TBF Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Anybody have a nomination for the cleanest burning powder in 45acp, I am going to be loading about 170 PF with 200 or 230 gr. , probably montana gold ( thanks to much praise on this site. ) I am leaving plain lead behind ( I hate cleaning, love shooting )I have tried alot of powders at max. loads on pins but most dont lend themselves to soft shooting 170 pf. loads with the emphasis on cleanliness. Any advice appreciated. Thanks... Travis F. (Edited by TBF at 2:04 pm on Jan. 18, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Titegroup and Universal Clays have both proven to be winners for me. Titegroup also happens to be one of the least expensive powders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 VV 320 works for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1badmagnum Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 for blended powders you cant beat hodgdon.titegroup and hs-6 for reduced loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnfst Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 I second vv-320 with a 230grn fmj zero bullet. Check them out at roze distribution. I think they are 69 a thousand shipped. I just purchased 200 to play with. I think I may be going back to a 185 for uspsa and save the 230's for pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 I recently cleaned my gun after almost 5,000 rounds with Titegroup. And I didn't NEED to clean it then - it was still slick and smooth. Allan Jones, ballistician and editor of the Speer Rifle & Pistol Reloading Manual, told me Titegroup is the cleanest burning powder Speer has ever tested. One caveat: I've had two knowledgeable people, one the owner of a commercial reloading company, the other Grand Master Bruce Gray, tell me that Titegroup in reduced loads is very dirty. This is not the powder for loading up your 125,001 power factor stuff for IDPA revolver competition. It's only when you pump it up to Major pf that you get the extreme clean burning characteristics that make Titegroup so impressive. BTW I wouldn't rule out lead bullets. After the aforementioned 5,000 rounds of .45 ACP, the VAST majority of which were Laser-Cast 200-gr. LSWCs, when I looked down the bore I had zero leading. None. All lead bullets are not created equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 Thanks for the info. It looks like I need to pick up a pound of tightgroup and get busy ( try vv320 when I find some, at a decent price ) Thanks again! Travis F. BTW Duane thanks for the lasercast info, might have to try those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 I've noticed guys at the local club who claim they have "the cleanest burning powder", but when they shoot lead bullets, there's a huge blast of smoke out of the gun. I was told this is caused by the bullet lube on lead bullets. Is this true? If so, does it really matter how clean the powder is, if you're gonna get a big cloud of smoke anyway? Is there a way to make lead bullets shoot more cleanly, regardless? Thanks, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Get Lasercast bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 Its true about the smoke, but the bullets I have recovered out of bowling pins still have ALOT of the original lube left in the grooves. Most of these are 45acp some 357 and even some 454 Casull loads. Looking at bullet bases Im wondering if its vaporized lead? Dont know for sure, but if it is, that would be another reason to go to an enclosed base/plated/jacketed bullet. Ive heard very few substantiated stories of lead poisoning, but who has their lead levels checked when theres not a prob? Sorry to drift like this...but........ Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 I use WST and find that it is clean and soft. Duane was investigating WST so he may care to comment on the Titegroup/WST comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Finished Universal. Now I'm playing with Clays. Haven't gotten to WST yet, though that's on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSC CHIK1 Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 i really doubt the smoke is vaporized lead. we would see much more smoke out of 38 supers if it was lead. many fmj bullits are NOT plated on the base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfm Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I'm with George D. WST is about as good as it gets in a .45ACP when it comes to cleanliness, performance, and economy. Also works well in the 9mm, .40 S&W, and competition shotgun loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Lisenby Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Along the lines of shooting lead bullets, one shooter I know said that when you get leading, you should increase the velocity until the leading stops. He told me this and I never tried it because I had always thought the opposite. I always used gas checks when I wanted to prevent it when my loads were hotter than usual. I'm still undecided about it 'cause I haven't shot lead recently. This shooter shot competition and should know what he is talking about. Anyone heard of this? Better yet has anyone tried it? He also said he preferred pure lead to antimony alloys. I'm still skeptical but he might have something which we should know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Sounds like hot air to me. Lead without antimony is way soft and will foul the barrel incredibly. Also, the faster you drive the bullet, the more leading. This guy had some WEIRD ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Lisenby Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I know, thats what I've been told. I loaded my first lead loads 60 years ago and have always