HEAVY lead in 40

[buddy_fuentes]

David, you shouldn't have a problem with leading. I have shot a zillion of the precision molly bullets in 9/40/45. Never had a problem with leading or anything. I'll give you some lead bullets to try and see if you have trouble with them. My major forty load using lead doesn't lead my barrels. They do get real dirty, but they don't lead.

If you are shooting Tangi this Sunday I'll bring you some.

Buddy

[kmitchl]

Anybody done any load development for minor loads with 220 gr bullets? I'm making major at 3.2 Clays from a 5" Eagle and it's really soft. At 2.6gr Clays I average 152 PF.

[ChrisStock]

This exchange just makes me

Have any of you tried these?

X-Treme Plated

Yes, and they are categorically terrible, worst bullets I have EVER used.

Yes, and they are categorically terrible, worst bullets I have EVER used.

Yikes! Can you tell us how you really feel?

No, this is a family channel.

Order bullets from Mr. Steinar with confidence. He saved my bacon recently when another vendor hosed me pretty good. I am shooting 200's and 220's from him out of my SA 5", being pushed by Ramshot Zip, and love them.

[Harmon]

i need to get off my bum and order some from him...

Harmon

[Throwin Lead]

Anybody done any load development for minor loads with 220 gr bullets? I'm making major at 3.2 Clays from a 5" Eagle and it's really soft. At 2.6gr Clays I average 152 PF.

I played around with S&S 220 gn in minor and major. What worked well for me in minor was something in the 150 ish range too. Anything less and the gun was sluggish.

I worked up loads using Solo 1000 and WST. Both powders worked well and produced similar chrono results - I use the WST because I have a lot of it.

I think I was at 2.8 grains with each powder was in the neighborhood of 148 to 152 PF out of an M&P. Nice soft shooting round. Clean and no leading to speak of after a club match.

[bigsaxdog]

got a 1000 of the S&S 220's. just built a new 40 w/ a schuemann barrel. the throat's too tight for them! F*%#!........they look great, really want to try them, but they won't go in.(alright, don't anybody go any farther.........) montana golds work feed fine, but they measure .399 on my caliper, the 220's measure .401. talked to wil schuemann and mike calloway, that's just the way it is. don't really want to ream it, so........anybody have this problem?

[HSMITH]

I have a Schuemann barrel in my 6" gun and the 220's ran fine. I was loading with a U-die and a Redding CSD though. I hit the throat with a standard 40 throating reamer when I built it. I'd hit the throat with a reamer if it was mine.

[BOGA]

Heaviest I used was 210 gr. VVn320/210 combi is very soft but squadmates call me diesel bec of smoke. Freebored Trojan S/S and Edge for Ltd

[jrguar]

I have always liked AA#2 4.3grains behind a 200-205 grain lead hard cast. Shoots soft & clean, very consistant and makes major.

[bigsaxdog]

I have a Schuemann barrel in my 6" gun and the 220's ran fine. I was loading with a U-die and a Redding CSD though. I hit the throat with a standard 40 throating reamer when I built it. I'd hit the throat with a reamer if it was mine.

i haven't reamed the thing. it's an AET barrel. fit the hood, and it works w/minimum headspace, but any of the cast bullets sized .401 won't go in, gotta load short. MG's go in fine, but they're .399, so....talked to mike calloway, and he wasn't too jiggy about reaming it, but shuemann wasn't negative about it in the installation instructions, so i dunno.....jim stinar just told me he got a .399 size die, so he's supposed to send me a few to try, really wanna try these, i bet it might work. nothing wrong w/less powder......if i'm gonna start building these, i guess i should ante up and buy a reamer. what kind do you have? dimensions? thanks.......

[HSMITH]

Ahhh, knowing that it is an AET changes things some. The AET and lead can be problematic, but you are going to have to try it and see what happens. Will Schuemann has told me he shoots lead out of an AET without issue but I have seen results both good and bad with the AET and other than quality jacketed bullets. The only thing I have seen that I would claim to be true is that the bullets need to be hard, the harder the better, and a good soft lube works best. The rest hasn't been consistent enough to really draw any conclusions from, other peoples loads, etc.

The reamer I used is a standard 40 cal throating reamer from Brownells, it is a special order item but the nice lady at the special order desk will take care of you when you call.

That said, the AET has a pretty generous throat length in it already, I wouldn't go much if any deeper, and there is a pretty good chance that the reamer won't take much if any out of the diameter. My reamer hasn't taken any out yet on an AET, I run it in and give it a turn just to check.

I would expect massive amounts of leading with .399" bullets but it is worth a try.

I would think your best bet is to make sure the concentricity of your loaded ammo is as good as it can be. The Redding CSD is the ticket, but it is a PITA to clean the lead bullet gunk out of.

[rr4406pak]

This statement really concerns me!:

Xtreme TMJs usually worked well, but if fast powders & certain guns were used, there were occasional tumbling problems (titegroup & glocks made the problem appear.

That's all I use are these Xtremes with Titegroup in my Glock 35!

I've never had a problem and they're very accurate.

I see no signs of poor quality, but the above statement still has me concerned...

