2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun

[LChico]

Alan, you are a troublemaker.

I'd be glad to accept your prize table offerings, if you don't lose them in the meantime.

For the record, I am ignoring any suggestions that involve extra work for me. I am perfectly capable of volunteering for enough extra work to fill all my spare time

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

Edited July 7, 2008 by LChico

[LChico]

I am sorry but I will not be able to reply quickly to your questions regarding registration or the waiting list for the Ft Benning 3 Gun Match. I will not be working on the Ft Benning 3 Gun Match for a few weeks.

On August 20th, my husband died after a 7 year battle with Leukemia. He was critically ill during the last month of his life & we had hospice staff at our home. I am currently surrounded by family & friends, and completely overwhelmed by paperwork related to his death. I have been on a medical leave of absense from my job & will not be returning to work until October. I have not been able to do anything regarding the match since early July.

The match has been full since May 7th & there is a waiting list with 95 names on it since early May. Anyone who registers after that will be further down on the waiting list & will be assigned a Registration Code based on the date & time they submitted the on-line registration information.

Once I start working on the match, I will respond to your email questions in the order I received them. Again, it will be late September before I am able to work on replies to email. Thank you for your patience.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

Edited August 28, 2008 by LChico

[buzzworm]

Hi Linda.

I am very sorry for your loss.

Take care, and may God bless.

BW

[kellyn]

We are obviously going to give Linda a break on this topic. We are all sorry for your loss.

[3gunr]

Just wondering where the big dogs were gonna play this year? I guess Taran Butler will be shooting Tac-Ops barring another equipment snafu. How about it kelley N. you got a new DSA for heavy metal? Will Kurt Miller be in that group or will he be testing his metal against Robby Johnson and Bruce Piatt in Tac-irons? Tate Moots did well in Heavy Metal last year, is he looking for a repeat or gonna punish those in another division?? Also on the match rules....if a Heavy Metal shooter has 1 A hit and 1 C hit is he in fact 1/2 second down on time or does the 2 hits on paper rule go in effect. The rules could be interpreted either way.Im on the fence myself Heavy Metal again this year.....or tac ops. If Heavy Metal is gonna be way small I'll just join the crowd in tac-ops so I can shoot in a bigger pool with more fish, including most of my match buddies.

3gunr

[LChico]

Just wondering where the big dogs were gonna play this year? I guess Taran Butler will be shooting Tac-Ops barring another equipment snafu. How about it kelley N. you got a new DSA for heavy metal? Will Kurt Miller be in that group or will he be testing his metal against Robby Johnson and Bruce Piatt in Tac-irons? Tate Moots did well in Heavy Metal last year, is he looking for a repeat or gonna punish those in another division?? Also on the match rules....if a Heavy Metal shooter has 1 A hit and 1 C hit is he in fact 1/2 second down on time or does the 2 hits on paper rule go in effect. The rules could be interpreted either way.Im on the fence myself Heavy Metal again this year.....or tac ops. If Heavy Metal is gonna be way small I'll just join the crowd in tac-ops so I can shoot in a bigger pool with more fish, including most of my match buddies.

3gunr

Robby Johnson will not be shooting the match. He is the Range Master. None of the AMU team members will be shooting the match.

If a Heavy Metal shooter has 1 A hit and 1 C hit, he is 0.5 seconds down on time. You say "The rules could be interpreted either way." Not the way they are written:

9.1.1.1 The best two hits on paper will be scored for all classes except Heavy Metal (or best 1 for slugs if designated as one required per target). There is no penalty for additional hits on paper (see exceptions for Heavy Metal).

and

9.1.1.3 Heavy Metal shooters may opt to neutralize a paper target with a single “A” or “B” zone hit. If additional rounds are on the target outside this zone, that option is forfeit and the best two rounds are scored, as for any other class.

The decision to only shoot one round on paper is an option for Heavy Metal. It requires the shooter to 'call the shot' and was added to the rules in recognition of the decreased ammunition capacity of this division. If the competitor sprays 2 rounds at the target, they negate the 'limited ammo' argument. Also, the first hit may have been a C, and the second hit was to avoid a "miss" penalty, because the C hit would not neutralize the target. It seems to me that 0.5 seconds for a C plus a A is better than 5.5 seconds for a miss and a C.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

Kelly, can we re-open the Ft Benning thread & add this thread to it? I appreciate everyone's concern & patience. I should be caught up on the Ft Benning match by the end of the weekend.

