"...B class is the easiest to get into and the hardest to

[DUKE]

I think you are dead on Duane! Well said

[Pezco]

'B' Limited Shooter here seriously working/practicing to move up to 'A' but more importantly to win matches/division consistently.

Many people just want to shoot and do okay, I'm guessing that is not the group reading this thread. As for me, why do someting unless you plan to win! Thanks guys for the reinforcement about the hard work on my way to winning more consistently.

[DyNo!]

'B' Limited Shooter here seriously working/practicing to move up to 'A' but more importantly to win matches/division consistently.

Many people just want to shoot and do okay, I'm guessing that is not the group reading this thread. As for me, why do someting unless you plan to win! Thanks guys for the reinforcement about the hard work on my way to winning more consistently.

Same but for production. I'll shoot anywhere from "B" to low "A" but I'm comfortable with where I am. I need to become a good "B" shooter before I get myself into "A" and get railroaded.

I'm almost at 70% now so I guess I'll make my New Year's resolution to make "A" by the middle of the year and hope for the best!

Edited November 13, 2009 by DyNo!

[calishootr]

It took me an astonishing 12 yrs to get out of B class, (as Duane put it, i have slow reflexes, and my draw stinks) i was the last in our little group to get into A class, along the was I learned a lot, it suddenly wasnt all about just burning rounds till your knee deep in brass, its making each trip to the range a productive one, QUALITY practice time, not quantitiy, stop looking at the other guy's in class and shoot your own game, this sport is interesting that it has many facets, thegame within the game so to speak, you start to really do an intrpective on the hows and why's and really 'learn' the sport

and like so many others, now for me it isnt really aboutthe competition anymore, for me, its passing on what ive learned to others who are coming up or coming into our sprot that wantto learn

[el pres]

I'm out !!!

About last August the classifiers all of a sudden all got really consistant. What I finaly figured out

was that I was not trying to get into A class this whole time, instead I was trying to go straight to GM but my

skills just were not able to keep up with my will ..

[matt2ace]

Moving from C (open) to B took recognition that I needed to commit to the goal and practice (dry and live). Lanny's book taught be a great deal about what it really means to COMMIT to a goal and maintain the drive to achieve that goal. Steve Anderson's books showed me one path to that goal. Help and feedback from a friend who is an open-GM helped me down that path.

Since making B in open early this year, I have come to realize just how tough the path is A class is. I believe that those who a driven to go above B class begin to see their weaknesses and realize (atleast for me) that some can be addressed with practice (dry/live), but most need instruction and feedback from mentors/teachers.

Personally, I can tell you exactly where I need to improve. It is evident from my range log. The problem is not time or drive to improve, it's a need for more feedback and instruction. I tried to get into a class 3 times this year without success. My goal for early 2010 is to get into a class....meanwhile, keep focused on my goal (A class) and practice.

[kgunz11]

I don't get the time to practice much, especially after the time change. Heck, I don't get off work most days until midnight or so. The demand for mag tuning and gunsmithing services keep me busy, but the real problem is the retail side of the store. For me, doing a trigger job takes concentration, and I cannot do that with the phone ringing or people walking in the store. Couple that with preparing shipments of products to go out the door, and my normal business hours are shot. After about 6:30PM every day the phone calls slow down and I can lock the doors and actually get some work done. It's hard to turn on the machines during the day also, so that work gets done in the evenings. One thing I can say about the mag tuning stuff, it has gotten my reloading skills solid. With every mag I tune, it gets inserted into a gun with full capacity to make sure they hold and reload what they are suppose to. So every mag that I work on gets slung into a gun 5 or 6 times. Do that over several hundred mags in a few months time and you are bound to get good reloading. I get very little dry fire time, and all of my live fire is done at local club matches.

I, like so many others here, did not want to get bumped into A Class until I was competitive in B. Now that I feel like I can go anywhere and shoot in B class and be competitive I am bumped into A. I'll have to focus a little more, turn back the speed a little and concentrate on the points until I'm comfortable, then start working the speed back into it. Getting moved up might be a good thing for my shooting, as it makes me realize I now have to be solid in my shooting, and I am moving my focus in that direction more so than ever before.

[Jesse Tischauser]

After B class is where consistency comes into play.

+1

I'm still barley in C Production (59.731%) . I have shot several A & B classifier strings but I can't keep it together for the entier calssifier or an entire match without making stupid mistakes.

[Dan Hefta]

I just made B in Production, it was kind of fun winning awards and being at the the top of C class. Now I guess that I will have to start actually practicing and maybe drop a few pounds.

