zhunter Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 I think the idea has potential - although at first I would say the entry fee should be around 200 or 250....which is just like nationals. Eventually with time it may be feasible to have high dollar entry fees and pay outs but I think the sport needs a lot more maturity before that happens....don't forget how many hundreds of years golf has been played for. Shooting is an infant in comparison in every way.I'd definitely like to see that match happen though. And the reason it becomes possible for me is that you don't have to win the match to get a decent pay out. If 10th place (or whatever) is still paying out enough money to cover your entry fee, it makes it reasonable for the lesser-tier GMs to go for it. And, FINALLY someone is beginning to see how it works!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo23 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Because I can't afford to pay a $500 entry fee for a match. Kinda like the lottery, can't win unless you play. Ben, I have been in your shoes, 3 times as a professional. Each of those three weeks, I was DONE if I did not play well enough to win some money. Luckily, I did. But when your times comes and you can't do it, you retire from the pro ranks. Plain and simple. Sure, as a guy starting out, scraping up $500 for an entry is damn tough. Do you have more pressure on you to perform, yes you do. Did most everyone who does it and is successful go thru that stage, YES. Hey, just like in every business, it is not easy, and success is not easily attained. I DONT WANT TO PLAY THE LOTTERY.... One of the only things that I can see about this being not a good idea IMO. Is along the lines of what Matt C said just a few posts above. If he won 500 a little while back how does that truly make him a pro?? I know what your definition said Z, but I would have to agree with Matt here. If I had a good day at a match and won 500 or more. I am not a pro.... I just had good day, and now I need to work 10 times harder to just go to a match and shoot. May fun just turned in to work and I did not even want it o Further more, if that day made me now have to fork out a ton of cash to compete in the sport that I love, I might just have to not do it any more. I guess MYpoint is that some of us might really be here for fun and fun alone. Of course every day I want to get as good as I can possibly be. But that doe not mean that I want to turn it into a job. No matter how good I am.... I think that others might share the same thought... Just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 No one is saying you have to do it or that every match would be ran like this. If you don't want to compete as a pro - either register as a amateur or just don't come to the match. There are different levels of competition for every sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 [One of the only things that I can see about this being not a good idea IMO. Is along the lines of what Matt C said just a few posts above. If he won 500 a little while back how does that truly make him a pro?? I know what your definition said Z, but I would have to agree with Matt here. If I had a good day at a match and won 500 or more. I am not a pro.... I just had good day, and now I need to work 10 times harder to just go to a match and shoot. May fun just turned in to work and I did not even want it o Further more, if that day made me now have to fork out a ton of cash to compete in the sport that I love, I might just have to not do it any more. I guess MYpoint is that some of us might really be here for fun and fun alone. Of course every day I want to get as good as I can possibly be. But that doe not mean that I want to turn it into a job. No matter how good I am.... I think that others might share the same thought... Just my .02 Turbo I totally agree, I have LONG said that as a shooter, who is doing it for fun, you/me/us as shooters, should NOT expect to be compensated from a prize table. YOU have just made my point from several long closed threads. This is not a prize table tread. You like Ben would not be affected by this proposal. Keep shooting for fun, I do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 And, WHEN the exposure goes up, so does the interest in the gun companies/suppliers to align themselves with the pros. More exposure equals more money in sponsorships for more people.High exposure, do you think as President of the USPSA, MV does not get more than a shooter of similar caliber? Of course he does, that is the nature of the business. Shooting related companies certainly understand exposure and how to get it. So untill then... the "pros" are just SOL? How are the "pros" SOL??? Put your money up, and win or have a high finish, and you will be rewarded. YOU like Smitty seem to be able to hold your own. What are you worried about? Because I can't afford to pay a $500 entry fee for a match. That is the VERY reason there should be a PRO ranking...for the guys that want to throw down some real $$ to find out how they really compare... Read some of the personal stories about golfers who wash dishes to earn the $$ to enter the next tourney, drive there, sleep in their car and eat peanut butter in order to get to play golf for big $$...if you REALLY want it, you do that...so do you want to be a GM or a Pro. Like they say in some places; Money talks and BS walks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo23 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 No one is saying you have to do it or that every match would be ran like this. If you don't want to compete as a pro - either register as a amateur or just don't come to the match. There are different levels of competition for every sport. In one of the early post by Z... He said that in his definition, if you won 400 or more "Don't quote me I did not go back and look on this one" than you would be a PRO? That is kinda were I was coming form Jake. So if what you said is the case, then it might no be bad. But if you are forced to compete as a pro after winning some thing at all, then it is very different to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 When I ask where the entry fee money is coming from, I am asking how Smitty, Ben and I are going to afford it? Like I said earlier, it is an investment in your business. But the money up, perform well, and get paid. We're not doing it for a buisness. If I had to