SC plates

[tgibson]

We are looking at possibly putting together a set of Steel Challange plates to sell that will have enough plates to do five stages. Before we start putting anything together, we want to make sure everything will be "to specifications" so that they can be used in sanctioned matches.

My question is, does anyone know the specific thicknesses and hardnesses of the plates. Our initial intent is to make them out of 1/4"AR500 plate which holds up great to pistol rounds. We just want to make sure that 1/4" can be used at SC sanctioned matches.

We have this question into the USPSA and the new SC board/administrators, but I am impatient. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

TG

Edited February 26, 2008 by tgibson

[Blockhead]

Take a look at the Steel Challenge website at http://steelchallenge.com/ . There's a tab for WSSC stages and also some links to contact the retiring owners with questions. It would be cool to see MGM come up with a package deal that would setup a club for SC.

Regards,

[shred]

<moved to Steel Challenge forum>

From what I remember, the SC uses 3/8" thick plates, but I have never heard of an actual spec for them. If the 1/4" AR500 holds up well to major open loads, that would be great for the 18x24" plates that are way too heavy now.

[tgibson]

<moved to Steel Challenge forum>

From what I remember, the SC uses 3/8" thick plates, but I have never heard of an actual spec for them. If the 1/4" AR500 holds up well to major open loads, that would be great for the 18x24" plates that are way too heavy now.

That is part of the reason we are contemplating going with the 1/4". We can keep the cost of the package down because the shipping won't cost so much.

TG

[DMS42]

I'm not anyone that knows anything about steel, but I have seen lots of popper made out of 3/8 inch steel that had been hit so many times that the face was either dished or curved. Wouldn't 1/4 inch plate be even worse? What is the difference between AR500 and T500? T500 being what I'm used to shooting.

[pmd]

Take a look at what Karl at GT Target sells - he makes a good product.

http://www.gttargets.com/targetsandbases.htm

[tgibson]

I'm not anyone that knows anything about steel, but I have seen lots of popper made out of 3/8 inch steel that had been hit so many times that the face was either dished or curved. Wouldn't 1/4 inch plate be even worse? What is the difference between AR500 and T500? T500 being what I'm used to shooting.

To be honest, I am not quite sure what T500 even is. If you mean T1 which is what a bunch of people used to use for steel targets, here is a little piece from the MGM website:

What are your targets made of? All our targets are made of 500 brinell steel, which is the same hardness as Armor Plate. AR 500 is comparable to roughly a 52 on the Rockwell C scale, which is also about the same hardness as a good knife blade. In addition to the chemical composition of the steel, a “quench and temper” process at the steel mill further enhances the steel hardness and toughness. In comparison, your car is made of mild steel, about 135 Brinell, and T-1, (the old steel for targets) is about a 235 hardness. AR500 can withstand literally thousands of rounds from reasonable distances without significant damage.

The reason the poppers you saw were getting dished was probably because it was made out of A36 plate. We are contemplating making these plates out of AR500. However, if we do decide to go with A36, it will be 3/8" plate and the plates can shot on either side so if it starts to get dished, simply turn the target over. I hope this cleared things up a little.

TG

[AlamoShooter]

I don't know about the 1/4" ?? being a 500 to 400 harness may do it , BUT the thiner steel may let the bullet (bounce) more than the 3/8" I have been using 3/8 and 1/2" 18x24 for about 10 years the 1/2" are just two plates but they can bust your but moving them and I mostly just use them if I have too.

If you had a 500 in 1/8 thick the bullet would act like a trampoline on it but the 3/8 sucks up all the bullet.

I have some very old 5/16" 19" x 26"targets -old as in 25 + years = I don't use any of them cuzz they have a bad cup.

If I can set up the 1/2" plates for years thin I think your club can set up the 3/8 with out that much sweat

Get the good stuff in 3/8" = cuzz I can tell you that 15 years goes buy fast

[Karl @ GT]

Hello tgibson, We have been selling the 1/4" AR400 for about 10 years for shooters that need a good target for recreational shooting. They hold up great with limited use. But if they are used often and pounded every weekend or for club use they will crack around any welds and need to be replaced. You might consider 5/16" AR and see how that works. I would just stick with the 3/8" AR and be safe, we have very limited problems with the 3/8" targets. The 1/4" does not work at all for the 18 x 24 rectangles, they develop a big curve quickly.

regards, karl @ GT

[bgary]

Just two minor data-points... probably irrelevant, but may be worth keeping in mind:

-- For a given number of shooters, SC targets get shot 5 times as much as "regular" steel targets (each shooter takes 5 runs). If you factor in re-entries, etc, you gotta figure that a SC plate is going to "age" faster than a steel popper. So... maybe that should be figured in.