[Duane Thomas]

I think you are dead on Duane! Well said

Thanks.

[Duane Thomas]

The following is a cut 'n' paste of a post I made years ago that may explain why so many people find it hard to get out of B class. This was in response to a post where another BE.comer commented that Ron Avery had said to him, "B class shooters are the black belts of USPSA."

I seem to recall - and if I'm wrong, I certainly apologize - but Ron may have gotten that from me, from a conversation we had at the first-ever Factory Gun Nationals. We were walking and talking down one of the trails back to the clubhouse, just gassing about various things, and somehow we got on the topic of shooting as a martial art - since Ron is both a shooter and a martial artist - which reminded me of a conversation I'd had some years before. So I told Ron something like this:

Years ago a couple of friends of mine, one multi-black belt and another a Master class USPSA/IDPA shooter, and myself, were having a conversation where we were trying to analogize USPSA classes to martial arts belt ranks. We came to the conclusion that B class is equivalent to a first degree black belt, for the following reasons:

(1) This is the first level at which you can honestly say you have a decent mastery of the involved discipline. I mean, you're not setting the world on fire or anything, but you basically know what you're doing.

(2) This is the level of proficiency the average, dedicated practicioner can reach if they just stay at it long enough. You show up for martial arts class a couple times a week, practice at home occasionally, you do that long enough, eventually you're going to be a black belt. You shoot matches several times a month, go to the range a few times a month, dry fire at home on a decent though not obsessive basis, eventually you're going to be a B class shooter. (In both cases this assumes a normal level of hand/eye coordination and no mental and emotional problems that get in the way.)

(3) Also in both cases, first degree black belt and B class, this is the level that most people will never go beyond. For a couple of reasons. In the first place, because this is the level at which they know they've achieved a decent skill level, most people at this point figure they're done: "I got my black belt," "I got my B card," and they're satisfied. For another, this is the level that, to drive beyond, requires a greater amount of time and dedication than most people are able or willing to put out.

And Ron said, again if memory serves me correctly, "Makes sense to me."

[Duane Thomas]

The following is a cut 'n' paste of a post I made years ago that may explain why so many people find it hard to get out of B class. This was in response to a post where another BE.comer commented that Ron Avery had said to him, "B class shooters are the black belts of USPSA."

I seem to recall - and if I'm wrong, I certainly apologize - but Ron may have gotten that from me, from a conversation we had at the first-ever Factory Gun Nationals. We were walking and talking down one of the trails back to the clubhouse, just gassing about various things, and somehow we got on the topic of shooting as a martial art - since Ron is both a shooter and a martial artist - which reminded me of a conversation I'd had some years before. So I told Ron something like this:

Years ago a couple of friends of mine, one multi-black belt and another a Master class USPSA/IDPA shooter, and myself, were having a conversation where we were trying to analogize USPSA classes to martial arts belt ranks. We came to the conclusion that B class is equivalent to a first degree black belt, for the following reasons:

(1) This is the first level at which you can honestly say you have a decent mastery of the involved discipline. I mean, you're not setting the world on fire or anything, but you basically know what you're doing.

(2) This is the level of proficiency the average, dedicated practicioner can reach if they just stay at it long enough. You show up for martial arts class a couple times a week, practice at home occasionally, you do that long enough, eventually you're going to be a black belt. You shoot matches several times a month, go to the range a few times a month, dry fire at home on a decent though not obsessive basis, eventually you're going to be a B class shooter. (In both cases this assumes a normal level of hand/eye coordination and no mental and emotional problems that get in the way.)

(3) Also in both cases, first degree black belt and B class, this is the level that most people will never go beyond. For a couple of reasons. In the first place, because this is the level at which they know they've achieved a decent skill level, most people at this point figure they're done: "I got my black belt," "I got my B card," and they're satisfied. For another, this is the level that, to drive beyond, requires a greater amount of time and dedication than most people are able or willing to put out.

And Ron said, again if memory serves me correctly, "Makes sense to me."

[lugnut]

Well... I cracked the 70 percent barrier for the first time this month.. and I am sure everyone is correct- to get into A is going to require a new plan. More dry fire, more disipline, different mindset, etc. I holeheartedly agree with the idea that B is the easiest to get into and hardest to get out of.... although I might suggest C or D are easier!

[M109R]

I just made it to A class but have been shooting several master scores. Finally it is all coming together and the practice is paying off. I am shooting quite a bit about 2k a month with 2 to 4 matches a month, dry firing some evenings. I shoot production and once in a while limited. My concentration was just good shooting skills, now I need to start working on moving skills. I really think many try to work on both at the same time is a mistake at least for me it just did not work.