pay $500 for a match I couldn't shoot. I won L10 at A8 a couple of years back. I got much for than $500 out of the deal. I'm not a professional, and I doubt that anyone would disagree with me. But now you want me to compete in a class where I'll loose everytime? It was posted last week that you beat Jarrett the other day...do you not think you might be able to do it again? Like Z says it is belief in your own ability..and NO, you won't win each time...you ain't the Tiger Woods of USPSA, but unless you try, you never know. You can't tell who will win... I have a bud who is a plumber by daily occupation, but you don't want to bet against him when he shoots pigeons...I have seen him run 23 straight and win more than 50K at a local "good ole boy" shoot in South Tx....I personally finished 8th out of 29 and won a little more than 5500. You pay your money and take your chances...that is the way the big boys do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo23 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 [One of the only things that I can see about this being not a good idea IMO. Is along the lines of what Matt C said just a few posts above. If he won 500 a little while back how does that truly make him a pro?? I know what your definition said Z, but I would have to agree with Matt here. If I had a good day at a match and won 500 or more. I am not a pro.... I just had good day, and now I need to work 10 times harder to just go to a match and shoot. May fun just turned in to work and I did not even want it o Further more, if that day made me now have to fork out a ton of cash to compete in the sport that I love, I might just have to not do it any more. I guess MYpoint is that some of us might really be here for fun and fun alone. Of course every day I want to get as good as I can possibly be. But that doe not mean that I want to turn it into a job. No matter how good I am.... I think that others might share the same thought... Just my .02 Turbo I totally agree, I have LONG said that as a shooter, who is doing it for fun, you/me/us as shooters, should NOT expect to be compensated from a prize table. YOU have just made my point from several long closed threads. This is not a prize table tread. You like Ben would not be affected by this proposal. Keep shooting for fun, I do! Here Here Z, I do believe that there is merit in what you are thinking, if the clarification is done correctly. On your side of that idea, is that how would you be able to keep out some of the high level GM's from not winning the AM divisions? Maybe I have read this a little too long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Money talks and BS walks. I'll bet your legs are tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) Money talks and BS walks. I'll bet your legs are tired. They weren't when I was your age... Edited March 17, 2008 by tightloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Read some of the personal stories about golfers who wash dishes to earn the $$ to enter the next tourney, drive there, sleep in their car and eat peanut butter in order to get to play golf for big $$...if you REALLY want it, you do that...so do you want to be a GM or a Pro. Like they say in some places; Money talks and BS walks. I ate McDonald's for 10 days, borrowed money, you name it, I did it. I remember driving from northeast Texas straight thru to Florida, about 21 hours, because I could not afford a hotel room. Did it make me rich, nope, I played before the big money of today. But I had fun, and got to compete at the highest level for a few years. It was fun, it was worth the sacrifices. Would I do it again, YEP!!! Does it build character, not sure. Does the pro game show who the best is? YOU BET. I just can't see why anyone would not want to make money out of a sport they love. Heck, you are your own boss, etc.... OK, that was a bit nostalgic and off topic OK, let's get back on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snertley Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) So if we can't (or won't) shoot as a pro, I could be a PAID worker at the match. Since it has always been a volentear sport and I am working a match for the pro's I should be paid to work. Hey for the right pay I would paste targets, set steel AND pick up brass for the Big Dogs! Then we can start looking at paying the RO's , MD ect. I don't know of any "pro" sport that has unpaid officals running the game. Z I see where you are coming from, but it would be like making every local dirt track car racer compete in NASCAR. Only the rich could afford it so us poor people would just stay home. If you want a Pro shooting sport then start one. But 95%+ of the shooters in USPSA are not going to even try and play. And on top of that none of us would every see our kids, our spouses, the retirement funds are bad, house forclosure on bad month of shooting, ............................................. Just my 2cents Edited March 17, 2008 by snertley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 On your side of that idea, is that how would you be able to keep out some of the high level GM's from not winning the AM divisions? Turbo Essentially, it would take the guys, regardless of USPSA Classification, and let them enter as a pro and go for it. As has been said, there are some "A's" and plenty of "M's" that could compete and win money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Z, Put a match together. Start the circuit. Invite the top dawgs to pony up their $$. If there is room left open it up to amateurs. If they want to have a chance at the big $$, they pay the PRO registration fee. If just wanna shoot it for fun, pay the amateur fee. I'm sure you can get TGO (used only as an example) to Florida if for his $500 registration has a chance of taking home $5K. I'll help you by working the match. I want to be there when the big money action happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 If anything like this comes about ...with $500.00 fees...and the cash going to only the top tier. My wife and I would stop shooting this sport all together!...and stop patronizing venders that support it. We would then only shoot Outlaw 3gun. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 If anything like this comes about ...with $500.00 fees...and the cash going to only the top tier.My wife and I would stop shooting this sport all together!...and stop patronizing venders that support it. We would then only shoot Outlaw 3gun. Jim Jim How would it change your USPSA shooting? The $500 entry would ONLY be for the shooters entering in the Professional division. No difference for you and Nanci!