[bigsaxdog]

actually, i get better accuracy out of the lead 180TC's than the 180MG's. i've recovered a few MG's from my home chronograph testing laboratory(don't ask.....), and with that .399 diameter, they don't even engage the groove very well, still some shiny jacket left. the lead .401's have total contact. i haven't really checked into the reamer thing, dimensions, etc. that AET barrel has got some freeboring before the rifling, and that's what i need to open up just a little so the bullet nose will slide in. MG's will go in fine, but cast .401's won't so i gotta load short. you can force maybe .050 in, but even then when you eject a live one, it's sticky, so.....i need to call that dave manson guy, had him cut me a .45 revolver reamer to take out the ledge in 625's. he's pretty good, and the price for custom stuff is about $80, so.....just wanna open up that freebore a couple of thousanths, but i hate to mess with it. mike calloway wasn't into lead at all, had a long conversation about the health issues, so we didn't get too far on this, but i ain't done. i do wonder about leading w/.399/blowby. with the .401's, it's not an issue at all, the barrel is very clean, not really any difference from jacketed. i think the short course of this conversation is that bullet diameter means alot. i'm thinking that montana gold intentionally sizes their stuff to .399 to keep pressures down for problematic .40 s&w reloading, and it works even better when loaded long. but i'm getting close, and i gotta tell ya', when you get the load right, with that sight tracker gizmo, you don't see nothin' but brown and front sight. i'm starting to be a believer......

[bomadera]

Ditto's on this load. Tryed it last weekend and all I can say is, I will be shooting this load from now on. It is very soft, but that does not mean slow. My splits were quicker than ever before, and the accuracy was better also. My 5" Brazos loved it. Suffice it to say I'm sold!

This thread got me to thinking. I already shoot and love Jim Stinar's 175 gr SWC over WST. It has been a very accurate and soft shooting load.

So I popped for some of the 220gr and after three tries have settled on the most awesome load I've tried yet. HSMITH said they were really soft shooting. Hah! It's stupid soft. I don't think the front sight moves, just sorta twitches a bit. 3.5 gr of WST at 1.2 OAL had an average of 775fps with an average deviation of 3.4 after 10 rounds were chronographed.

If I didn't feel it myself, I woulda sworn it was impossible. My math has it at 170PF out of my 5" STI SS (Sentinel). This will now be my local match load. Thank you HSMITH for getting me to consider this bullet and of course, Jim Stinar for a quality product.

Paul

[Rocket35]

Funny that this thread resurfaced as I have just received my order of 220gr from Jim.

[scribble]

I agree with how soft these are. I tried a friends that he loaded up and they were 190 PF and they still shot softer then my 175 I was using from Jim. I made a batch of these myself using 3.0gr of clays and they were so soft the gun barely moves.

These are great bullets.

[Rocket35]

I have just finished testing out the 220gr S&S bullet. I didn't notice a dramatic recoil reduction. Although there was a bit of an advantage, it is at the expense of an average of 170fps slower velocity compared to a S&S 180gr bullet. This could be a draw back in regards to moving targets at longer ranges. We shoot at 20 yard swingers frequently out here.

[mr renwick]

Where do you get 220's at?

[HSMITH]

Ren, look back on the first page, S&S casting, Jim Stinar is the guy. He has an ad on the USPSA classifieds with contact information.

Jay, shoot those super slow 220 loads at some wicked fast 5 yard swingers and then shoot the same swingers again at 25 yards with honest shot calls, let us know what you found. The guys shooting 45 over the years know the answer already......

[scribble]

Jay shoot these in a match vs just shooting in practice. I shot these at the practice range and they felt snappy, shot them in a match and they were noticeably less recoil then my 175gr. I will be shooting these for most of the year once I run out of my 175gr.

[bomadera]

Ditto. Shooting at the range, I couldn't tell much, but the first match I shot I was sold. The front sight doesn't bounce as much as the 180's, and my splits were faster.

Jay shoot these in a match vs just shooting in practice. I shot these at the practice range and they felt snappy, shot them in a match and they were noticeably less recoil then my 175gr. I will be shooting these for most of the year once I run out of my 175gr.

[Rocket35]

OK- I have 1K of 220s and 180s. So I will start with the 180s and then go to the 220s to see if I feel the difference in a match setting. I have noticed an improvement shooting slow .45 vs a faster .40 load- better on moving targets for me. It seems with the slower bullets you need to shoot the moving target earlier than the "apex" of the movement. I am used to shooting later and the slower bullets are causing me some grief. YMMV

[HSMITH]

Do the math, if a swinger is WICKED fast its peak speed will be 10 feet per second, and that is a LOT faster than any swinger you are likely to see as well as being peak speed while we rarely shoot them at anything near peak speed. The difference in POI vs POA between a bullet going 750 fps and one going 1000 fps is 3/4" at 25 yards using the peak speed. No difference effectively. Even if the swinger was doing 20 fps and tearing the target right off the difference would only be an inch and a half. POA=POI.

[Fireant]

Howard, did you finally decide these were too smokey for you and stick with a jacketed bullet? I'm about to try one of the two. Either the 220 lead or a jacketed 200, but I can't deal with it being too smokey.

[HSMITH]

Roger, I did go away from them, partly smoke and partly not being willing to perform any maintenance on my dies and only minimal maintenance on my gun. I am not willing to take the time to clean my dies, and I really don't want to clean my gun more than every 3000 rounds or so. Time is the one thing I can't really get any more of. I really like the way they shot, if someone had a 220 CMJ/JHP I would be ALL OVER IT. For the guys willing to take the time to clean their dies and guns the 220 S&S bullet rocks.