Does IDPA Need A Grand Master Classification ?

[Glshooter]

I think there should be some changes made. I think the table shown earlier is way off. I'm a Master in SSP but only a B shooter in USPSA. I know plenty of other IDPA masters who are also B and even C class shooters. In my case as in others I was bumped to master from a major match. I can't come close to master times in the classifier. That said I am a much better match shooter than classifier shooter. But still, I have seen too many shooters get a class bump from one good day or in some cases a bad day by other shooters.

[Steve J]

I think there should be some changes made. I think the table shown earlier is way off. I'm a Master in SSP but only a B shooter in USPSA. I know plenty of other IDPA masters who are also B and even C class shooters. In my case as in others I was bumped to master from a major match. I can't come close to master times in the classifier. That said I am a much better match shooter than classifier shooter. But still, I have seen too many shooters get a class bump from one good day or in some cases a bad day by other shooters.

That's one of the downfalls of bumping people up based on match results. It all depends on who showed up to shoot that day. You either have worthy competition or you don't.

[austinkroe]

I voted yes but Bill Wilson will never call it Grand Master to keep away from being compared to USPSA.

I guess it could be a Professional class or something

What other names could be used to keep from calling it GM?

Operator or maybe Dominator

I am for a new class. I remember the first time I saw Burkett's IDPA video where he shot it in something like 64 seconds. I was blown away. Not only that but his sldelock didn't work and he was racking the slide on some of the reloads. I knew that I did not want to have to shoot against a master like that at a major match. Maybe a new class would solve that problem.

Then again, maybe if they would just adjust the required times so that master was much harder to attain there would not be this problem.

[MichiganShootist]

Adjusting the times would "help" but IMO... it wouldn't solve the problem.

The issue is that the range of shooters participating in IDPA has out grown having only 4 levels of classification... Because of it's rules based format...IDPA probably needs more classifications than USPSA... certainly not less.

That and the once in a life time mentality of classifications. (meaning even a novice might have a magical night of shooting and end up a Master for life).

Several shooters have commented that they were Masters at IDPA and ended up C or fighting for B in USPSA...certainly they are differnt games... but I'm guessing some of those shooters were over classifed in the IDPA because it's 90% stand and shoot.

NOT YOU Jake:)

Edited March 18, 2008 by MichiganShootist

[Steve J]

Slight Drift

As a match director who hands out certificates for 1st 2nd and 3rd place after each club match, I find the term Novice very objectionable. We all know that people slow down with age. I have veteran shooters, very safe shooters, who also help in match set up and administration and just because they entered the sport later in life after having slowed down and lost some visual acuity, I have to refer to them as NOVICE shooters. I find that offensive.

[MichiganShootist]

I agree...... hell I should.... I'm damn near a super senior.

There should be a better name!!

What's wrong with Veteran. In club matches You can call them whatever you want.

Edited March 18, 2008 by MichiganShootist

[MichiganShootist]

How About

Distinguished Master

Master

Expert

Sharpshooter

Marksman

Novice (shooters not reaching Marksman)

Veteran (shooters over 50 not reaching Marksman)

[Chills1994]

The term "Veteran" should only be reserved for those folks who served, honorably, on active duty with the US Armed Forces!

Pick something "senior-ish" instead please!

Michigan shootist also wrote:

The issue is that the range of shooters participating in IDPA has out grown having only 4 levels of classification... Because of it's rules based format...IDPA probably needs more classifications than USPSA... certainly not less.

Here, let me fix that for you:

The issue is that the range of shooters HIRED GUNSparticipating in IDPA has out grown having only 4 levels of classification... Because of it's rules based format...IDPA probably needs more classifications than USPSA... certainly not less.

How's that?

Edited March 18, 2008 by Chills1994

[MichiganShootist]

Will you allow Veteran Shooter??????

[Chills1994]

How about "Matured Shooter"?

LOL!

Keep this up, and we're gonna start sounding like Cowboy Action Shooting with all their classes/divisions.

Boggles the mind, yes, it does!

[L9X25]

Yes, it needs another class and it could be "High-Master" in keeping with the NRA classifications that already exist.

[Chills1994]

Now, you're cooking with gas!

PS: Be sure to take my new poll/thread!

[jmorris]

I think you guys are missing one of the unique facets of IDPA; it’s geared toward the new and average shooter not the master class and above. If you don’t believe me read page one of the rule book (2nd paragraph). Many that make master just move on to USPSA. I agree in the need for a Master “+” class.

Edited March 18, 2008 by jmorris

[jmorris]

Another way to look at it is, if everyone in IDPA shot sanctioned matches only 10 people in each class MM, SS and EX multiplied by the divisions (5) would not be masters as everyone else would get bumped sooner or later. With all but 150 of there members being masters they would be forced to add other divisions. The fact that this has not become a problem yet proves at least some rate of attrition by upper level shooters.