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo23 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 On your side of that idea, is that how would you be able to keep out some of the high level GM's from not winning the AM divisions? Turbo Essentially, it would take the guys, regardless of USPSA Classification, and let them enter as a pro and go for it. As has been said, there are some "A's" and plenty of "M's" that could compete and win money. OK, Lets says that an A or a M enters the PRO and wins some money. Not even the top spot. Are you saying that in the next match he or she could enter as an AM and not pay the fee? I thought that oyu said ealry on that once a pro always a pro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 So if we can't (or won't) shoot as a pro, I could be a PAID worker at the match. Since it has always been a volentear sport and I am working a match for the pro's I should be paid to work. Hey for the right pay I would paste targets, set steel AND pick up brass for the Big Dogs! Then we can start looking at paying the RO's , MD ect. I don't know of any "pro" sport that has unpaid officals running the game. Z I see where you are coming from, but it would be like making every local dirt track car racer compete in NASCAR. Only the rich could afford it so us poor people would just stay home. If you want a Pro shooting sport then start one. But 95%+ of the shooters in USPSA are not going to even try and play. And on top of that none of us would every see our kids, our spouses, the retirement funds are bad, house forclosure on bad month of shooting, ............................................. Just my 2cents for every paid TV guy broadcasting a golf match there are 20 UNPAID volenteers..that is how these things work...till the big TV $$ gets involved it is all unpaid except for the shooters who compete for the right to brag and take home the cash.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I think the idea has potential - although at first I would say the entry fee should be around 200 or 250....which is just like nationals. Eventually with time it may be feasible to have high dollar entry fees and pay outs but I think the sport needs a lot more maturity before that happens....don't forget how many hundreds of years golf has been played for. Shooting is an infant in comparison in every way.I'd definitely like to see that match happen though. And the reason it becomes possible for me is that you don't have to win the match to get a decent pay out. If 10th place (or whatever) is still paying out enough money to cover your entry fee, it makes it reasonable for the lesser-tier GMs to go for it. And, FINALLY someone is beginning to see how it works!!!!! +1 If I could not go to nationals and shoot the same event the Pros shoot I would pay $300+ to be able to do so. I am not a GM & may never be one. But I really like getting to shoot the same event as they do. If I had to pay 20% more in a match fee and have that amount go into a pot for just the guys that declare "PRO" I would do it. and jump up on the Soap box with ya. IN fact I will start it at the club level += Any GM that comes to one of my Club Matches will not pay a range fee, for as long as I run my club. Thats out of respect I have for their sacrifice Any GM that is polite that is Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 If anything like this comes about ...with $500.00 fees...and the cash going to only the top tier.My wife and I would stop shooting this sport all together!...and stop patronizing venders that support it. We would then only shoot Outlaw 3gun. Jim Jim How would it change your USPSA shooting? The $500 entry would ONLY be for the shooters entering in the Professional division. No difference for you and Nanci!!! When the end game in this sport becomes just another quest for money....Im out. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Nemo I wish I had the time to put on a match. And, yeah, I bet Robbie would show up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 TL...I'd put my $500 up against you or Z in a big match. (and that is $500 that needs to go into my truck right now) Let me know. I might have to oil up the single-stack. (If you guys aren't willing to do that with your own money, then it might be less rude of you to suggest that somebody else is gutless for not doing it with their money.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61542 I guess we'll see how this goes....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Lets says that an A or a M enters the PRO and wins some money. Not even the top spot. Are you saying that in the next match he or she could enter as an AM and not pay the fee? I thought that oyu said ealry on that once a pro always a pro? In the world of golf, which I have based a lot of this on, a player can apply for his/her amateur status. The length of time you have to wait is based upon the length of time you competed as a pro and and how successful you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 If anything like this comes about ...with $500.00 fees...and the cash going to only the top tier.My wife and I would stop shooting this sport all together!...and stop patronizing venders that support it. We would then only shoot Outlaw 3gun. Jim Jim How would it change your USPSA shooting? The $500 entry would ONLY be for the shooters entering in the Professional division. No difference for you and Nanci!!! When the end game in this sport becomes just another quest for money....Im out. Jim I didn't really read into it that the Idea would change the way the rest of us play the game. If all of the -We The Shooter_ money went to the Pros that would not be rite. But I am fine with a % The Sportsman's Team Challenge had a real big Pro division payout $36,000 for first & $20,000+ second the event was Televised for several years, I bet 90% of the guys on the forum have not heard about it. The Pros getting big $$$ did not hurt the event at all - from my prospective The thing I like the most about all the shooting games is that we get to shoot against the best of the best. Paying to watch count me out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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