chp5 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Cav Arms Cav Arms is a great outfit, full of good guys who support our sport. BATF on the other hand . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 WoW I wonder whats going on?? Seriously doubt those guys would ever do anything wrong Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) WTF!! ar15 link Thats the gun biz, one piece of paper or ser.# off and it's Let's go get them boys !!! Edited February 28, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Another link. http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/pages/Ho...mp;pageId=1.1.1 One of those 870's look like it was used in Sinistral's vids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Maybe ATF is jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I know I can't express a political pro-gun opinion, even on a pro-gun forum, but it will be worse, like the nightmare of the 90's if we lose in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Man, that sucks....not what gun owners or gun companies need to have happen right now. Generally speaking I'm not a big fan of the BATF....had a few less than pleasant experiences with them on a professional level....so please don't think I'm defending them. It's going to be very interesting to see what the outcome of this turns out to be. The search warrant affidavit is a public document that the news folks will get a hold of very shortly. It gives the who, what, when, where and why for probable cause...i.e. a reasonable belief that something illegal has taken or is taking place. That is the document used to convince the judge why a search should be authorized. If you don't convince the judge, you don't get the warrant. So, we'll know what the supporting documentation is in short order. News agencies often have people camped out at the courthouse waiting for this sort of stuff to get filed. Also, within a couple of days the responsible ATF agent will have to file a return of the warrant that lists exactly what was seized, if anything, during the search. I believe that the ATF can conduct an inspection to catalog and review records without notice for compliance purposes and that might by why they had the tables outside with all the guns....so, no guns might wind up being seized, but due to the huge number, they could conduct the cataloging/verification faster using the tables outside. The warrant return is also a public document that the news folks will get a hold of as well, so we'll know what, if anything, gets seized. I would be really surprised if the claims of one disgruntled former worker could lead to such a major operation....there has to be something more going on. To conduct something on such a large scale you'd have to convince a supervisor, someone in higher management, an Assistant United States Attorney and then a judge and it's going to take a lot of supporting information for them to sign off on it. From past experience I'd expect the supporting documentation (affidavit) to be anywhere from 20 to 100 pages long on something this large. Hopefully it's one of those things where there's one or two bad apples doing something that nobody else knew about....I can imagine that would be possible in such a large operation. Sure is frustrating as the gun industry doesn't need any bad press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Well, I just watched the local news on this here in Scottsdale and according to that story they seized everything in the shop. Video showed them tagging all of the firearms. The reporters didn't seem to know why the search/seizure was conducted. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) Gilbert firearms business raided by ATF over suspected violations Erin Kozak The Arizona Republic Feb. 27, 2008 04:42 PM Federal agents served a search warrant on a Gilbert firearms business Wednesday morning. Agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives began removing firearms from Cavalry Arms Corporation, which has a federal license to sell firearms, starting at 8 a.m. The business is on the 700 block of Commerce Ave., which is near Guadalupe and Cooper roads. "ATF executed a search warrant for alleged violations of federal firearms laws," special agent Tom Mangan said. Shawn Nealon, the founder and chief executive officer of Cavalry Arms Corporation, said that he did not have any details about the search and that his attorneys were working on the issue. Edited February 28, 2008 by AikiDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledge Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Not good at all. I hope everything gets straightened out ASAP, and they can get back to business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigdawg Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 It looks like another show for the media. What their any purpose other than a media affair to take everything outside on tables for the public and cameras to see to tag and "check serial numbers". Is the BATFE budget up for a vote in congress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 On the news story when they talked to neighbors, those folks have already decided someone is guilty of something. Several of them said "wow, you just never know, do you?". That means they have decided CavArms is guilty of something. Bad timing, for sure. MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2fast Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 On the news story when they talked to neighbors, those folks have already decided someone is guilty of something. Several of them said "wow, you just never know, do you?". That means they have decided CavArms is guilty of something. Bad timing, for sure. MLM The same thing just jumped out at me, especially when one of them said "knew he was a gun manufacturer.....gotta be something going on or they wouldn't be here". Not to join the tin foil hat club because maybe there is a reason for them to be there but I'm always amazed how many folks just blindly believe the gov't is always acting in their best interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysued Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 NBC Chanel 12 was more interested in the Video posted on the Cav Arms Website, the one the gal shoots the Terrorists!! They could care less about the raid, it's a gun company, it must be a legal raid, had it been a Crack House, They would have objected to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 "People were shocked at how many firearms were removed from the building" It's a firearms manufacturer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupidity runs rampant during campaign/election time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 I'm wearing my Cav Arms shirt every where today - hoping for a quick and positive outcome for the Cav Arms guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2fast Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) "People were shocked at how many firearms were removed from the building" It's a firearms manufacturer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupidity runs rampant all the time in this country. Fixed that for you...... hoping for a quick and positive outcome for the Cav Arms guys. Big +1 Edited February 28, 2008 by j2fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 This is the anniversery of the Waco Texas, Branch Davidian raid. Guess the BATF wanted to celebrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) On the news story when they talked to neighbors, those folks have already decided someone is guilty of something. Several of them said "wow, you just never know, do you?". That means they have decided CavArms is guilty of something. Bad timing, for sure. MLM I think it's probably a matter of perspective just like some people that automatically say they're innocent Neither side really knows anything yet. I hope they weren't doing anything wrong, and it sucks for shooters and gun companies, but it certainly doesn't look good right now Edited February 28, 2008 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 link Looks like fraud and money laundering. Not gun related, but guns are involved...Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 linkLooks like fraud and money laundering. Not gun related, but guns are involved...Duh. So what does the ATF have to do with fraud, that would be the FBI right?? Looks like theres nothing to do with fraud and everything to do with a gun show for the media, you can see the reporters salavating as they cant contain themselfs!!! I cant recall raids on any other businesses where all of their "LEGAL" product gets displayed on tables for the media like illegal drugs or counterfiet dvd's. The idiots in the general public have already hung them. Authorities are obligated to protect your dignity and respect your privacy even during the serving of a warrant right! I'm going to stop right there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 linkLooks like fraud and money laundering. Not gun related, but guns are involved...Duh. Media frequently gets it wrong, but there are 3 consistent themes listed in all the stories: -alleged fraud -alleged money-laundering -alleged "firearms violations" (which is automatic in this case, if the first 2 are proven). One common cause rumored (though only on the net) is: "disgruntled employee." I've no idea if thats true or not. But if so, it is possible that this might be a case of a single person making a sworn statement to BATFE. It might also be a tough case to prove. In any event, Cav Arms seems to have really supported the 3gun sports - so yesterday was certainly a set back for us competition shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Who would not be afraid...seeing all those pink and purple assault weapons It will be interesting to find out what created this lunacy I sure hope these guys can win this battle! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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