assumed that pure lead will lead barrels. I don't even know where to get pure lead. Some of my customers load black powder loads and they also prefer pure lead for their round ball projectiles. I have looked at several of their bores after firing and lead is minimal. Of course they are purists and lubricate with lard only, but have switched to Hodgdon 777 or CleanShot powders and use shotgun primers. I saw a couple of deer hit with the round pure lead balls and the wounds were more than necessary to kill. Chronographed loads were near to 900 fps and balls were about twice the weight of the 45 ACP. I don't know if this correlates in any way to this subject but I think there is a connection, however reluctant I am to try experimenting. Maybe hard bullets aren't the answer, I know that gilding metal/jacket metal is harder than hard/chilled/alloyed lead and metal fouling is a problem in precision/competition rifle barrels sometimes and both my hard ball 45 1911's foul (copper wash) regularly. It just isn't the problem it is in my competition rifles. They let me know it by accuracy degradation when they foul. Leading in a muzzle loader and/or powder residue will make loading more difficult. Maybe hard lead has more of a purpose than preventing leading, i.e.,preventing base deformation wherein lies a cause of inaccuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 About the leading thing, this I know a little about, in general when you get lumps/blobs of lead right outside the chamber its because the lead alloy is too hard when compared to the pressure, bumping up the load will reduce leading near chamber. If leading is in rifling, usually toward the muzzle, your bullet speed is too high for the hardness of the alloy, back off the load. If you have both you are SOL and need to check bore condition or try another alloy. Softer alloys work well with light loads, light loads lead right in front of chamber with hard bullets. Hard alloys work best with warmer loads, warmer loads will lead rifling toward muzzle with soft bullets. Hope this clears up the confusion, not all leading is the same. I am going to try laser cast soon, laser cast is supposed to be 20% harder than any other lead bullet. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadHunter Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Quote: from Duane Thomas on 9:05 pm on Jan. 19, 2003 One caveat: I've had two knowledgeable people, one the owner of a commercial reloading company, the other Grand Master Bruce Gray, tell me that Titegroup in reduced loads is very dirty. This is not the powder for loading up your 125,001 power factor stuff for IDPA revolver competition. I used Titegroup for my .38 revolver IDPA loads last year and was amazed at how clean it burned. Easily the cleanest powder I have ever used for .38s. Maybe .45 puff loads don't work as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1badmagnum Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I have gotten into the habit of cleaning right after my shooting sessions,and reoiling afterwards also.I use more oil than most folks.even if I wait one day after shooting the residue is still fresh and removes easily with my version of gun scrubber(non chlorinated brake cleaner).I have used cast lead a few times and will never again try to save a few cents handloading.too much dust and residue,no matter what you use or how you use them.hard cast bullets suck in my opinion.I have been developing loads using surplus wc820 from jeff at gibrass,$80 for 8 pounds delivered. 50 ae-30 grains under a speer 325 grain jhp using cci 350 primers 440 corbon-29 grains under a 240 grain speer jhp using cci 350 primers 44 magnum-24 grains under a 240 grain jhp using cci 350 primers 45 acp-10 grains under a 230 grain speer jhp using cci 350 primers 9mm-7.5 grains under a 115 or 124 grain speer jhp using cci 550 primers I have no chrony data as yet,but I'm very satisfied with my accuracy and cleanliness of this powder in being able to use it in a variety of calibers.using magnum primers insures the charge is burned completely,and cleaning right after shooting guarantees a clean pistol next time you head to the range. happy blasting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 1bad, Did you try Laser Cast bullets in your testing? I've put almost 5,000 rounds through my .45 between cleanings, with no problems, and the gun's slide action was still slick and smooth. When I looked down the bore after all those rounds, there was ZERO leading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Quote: from HeadHunter on 4:03 pm on Feb. 5, 2003 Quote: from Duane Thomas on 9:05 pm on Jan. 19, 2003One caveat: I've had two knowledgeable people, one the owner of a commercial reloading company, the other Grand Master Bruce Gray, tell me that Titegroup in reduced loads is very dirty. This is not the powder for loading up your 125,001 power factor stuff for IDPA revolver competition. I used Titegroup for my .38 revolver IDPA loads last year and was amazed at how clean it burned. Easily the cleanest powder I have ever used for .38s. Maybe .45 puff loads don't work as well. I have used Titegroup in some very wimpy 38 special steel loads. TG has proven to be quite clean, on the contrary I have loaded up some Universal Clays real light and had unburned powder problems (most likely causes by powder postion in the case). See load notes below: Cartridge38 SpecialBullet Weight158Date04/18/02 Bullet ManufacturerKeadBullet MaterialCastPowderTitegroup Primer FederalBullet TypeLRNCharge Weight3.6 BrassVariousBullet Diameter0.358Charge Volume LengthOAL1.520Accuracy Velocity710Extreme Spread 40 fps PF112.18 Comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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