Edited October 3, 2008 by LChico

[kellyn]

Topic reopened

I will be shooting tactical optic, especially since Daniel will not be competing.

[LChico]

Topic reopened

Thank you Kelly!

I will be sending all registered competitors a round count, as soon as I get the final word from the AMU. I will also be sending updated waiting list numbers out.

I want to thank everyone for their concern and prayers for me over the last few months. Your care and support were appreciated.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

[SGDM]

Linda,

I am sorry to hear about your loss, my prayers are with you.

v/r

Greg

[Still Praying]

QUOTE(3gunr @ Oct 2 2008, 10:43 PM)

Just wondering where the big dogs were gonna play this year? I guess Taran Butler will be shooting Tac-Ops barring another equipment snafu. How about it kelley N. you got a new DSA for heavy metal? Will Kurt Miller be in that group or will he be testing his metal against Robby Johnson and Bruce Piatt in Tac-irons? Tate Moots did well in Heavy Metal last year, is he looking for a repeat or gonna punish those in another division?? Also on the match rules....if a Heavy Metal shooter has 1 A hit and 1 C hit is he in fact 1/2 second down on time or does the 2 hits on paper rule go in effect. The rules could be interpreted either way.Im on the fence myself Heavy Metal again this year.....or tac ops. If Heavy Metal is gonna be way small I'll just join the crowd in tac-ops so I can shoot in a bigger pool with more fish, including most of my match buddies.

3gunr

Robby Johnson will not be shooting the match. He is the Range Master. None of the AMU team members will be shooting the match.

If a Heavy Metal shooter has 1 A hit and 1 C hit, he is 0.5 seconds down on time. You say "The rules could be interpreted either way." Not the way they are written:

9.1.1.1 The best two hits on paper will be scored for all classes except Heavy Metal (or best 1 for slugs if designated as one required per target). There is no penalty for additional hits on paper (see exceptions for Heavy Metal).

and

9.1.1.3 Heavy Metal shooters may opt to neutralize a paper target with a single “A” or “B” zone hit. If additional rounds are on the target outside this zone, that option is forfeit and the best two rounds are scored, as for any other class.

The decision to only shoot one round on paper is an option for Heavy Metal. It requires the shooter to 'call the shot' and was added to the rules in recognition of the decreased ammunition capacity of this division. If the competitor sprays 2 rounds at the target, they negate the 'limited ammo' argument. Also, the first hit may have been a C, and the second hit was to avoid a "miss" penalty, because the C hit would not neutralize the target. It seems to me that 0.5 seconds for a C plus a A is better than 5.5 seconds for a miss and a C.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

It sounds to me like if your shooting H/M and you get a C or D hit for your first shot, you'll need to shoot 2 A's or B's or one each to clean it up.

Ronnie

Edited October 15, 2008 by Still Praying

[Jack T]

Maybe I am not reading the rules right, but could someone explain to me why there is a 10 SECOND penalty for each miss over 100 yards. Seems like it is backwards. Near misses need to be more heavily penalized.

Get a couple of misses over 100 yards and you are pretty much out of the match.

Is there going to be a range made available to verify POA/POI out to 300 yards or better? I don't remember the maximum range on the one that was made available last year at Benning.

Jack T.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Jack T

[Scout454]

Jack - I'm not speaking for the match administration but I worked and shot Blue Ridge where the Horner scoring method was used for the first time. A heavier penalty for longer shots prevented shooters from throwing a quick shot and moving on and just going for a fast time. I worked very well there.

As far as not knowing your zeros at longer range goes: zero your rifle at 200 yards, chrono your loads and use a ballistic program. In addition to 3 Gun I shoot F Class and sniper matches, all at 600 to over 1000 yards. My "home" range is 200 yards and I don't have access to a longer range so I have to rely on a very good zero at 200, mildots and a good ballistic program.