[Steve J]

Another way to look at it is, if everyone in IDPA shot sanctioned matches only 10 people in each class MM, SS and EX multiplied by the divisions (5) would not be masters as everyone else would get bumped sooner or later. With all but 150 of there members being masters they would be forced to add other divisions. The fact that this has not become a problem yet proves at least some rate of attrition by upper level shooters.

While it is true that IDPA Master class shooters in the North Texas area have moved in droves into USPSA, I'm not sure that is true in other areas of the country. When you look at the results for club matches at the Range and their Carolina Cup you see huge numbers of Expert and Master class shooters. Next Saturday at LA State, I'll be competing against only 4 other CDP Experts without a single CDP Master unless some enter at the last minute. True, it's Easter weekend and the usual Texas suspects are staying home...

[shooterready]

As my good friend, MichiganShootist, has pointed out I agree that there is a need to create a higher classification in all divisions.

I've been shooting IDPA for about 7 years now and have been a 3 gun MA and 2 gun EX (wheel gun) since 2005.

I have attended the last two IDPA Nationals and last two S&W matches. I'm really getting tired of competing with guys like Sevigny and Vogel. Tired in the sense of having to shoot against them. I love watching them shoot! I shoot mostly SSP. I've personally shot against Bob in quite a few matches in the past couple years. He's an awesome shooter which devotes much time to being where he is at. But, my current life style just does not allow me the time to come close to achieving results like Bob and Dave.

A new higher class is needed, not only to show respect for the guys that have paid their dues and have achieved such awesome skills, but also for the guys that are solid shooters spending hard earned money and vacation time to travel to major matches.

I'm quite demotivated to shoot many more major IDPA matches, therefore, hello USPSA. I just joined as a 3 year member.

Wilson and the gang need to address this situation.

My 2 cents.

Dick

[Loves2Shoot]

I would go for "Ultimate Tactical Elite Shooter" not GM.

If you add GM, then folks will want you to add Pro and so on and so on. I don't get the "add another category because I won't win unless you do" attitude. If you can't beat other people in your class, then just accept the fact that there are better shooters than you and just go shoot and have fun.

[HuskySig]

I would go for "Ultimate Tactical Elite Shooter" not GM.

Is that the same as Mall Ninja?

mattk

[Loves2Shoot]

Matt,

Mall Ninjas are "Secret Commando Elite Death Killers."

Ultimate (because it is the end all supreme classification in the system) Tactical (IDPA's favorite term for the slow way of doing things) Elite (best of the best again since Master is not enough and Master Master isn't as cool sounding) Shooters (because when it comes do to it, it is still about the shooting.)

Edited March 19, 2008 by Loves2Shoot

[mpolans]

Matt,

Mall Ninjas are "Secret Commando Elite Death Killers."

Ultimate (because it is the end all supreme classification in the system) Tactical (IDPA's favorite term for the slow way of doing things) Elite (best of the best again since Master is not enough and Master Master isn't as cool sounding) Shooters (because when it comes do to it, it is still about the shooting.)

After that reasoning, I'm liking "Ultimate Tactical Elite Shooter" for the new class if "Ninja" doesn't make it.

[HuskySig]

Mall Ninjas are "Secret Commando Elite Death Killers."

...in their own minds!

mattk

[Shawn Knight]

Again seeing some people that simply practiced the IDPA Classifier to get into a higher class seems silly to me. The skills are way above what they have now and people will stagnate in those classifications.

[Joe D]

There is no correlation between the Classifier and match shooting. There are plenty of "Paper Masters". I would much rather move up by good match shooting than Classifier scores.

[boo radley]

There is no correlation between the Classifier and match shooting. There are plenty of "Paper Masters". I would much rather move up by good match shooting than Classifier scores.

Of course.

So, what do you do? Tank the Classifier? The problem is, the specific strings in the Classifier, especially when you remove the cover garment, are skill-sets that are meat and potatoes to USPSA shooters. It's just test-taking, as, in USPSA, you're constantly taking similar tests -- every local match, in fact.

By contrast, from what I've seen, contrary to some opinions here, many IDPA shooters loathe the Classifier and do NOT practice it. I won't say "sandbag," but in the top 3 classes, sure doesn't seem to be much deliberate grandbagging, either!!

[Madcap Magician]

I voted yes to a higher class than master. When you have phenomenal individuals that shoot in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, there is a big gap from the 80-90 second masters. I too have come across some individuals that really don't like to shoot the classifier because they want to maintain the expert rating so they don't have to shoot against the pros. Example, the last Georgia state match.. When most of the masters are shooting one level, you have a USPSA GM come along and beat it by 20-30 seconds. I think in the long run this will kill the joy for some shooters. Me, it gives me incentive to practice more... But for the sport, it needs to be changed.