223 Reloading Question

[ahescock]

I have reloaded 40 S&W for awhile without too much trouble (besides high primers). I just started reloading 223 and cannot get more than half of my reloads to feed consistently. The problem is that my bolt will not close all the way even if the charging handle is pulled all the way back. When this happens, the rounds are often difficult to extract. I have fired roughly 1000 factory rounds (WWB) without any problems.

I am using a Lee Turret Press with RCBS Full Base dies. The brass is mostly once fired milsurplus that I have recovered from my local range. I size to 1.75" using an RCBS trimmer with the multi tool that chamfers/deburrs. I do not sort the different head stamps, but I check the size on each case after trimming. Currently my OAL is 2.20", but I have tried 2.20"-2.24". I am using 23 grains of Hodgdon H335 with 55grain Hornady FMJ boat tails. I am not crimping, but have the Lee die if necessary. I use an RCBS hand priming tool with Winchester Small Rifle primers.

Should I be tumbling the lube off (I haven't bothered to at this point)?

Should I try crimping with my Lee die?

Should I try using just my own once-fired WWB cases?

What else could I try?

Thanks,

Adam

[warpspeed]

Q- Do you own a reloading manual ? If not, buy one today. I like the Sierra one. It has a great section on reloading for the rifle

Now , to your question:

Rifle brass is not resized to a OAL. It is resized to a measurement from base to shoulder of the taper. It is then trimmed if needed. It does not always need to be trimmed.

The way the resizing die is set is according to a case gauge. I like the LE Wilson one but I hear the Dillon one works just as well.

I bet if you case gauged your ammo, the rounds would not pass.

So, get a gauge, set the size die accordingly and you should be fine.

[John Dunn]

I would definitely clean the lube off of rifle cases, you want the case to grip the chamber wall on firing, lube will theoretically let the case slip back more increasing the pressure on the bolt face/lugs. For semi-auto non-precision stuff I screw the sizing die down until it touches the case holder. Do not use One Shot with a small base die.

[Intel6]

Big +1 to what warpspeed said. You are not sizing the case down enough and it is keeping the bolt from closing and locking up porperly and then it is sticking int he chamber when you try and get it out. It is not easy to use the AR15 to check for porper sizing since it has a recessed bolt head and the case head doesn't go flush with the chamber.

The best thing you can do (as warpspeed said) is to get a case guage. I use the Dillon version and it is essential to make sure your brass is sized properly before you load up a bunch of ammo. It also is nice to check the loaded rounds just to make sure everything is working properly.

Neal in AZ

Q- Do you own a reloading manual ? If not, buy one today. I like the Sierra one. It has a great section on reloading for the rifle

Now , to your question:

Rifle brass is not resized to a OAL. It is resized to a measurement from base to shoulder of the taper. It is then trimmed if needed. It does not always need to be trimmed.

The way the resizing die is set is according to a case gauge. I like the LE Wilson one but I hear the Dillon one works just as well.

I bet if you case gauged your ammo, the rounds would not pass.

So, get a gauge, set the size die accordingly and you should be fine.

[ahescock]

Big +1 to what warpspeed said. You are not sizing the case down enough and it is keeping the bolt from closing and locking up porperly and then it is sticking int he chamber when you try and get it out. It is not easy to use the AR15 to check for porper sizing since it has a recessed bolt head and the case head doesn't go flush with the chamber.

The best thing you can do (as warpspeed said) is to get a case guage. I use the Dillon version and it is essential to make sure your brass is sized properly before you load up a bunch of ammo. It also is nice to check the loaded rounds just to make sure everything is working properly.

Neal in AZ

Q- Do you own a reloading manual ? If not, buy one today. I like the Sierra one. It has a great section on reloading for the rifle

Now , to your question:

Rifle brass is not resized to a OAL. It is resized to a measurement from base to shoulder of the taper. It is then trimmed if needed. It does not always need to be trimmed.

The way the resizing die is set is according to a case gauge. I like the LE Wilson one but I hear the Dillon one works just as well.

I bet if you case gauged your ammo, the rounds would not pass.

So, get a gauge, set the size die accordingly and you should be fine.

I have the ABC's of Reloading, but its not really a reloading manual. I will pick one up tomorrow at a gun show.

In the meantime, I don't understand how to set my resizing die using a gauge. Any suggestions?

[Scout454]

You need a decent case gauge. I prefer Wilson. Adjust your sizing die; lube and size one case. Check the case in the gauge - the case head shoule lie between the low and the high marks on the case gauge. If it doesn't, screw the die in another eighth of a turn and try again. You will find that you have to over cam the die just a bit to get the proper shoulder setback that is needed to chamber properly. Once the case is sized properly, ceck the OAL and trim to 1.750.

[fastshooter03]

Stoney point(maybe HOrnady now) has an attachment that goes onto your calipers that will allow you to measure precisely what size the fired brass is that is coming out of your rifle. You should adjust your die down to size .001-.003" shorter than the brass fired in THAT chamber. Talking about base to shoulder(headspace) dimension.

Definitely clean lube off your brass.

Depending on the bullet, you can load to the max magazine length for an AR which can vary per magazine but is usually about 2.250". 55 Fmjbt w cannelure should be loaded to the cannelure.

I usually crimp my plinking stuff but not match ammo.

Nick

Edited April 12, 2008 by fastshooter03

[D.Hayden]

In the meantime, I don't understand how to set my resizing die using a gauge. Any suggestions?

Start at Page 10 in the PDF, labeled as Page 7

http://www.dillonprecision.com/docs/access...al_may_2007.pdf

[Derek45]

+1 on the case gauge.

I also suspect you're not resizing enough.