[KGentry]

To get to GM, I think that you need to add significant physical abilities that not everyone can achieve.

... but even big, out of shape guys can move, so...

Stop talking about me Dave

---------------

I think that being whatever class you are if you are having a good time then you are doing well. Most shooters have responsibilities that take much of their time. I think most would agree that making M or GM you will need to sacrifice something some shooters cannot or are not willing to. ie time away from family, money etc........

Be happy where you are at and like some have said, practice the basics and take them off your mind to focus on more advanced skill sets.

Ok that is my 1 cent - I don't have 2 cents anymore

[eric nielsen]

There are several good thoughts on this thread, I really liked post #37.

Something to look at is do you have many flags for 15% over class [C class: shoot a score over 75, it doesn't count; B class: shoot a score over 90%, doesn't count]. Prior to A-class I used to write on my classifier score sheet, but now you pretty much have to find those scores online & then send an email, asking them to average those in.

Also see if you are shooting boo-boos that just barely count. Say, you're at 73% overall but you shoot an "oops" that scores 55.1% - guess what: that counts. If you are regularly having gun/ammo/mag malfunctions or blowing mag changes while TRYING on the classifiers, you might get a bunch of those basement scores.

I feel like the point of joining & competing is to move yourself higher on the overall score sheet, regardless of division and class. The point of the classification system is to move up & demonstrate competency to your peers. That seems to be the spirit of this thread, which I like.

Some obviously have other priorities, like making sure they're in the "right" class to collect some huge pot of gold at a match [these days, that might mean a hammer & sear set...] while others dream of moving all the way up, reasoning that if they have the same card as Jerry Barnhart, that they will be as sought after as a shooter/teacher as the now-nearly-mythical JB. I can't say that those thoughts and those threads are wrong, but will just repeat that I like this thread.

Not the best guy for advice but I could add that whatever technique you might be burning into your brain, step back once in a while and ask if you are accomplishing too much with the technique. Can you do less? Can you move less? Can you stop less? Can you think less?

[SkyScrapin]

To approach A class, you must also really work the classifier skills - draws, reloads, indexes, etc...

I think this is the MOST important thing said so far. These are things everyone must continue to work on.

Preston

[JasonC]

I would like to add what will NOT get you beyond B class...pulling the trigger faster. Look elsewhere.

Take a class from a qualified instructor. He will be happy to show you where you can improve.

[Duane Thomas]

I would like to add what will NOT get you beyond B class...pulling the trigger faster.

Not by itself, for sure. But it's definitely a part of the equation.

[wide45]

I would like to add what will NOT get you beyond B class...pulling the trigger faster.

Not by itself, for sure. But it's definitely a part of the equation.

A very small part, if at all.

I will forever remember a demonstration Mike Voigt did in a class.

We had a field simple field course set up, and ran all the students through it. We had D's through Master class taking the class.

Then Mike ran the stage. He was very careful to keep his trigger speed no faster than the slowest student had shot. We scored it, and he had a higher hit factor than the best Master.

[Duane Thomas]

Of course he did. He is a High Grand Master. And he'd have scored even better if he'd shot the course as fast as he could splits-wise, too.

No offense intended to anyone who might have a different opinion in this matter than I - and I mean that sincerely - but whenever I hear someone say "X is more important than Y" - whatever X and Y might be, "Movement skills are more important that having fast splits," "stage doping is more important than having a fast draw," whatever - I am always struck with two thoughts:

(1) Is what they're really saying, "I'm not very good at X"?

(2) They're missing the point. In order to excel, we need to be good at everything. We can't pick and choose to be good only at some things. Do that, and we doom ourselves to being beaten by the people who can do X and Y.

[lugnut]

Duane- I think the point is that the mostly likely improvements one can/should make to get from B to A are getting better shots and moving better. I think B shooters in "general" can shoot fast enough to get to be A shooters.... if they shot cleaner and moved better.

[Duane Thomas]

Ah, sorry. Forgot the topic was "how to get out of B class," and not "how to be the best possible shooter".

[lugnut]

Ah, sorry. Forgot the topic was "how to get out of B class," and not "how to be the best possible shooter".

Duane... of course most of us want to be the best shooter we can be! But can't you agree that at certain levels some kinds of training may yield more bang for the buck than others? None of us are saying to stop working on all aspects of shooting as well!

[Duane Thomas]

Sure.