In addition, I sincerely doubt that you'll see paper at over 40 or 50 yards. It just takes entirely too long to score.

[Jack T]

Jack - I'm not speaking for the match administration but I worked and shot Blue Ridge where the Horner scoring method was used for the first time. A heavier penalty for longer shots prevented shooters from throwing a quick shot and moving on and just going for a fast time. I worked very well there.

As far as not knowing your zeros at longer range goes: zero your rifle at 200 yards, chrono your loads and use a ballistic program. In addition to 3 Gun I shoot F Class and sniper matches, all at 600 to over 1000 yards. My "home" range is 200 yards and I don't have access to a longer range so I have to rely on a very good zero at 200, mildots and a good ballistic program.

In addition, I sincerely doubt that you'll see paper at over 40 or 50 yards. It just takes entirely too long to score.

Thanks,

I am aware of all this. I am using new equipment and would really like to know where my point of impact is out to 300 yards plus. Also, the optimum zero for my dot is a 250 yard zero for ranges of 300 plus.

Jack

Edited October 15, 2008 by Jack T

[recon215]

Jack - I'm not speaking for the match administration but I worked and shot Blue Ridge where the Horner scoring method was used for the first time. A heavier penalty for longer shots prevented shooters from throwing a quick shot and moving on and just going for a fast time. I worked very well there.

As far as not knowing your zeros at longer range goes: zero your rifle at 200 yards, chrono your loads and use a ballistic program. In addition to 3 Gun I shoot F Class and sniper matches, all at 600 to over 1000 yards. My "home" range is 200 yards and I don't have access to a longer range so I have to rely on a very good zero at 200, mildots and a good ballistic program.

In addition, I sincerely doubt that you'll see paper at over 40 or 50 yards. It just takes entirely too long to score.

What ballistic program do you use?

Thanks

[Scout454]

Recon - Sierra Infinity.

Jack. If you talk to people like Kurt Miller, Trapr, Kelly, most of them zero at 200 yards. With 55 grain bullets at around 3000, you'll drop about 8.6 inches at 300 yards. Depending on your dot size, put it approximately on the top of a 10" plate and you're there.

[bigbrowndog]

actually I zero at 300 and I believe that KirkM guy does too. It allows lollipopping the plate out to 300 and then click up after that. Kelly I think zero's at 250. or at least he used to, Knowing him he probably zero's at 301 since KirkM does 300?

Trapr

Edited October 15, 2008 by bigbrowndog

[Scout454]

Trapr - with irons, yes. When we spoke about zeroing glass he said he zero'd initially at 50 and then confirmed it at 200. With most of the glass I've used and all that I have, the manufacturers recommendation is for either a zero at 100 or 200 yards. The ballistic charts I have show zero's out to 250 yards in 50 yard increments and they'll list a MPBR with drops.

[Jack T]

Recon - Sierra Infinity.

Jack. If you talk to people like Kurt Miller, Trapr, Kelly, most of them zero at 200 yards. With 55 grain bullets at around 3000, you'll drop about 8.6 inches at 300 yards. Depending on your dot size, put it approximately on the top of a 10" plate and you're there.

Scout454,

I use both Sierra and the Barnes Balastic 2.02. The Barnes is dead on.

I have always used a 225 yard zero because it gave me a decent Maximum Point Blank Range with the 2 MOA Dot for the loads I am using, but I got with Kirk and he said go with a 250 yard because I use a 2 MOA dot only. This is perhaps my insanity as there is no vertical/horizontal reference and I am probably canting the rifle.

Just now received my a new optic from Docter USA 1.5-6 X 42 Plex Reticle. Probably go back to a red dot on the float tube like I did years ago for the close stuff and run the Docter.

I am at Fort Polk now, so I better get out to the 600 yard range and start burning up some ammo!

Regards,

Jack T.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Jack T

[Jack T]

Linda,

Do you know which Sponsors/Slots have been approved yet?

[kellyn]

I typically zero at 200 meters and shoot most stages with that zero, HOWEVER I know my 300 zero and have shot stages with it. I shot more stages at RM3G with my 300 zero than my 200. Much of this depends on your sighting system and preferred load. Ft. Benning has traditionally had one long range stage so be prepared however they have lacked the facilities to have so many long range stages as RM3G. Whatever you do, practice it before the match and not during the stage!

