Jman Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Watch the second shooter on this video. This was filmed at the 2008 Hawaii USPSA State Champ. Saw more than one competitor with LONG shirt tales and the belt worn over it. Ummm, am I missing something? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdHS-401SwM Jim M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 rule quote.. 5.2.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. The belt or the inner belt or both must be either securely fixed at the waist, or secured with a minimum of three belt loops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff686 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 rule quote..5.2.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. The belt or the inner belt or both must be either securely fixed at the waist, or secured with a minimum of three belt loops. What does that mean? I wear suspenders when I shoot because I'm shaped like a pear. This seems to imply that I could attach my suspenders to my inner belt, and skip the belt loops in my pants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 rule quote..5.2.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. The belt or the inner belt or both must be either securely fixed at the waist, or secured with a minimum of three belt loops. What does that mean? I wear suspenders when I shoot because I'm shaped like a pear. This seems to imply that I could attach my suspenders to my inner belt, and skip the belt loops in my pants... You don't have to have it through loops, but you do have to have it at waist level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 A local guy is mad at me here for mentioning this rule to him. I only did it because we saw a guy the month before squat for a low port and his belt was in his armpits when he stood up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff686 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 A local guy is mad at me here for mentioning this rule to him. I only did it because we saw a guy the month before squat for a low port and his belt was in his armpits when he stood up. Yea, well, that belt ain't gonna make it over my roll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 A local guy is mad at me here for mentioning this rule to him. I only did it because we saw a guy the month before squat for a low port and his belt was in his armpits when he stood up. Yea, well, that belt ain't gonna make it over my roll... Nor mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 That is not a legal setup. Securly fixed (at waist) or 3 belt loops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 rule quote..5.2.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. The belt or the inner belt or both must be either securely fixed at the waist, or secured with a minimum of three belt loops. I Agree. Nothing on the rig I see is "secured" or "fixed" to anything. Seems to be a clear equipment rule violation. Jim M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 What types else besides belt loops qualifies as securely fastened? I can't think that it's at all comfortable to let the belt bounce around, not being secured through the loops.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 What types else besides belt loops qualifies as securely fastened? CR Speed inner and out belt, for example. Barnhart used to have velcro built right into the waist of his shooting pants, I recall him saying (on video, maybe). Some rigs use "keepers" to keep the belt in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Yup. Keepers. At a Lim Nationals I wore a web belt with a two/three keepers --- my 3 gun belt --- over a dress belt. One of the RO's (out of like 18 stages) questioned my belt's attachment (he couldn't see the keepers in front and the belt was floating around in the back). I showed him a keeper and he backed off. Nationals tested mang!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I can't think that it's at all comfortable to let the belt bounce around, not being secured through the loops.. I don't get why you would want to wear it that way either. I want my gear to stay put not slip slide around. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Yup. Keepers. What the heck are keepers? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I don't see where "securely fastened at waist" mandates keepers or built in velcro. It would appear tightly fastening my belt "around" my waist would also be secure, as long as it did not move around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I don't see where "securely fastened at waist" mandates keepers or built in velcro. It would appear tightly fastening my belt "around" my waist would also be secure, as long as it did not move around. I would agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Jeepers, creepers......where'd you get those keepers...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I brought this up after I told a guy I would score him "No Score" at a club match in Hawaii. The guy claimed that since it was Hawaii it didnt matter and he was only here for practice. I said great then you'll shoot for no score. He complained to the MD who made him go put a belt on. The at several other matches the same guy was at it again I pointed it out to a couple different MD's why they let the guy flaunt the rules. After an awkward low port where said shooters belt was like the above poster observed around his armpits when he stood up. So to answer your question due to lack of enforcement at least in Hawaii the rules have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 who gives a s%#t...just shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 The rule read "fixed" at the waist or 3 belt loops. It doens't say anything about our fat asses or guts hold it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Yup. Keepers. What the heck are keepers? lol There just small straps that you use to secure your outer belt to your inner belt. http://www.diamondbacktactical.com/BattleL...ers-P282C0.aspx http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2444.php The inner belt (first line) can be a regular belt that goes around the belt loops. The outer belt (second line) is usually a web belt. Web belts are quicker to put on, take off and adjust than the velcro lined standard inner and outer belt of the Safariland and CR belts. It's helpful for 3 gun matches where you need to put on and take off the belt between stages to configure for the stage. Not really needed for pistol matches as the holster and accessories don't really change for the duration of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 The rule read "fixed" at the waist or 3 belt loops. It doens't say anything about our fat asses or guts hold it on. kyle-this has been beat up over the years. i understand the rule, but i do not see the advantage-in fact, there would be very, very few cases where it would be an advantage. doesn't bother me a bit. i'd be worried about my own junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 It's a safety issue. The writer's of the rule didn't want gun belts and the associated pistol to inadvertently come off the shooter's waist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) Putting my RM hat on for a minute, I think the words "securely fastened" mean something more than just putting a belt on. To me that means a Velcro under-belt, belt loops, or the belt keeper method. Just putting a belt on, absent any of the previously mentioned methods of securing it, I would not approve. As to who gives a crap (my word), well I do and we all should. We play a sport governed by a set of rules. Those rules cut both ways. Sometimes they protect the shooter, and sometimes they penalize the shooter. Regardless, they are the rules of our sport. Gary Edited April 11, 2008 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 The rule read "fixed" at the waist or 3 belt loops. It doens't say anything about our fat asses or guts hold it on. kyle-this has been beat up over the years. i understand the rule, but i do not see the advantage-in fact, there would be very, very few cases where it would be an advantage. doesn't bother me a bit. i'd be worried about my own junk. We don't have to like or understand why a rule is there, we just have to apply the rules to all shooters equally. Very seldom have I seen RO's who do not question rules violations unless they do not know the rules themselves. The RO in the video said "shooter are you ready" which is not a legal range command so maybe the person acting as the RO was not certified and didn't know the rule about how the belt should be worn. The whole point is not what is an advange to the shooter but is there a rule against what they are trying to do. We would have less problems if every shooter would actually read the rule book more than once instead of jumping to sections to see if they can do something to gain an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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