can wait, wait for the new generation of diesels. I couldn't wait, otherwise I would have bought the Honda diesel coming out and had a 40+mpg sedan with torque out the ying yang.

If you can't wait, seriously consider your needs and consider a Honda or Toyota sedan instead of a hybrid. If you're buying an SUV for snow performance, the only time an SUV is better is when the snow is deep enough to high center a lower car. The only SUVs that have substantially better ground clearance than a typical car are full-size pickup / suburbans.

My Accord *with Michelin X-ice* snow tires has as-good snow and ice performance as an AWD Subaru and gets 30 mpg instead of 22. I test drove a Camry Hybrid fairly extensively and the best MPG I could muster was 31 on the highway. Most of my driving is highway, so I simply could not justify the added cost, risk, and volume compromises of a hybrid versus what appeared to be no performance improvement for my needs. Also, the Honda and Toyota sedans really do have great carrying capacity. I have more room in the trunk of my Honda than in my Subaru wagon. I can even fit a set of 190cm skis in my Honda through the ski tunnel without any interference in the front seats.

[Flatland Shooter]

Just after Christmas I decided to buy a Tahoe. At that time I visited with the dealer about the Tahoe hybrid.

Per the salesman and the sales manager, their benefits were for my type of driving (95% highway, 5% in town) were nil. No savings should be expected. As they explained it, the only dealers that will have one on their lots are in larger cities where the average driver will put 60%+ city miles on the vehicle. For that driver, it may make some sense.

I went with the gasoline version. At 70 mph I get a consistent 19.8 mpg. If I slow it down, the mpg goes up fast. As a test, I drove from Dallas to Conroe (204 miles) at 55 mph. Set the cruise control and made one rest area stop for the benefit on the dogs. Gas mileage was just over 24 mpg. Nice information to know if I ever run low on gas, but way too slow to drive any distance where the speed limit is 70 mph.

Bill

[cking]

So on Tahoe are they using a electric AC pump? Anybody know any details about it.

[Jeff686]

How about all electric?

G-Wiz

[EricW]

How about all electric?

G-Wiz

ROTFLMAO!!!

This one's even better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKaU20eoFAc&NR=1

[BSeevers]

Geez I am going to cut down a couple trees tomorrow and throw my cans in the trash.

As usual. :popcorn1:

[JRBean]

So on Tahoe are they using a electric AC pump? Anybody know any details about it.

Most of your hybrids are now using high voltage electric power steering and a/c compressors. That way they still operate when the gas engine is shut down. I know Toyota uses this system and I read an article on the Tahoe saying they use the same system.

[Chris]

Go with this Dave..

http://www.teslamotors.com/

[D.Hayden]

Sure.. that's going to get us all down to SMM3G.. lol

[warpspeed]

I've looked at the hybrid for the wife ( 90 % city driving ) and decided it was not worth it.

She keeps a car for 8 - 10 years and puts very low miles. Her current 2001 has < 60 K miles.

My discussions with the dealer regarding batteries was not good. Overall cost of ownership was much higher. I think I'll stick with a conventional car for now.

[p99shooter]

I've owned a Camry Hybrid for almost two years now. I routinely get over 40 MPG city and highway. I made weekend trip from Sacramento to Monterey that totalled over 500 miles on 3/4 of a tank.

If you sit down and do the math, consider two things. Gas has nearly tripled in cost in the past five years. Past performace is never a certain predictor of the future, but ask yourself what the price of gas is going to be in another 5 years. Also, don't base your calculations on the extra retail cost of the hybrid; base it on the extra depreciation that you have as the result of a more expensive vehicle. Yeah, you pay an extra couple of grand, but the car is an asset. You don't lose the extra money per se, only the extra depreciation.

Worried about the cost of replacing the batteries? Get an extended warranty, which will cover it at a reasonable cost.

Like any car, the mileage you get out of a hybrid depends on how you drive it. People complain about the price of gas, yet they still floor the accellerator at every light at stop sign. Duh! Accelerate smoothly, stay at constant speeds, and (GASP!) drive near the speed limit, and you'll be amazed at what kind of mileage you can get out of any car, hybrid or not.

[Chris]

A thing I noticed lately..

I drive about 100 miles a day round trip to work (all highway). My car normally gets about 20mpg on the highway. I recently had the oil changed and had them put full synthetic oil in and guess what? I now get about 22-24mpg with just an oil change!

[Scooter]

I made weekend trip from Sacramento to Monterey that totalled over 500 miles on 3/4 of a tank.

But you could do that with the 4 cyl Camry. The 96 Camry I had, was still getting 32 mpg when I got rid of it at 247K miles on the engine. It usually used 2/3 of the tank to drive 400 miles from Sacramento to LA. I did it in 1/2 tank once when I had a nice tailwind and drafted off of every semi-truck that was speeding.

From the other thread I posted on:

Toyota Camry LE in 4 cyl vs. Camry hybrid

$21,225 vs. $25,350: Difference of $4,125

26 mpg avg 50% city/50% hwy vs. 33.5 mpg

3846 gals to 100K mi vs. 2985 gals

$15,384 to 100K mi @ $4/gal vs. $11,940: Difference of $3,444

So you would have $681 in your pocket for not buying the hybrid.

The only time hybrids become more favorable is if you do a lot of city miles. If you only drive <10,000 miles a year and change cars every couple of years, you will lose money on the hybrid.