[Charles Bond]

Is there going to be a range made available to verify POA/POI out to 300 yards or better? I don't remember the maximum range on the one that was made available last year at Benning.

Jack T.

Each year in the past there has been a range open and set up to use to verify POI. I believe last year we had a steel rifle target at 300 , 200, 100 yards and many of us worked together to spot for whoever was shooting. I am pretty confident that the sight in range will continue to be open but I would not bet my match on it.

Charles Bond

[LChico]

Linda,

Do you know which Sponsors/Slots have been approved yet?

I am waiting for Aaron Hampton to send me a list.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

[Jack T]

Finally sat down and read the back posts. Wow, possible paper out to 600 yards. Guess I need to stop my bitching and get to work. I just turned 55, do men start producing estrogen when we get older?

Seriously, my knowledge is non-existent on good optics for this type of match. I love run and gun, in your face, hoser matches. Oh well, now I am open for suggestions:

Open Division: What would be a good optic for this match? I will go back to the dot on the Float Tube for the close stuff.

Should this be a seperate thread or is this thread OK?

Regards,

Jack T.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Jack T

[LChico]

QUOTE(3gunr @ Oct 2 2008, 10:43 PM)

Just wondering where the big dogs were gonna play this year? I guess Taran Butler will be shooting Tac-Ops barring another equipment snafu. How about it kelley N. you got a new DSA for heavy metal? Will Kurt Miller be in that group or will he be testing his metal against Robby Johnson and Bruce Piatt in Tac-irons? Tate Moots did well in Heavy Metal last year, is he looking for a repeat or gonna punish those in another division?? Also on the match rules....if a Heavy Metal shooter has 1 A hit and 1 C hit is he in fact 1/2 second down on time or does the 2 hits on paper rule go in effect. The rules could be interpreted either way.Im on the fence myself Heavy Metal again this year.....or tac ops. If Heavy Metal is gonna be way small I'll just join the crowd in tac-ops so I can shoot in a bigger pool with more fish, including most of my match buddies.

3gunr

Robby Johnson will not be shooting the match. He is the Range Master. None of the AMU team members will be shooting the match.

If a Heavy Metal shooter has 1 A hit and 1 C hit, he is 0.5 seconds down on time. You say "The rules could be interpreted either way." Not the way they are written:

9.1.1.1 The best two hits on paper will be scored for all classes except Heavy Metal (or best 1 for slugs if designated as one required per target). There is no penalty for additional hits on paper (see exceptions for Heavy Metal).

and

9.1.1.3 Heavy Metal shooters may opt to neutralize a paper target with a single “A” or “B” zone hit. If additional rounds are on the target outside this zone, that option is forfeit and the best two rounds are scored, as for any other class.

The decision to only shoot one round on paper is an option for Heavy Metal. It requires the shooter to 'call the shot' and was added to the rules in recognition of the decreased ammunition capacity of this division. If the competitor sprays 2 rounds at the target, they negate the 'limited ammo' argument. Also, the first hit may have been a C, and the second hit was to avoid a "miss" penalty, because the C hit would not neutralize the target. It seems to me that 0.5 seconds for a C plus a A is better than 5.5 seconds for a miss and a C.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

It sounds to me like if your shooting H/M and you get a C or D hit for your first shot, you'll need to shoot 2 A's or B's or one each to clean it up.

Ronnie

If your goal is to post a perfect score, then you might want to shoot until all your targets are free of any penalties, in ANY division. Once the second round is on the target, Heavy Metal is scored like everyone else in the match.

Remember that both time and accuracy are more balanced in this scoring system. Unlike what may have been written elsewhere, it really isn't like a bullseye match. Realistically, just like in a USPSA match, if you have a C & an A hit on the target, you are 0.5 seconds down. In USPSA, you are 1 point down on the same target. I suspect you are not firing extra shots at USPSA targets to "clean up" your C hits.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

[OPENB]

Is there a link to read the rules for this years match? I could not find it in this thread.