I like the DILLON because it's stainless and has not rusted.

[recon215]

Full length sizing I hope? Thats the bets way to make sure the cases are sized properly.

[ahescock]

I adjusted my RCBS small base die by raising my shellholder to the bottom of the die, then turning 1/2 turn clockwise. I think when I originally installed it I turned it 1/4 clockwise, but wanted to make sure it was low enough to size completely. After 3 cases, I got one stuck. I am using One Shot liberally, but the die was really working the brass. All three cases were really difficult to size towards the last 1/3 of the sizing.

As you can imagine, I am very frustrated. I am thinking about getting full length dies so I don't get anymore cases stuck (this has happened before with my small base die). Any thoughts?

[wide45]

If you have read the threads on loading .223, there have been several reported stuck cases when using One-Shot. It works fine for pistol cases, but looks like it's the wrong choice for rifle. Many use the Dillon lube when loading .223 with good results. I have had good luck with Lyman case lube spray on 7.62x39, have not loaded .223 yet.

Edited April 13, 2008 by wide45

[recon215]

If you have read the threads on loading .223, there have been several reported stuck cases when using One-Shot. It works fine for pistol cases, but looks like it's the wrong choice for rifle. Many use the Dillon lube when loading .223 with good results. I have had good luck with Lyman case lube spray on 7.62x39, have not loaded .223 yet.

Dillon lube is all I use on .223 cases for full length sizing.

[Derek45]

I use DILLON lube also, and I spray it on heavy to prevent stuck cases.

I set up my 650 with a only universal de-capping die in station one, and a resizer in station two.

I run a sh*tload through just to size them.

the decap die is for military or stubborn primers, I figure if I accidently get a berdan primed case, it's easier to deal with if it's not also trying to resize.

after I resize a whole lot, I trim with a Possum hollow in my drill press, chamfer on the drill press, then clean all the shavings and lube off.

I have another toolhead set up with the powder measure, and seating die.

Load up primers and powder, and it goes real fast.

[ahescock]

I have heard about the problems with One Shot, although they usually occur when the bottle is almost empty. My bottle is 99% full, but it could be part of the problem.

I think I will buy a bottle of Dillon lube, to go along with my newly purchased Dillon 550 that I got on Ebay!!! With a new set of dies and the 550, I hope to iron out all my rifle reloading problems. Of course, that is not why I bought the Dillon. My Lee Turret was WAY TOO SLOW. I only got up to about 150-175 rounds of 40 S&W an hour. I can't wait to get this baby up and running! I hope to give a report within the next couple of weeks. Thanks for all the help.

-Adam

[Ken Mays]

I was having problems using Lee dies.

The seating/crimping die was crushing the case at the shoulder. The case was swelled outward slightly at the bottom of the shoulder. This wasn't obvious to the eye but the cases would stick in the chamber. You need to find out which part of the case is getting stuck in the chamber. I'd have a bright ring around the top of the case right below the shoulder.

I switched to a Redding seating die and no more problems.

[fastshooter03]

In my experience I've found small base dies to be unneccessary for every rifle I've ever reloaded for. Many years ago when I started out reloading the "dude" at Gander Mountain told me I "HAD" to have small base dies for my AR. After having problems with sizing and talking to other shooters I went to regular dies without a problem.

IF you are reloading small amounts the case lube "imperial wax" works very well. Comes in a small altoids can thing and you put it on with your fingers.

Nick

[flameo]

i use dillon 223 dies and have no problum but i handel each case that i reload to check primer pockets and trim. i have found that some times auto producs and shootilg producs and help each other i have found that slick 50 one lube workes grate during the resizing prosess you can get it at your local auto store or k-mart (never got a stuck case)

[Chills1994]

^^^ Good tip!

I might just have to try that out!

Good first post!

Welcome to the forums, by the way!

Edited April 15, 2008 by Chills1994

[photog]

Here's my .02, as I used to have the same problem.

Did you ever shoot old Wolf that had lacquered steel cases? That lacquer will glue itself to the chamber wall. Then add some lube from your reloads and the chamber becomes a goo-ey mess. What I did was to chuck a .45 nylon bore brush in a drill and use brake cleaner to really clean the chamber, then use a little polishing compound to polish the chamber. Don't overdo the polishing, you don't want to remove material, just clean it really well.

This is assuming that you are trimming cases to the proper length, and that you are resizing properly, as previous posts are focused on.

[Rangerat]

Interesting that in this thread no one has mentioned headspace or jump. Important to know chamber headspace and fired brass headspace to set size. Important to know bullet jump to set OAL. Otherwise you are just guessing.

[John Dunn]

I don't worry about jump for 3 gun ammo, just crimp it on the cannelure!

[Rangerat]

I don't worry about jump for 3 gun ammo, just crimp it on the cannelure!

I had a discussion with Montana Gold regarding the cannelure on their .224 bullets. They said the cannelure is also there for visually checking bullet seating depth. So crimping on the cannelure is probably the next best thing other than setting OAL for bullet jump. For accuracy reasons many loaders do not crimp .223 Rem even for semi-auto rifles like ARs.

[Merlin Orr]

Interesting that in this thread no one has mentioned headspace or jump. Important to know chamber headspace and fired brass headspace to set size. Important to know bullet jump to set OAL. Otherwise you are just guessing.

If it fits in the mag and you can rack a unfired round out of the gun without leaving the bullet stuck in the rifling the OAL is fine. No need for worry with headspace. If it goes bang every time and shoots around 1 MOA you are good to go.

.02 about 3 gun ammo.

[John Dunn]

I've seen too many set-back bullets to not crimp AR rounds.