-- and, 2, there are actually two sets of plates at the Steel Challenge range in Piru. The "regular" targets, and the "match" targets. The match targets are held aside and *only* used in the championship match, in order to ensure that they remain in pristine condition. The other set, used for monthly matches and practice, would probably be better ones to ask The Mikes about, because they see a lot more use.

$.02

Bruce

[AlamoShooter]

Hello tgibson, We have been selling the 1/4" AR400 for about 10 years for shooters that need a good target for recreational shooting. They hold up great with limited use. But if they are used often and pounded every weekend or for club use they will crack around any welds and need to be replaced. You might consider 5/16" AR and see how that works. I would just stick with the 3/8" AR and be safe, we have very limited problems with the 3/8" targets. The 1/4" does not work at all for the 18 x 24 rectangles, they develop a big curve quickly.

regards, karl @ GT

I love every pice of steel I got form Karl *First class*..... and his targets are great too

[DMS42]

I'm not anyone that knows anything about steel, but I have seen lots of popper made out of 3/8 inch steel that had been hit so many times that the face was either dished or curved. Wouldn't 1/4 inch plate be even worse? What is the difference between AR500 and T500? T500 being what I'm used to shooting.

To be honest, I am not quite sure what T500 even is. If you mean T1 which is what a bunch of people used to use for steel targets, here is a little piece from the MGM website:

What are your targets made of? All our targets are made of 500 brinell steel, which is the same hardness as Armor Plate. AR 500 is comparable to roughly a 52 on the Rockwell C scale, which is also about the same hardness as a good knife blade. In addition to the chemical composition of the steel, a “quench and temper” process at the steel mill further enhances the steel hardness and toughness. In comparison, your car is made of mild steel, about 135 Brinell, and T-1, (the old steel for targets) is about a 235 hardness. AR500 can withstand literally thousands of rounds from reasonable distances without significant damage.

The reason the poppers you saw were getting dished was probably because it was made out of A36 plate. We are contemplating making these plates out of AR500. However, if we do decide to go with A36, it will be 3/8" plate and the plates can shot on either side so if it starts to get dished, simply turn the target over. I hope this cleared things up a little.

TG

Thanks. T1 was what I was thinking of. Don't know where I got the T500 other than I couldn't remember for sure. Was thinking T1000 but knew that it was wrong. Still think that 1/4 inch would be a bit prone to dishing or cupping even with the additional hardness.

Thanks again.

Dennis

[tgibson]

I'm not anyone that knows anything about steel, but I have seen lots of popper made out of 3/8 inch steel that had been hit so many times that the face was either dished or curved. Wouldn't 1/4 inch plate be even worse? What is the difference between AR500 and T500? T500 being what I'm used to shooting.

To be honest, I am not quite sure what T500 even is. If you mean T1 which is what a bunch of people used to use for steel targets, here is a little piece from the MGM website:

What are your targets made of? All our targets are made of 500 brinell steel, which is the same hardness as Armor Plate. AR 500 is comparable to roughly a 52 on the Rockwell C scale, which is also about the same hardness as a good knife blade. In addition to the chemical composition of the steel, a "quench and temper" process at the steel mill further enhances the steel hardness and toughness. In comparison, your car is made of mild steel, about 135 Brinell, and T-1, (the old steel for targets) is about a 235 hardness. AR500 can withstand literally thousands of rounds from reasonable distances without significant damage.

The reason the poppers you saw were getting dished was probably because it was made out of A36 plate. We are contemplating making these plates out of AR500. However, if we do decide to go with A36, it will be 3/8" plate and the plates can shot on either side so if it starts to get dished, simply turn the target over. I hope this cleared things up a little.

TG

Thanks. T1 was what I was thinking of. Don't know where I got the T500 other than I couldn't remember for sure. Was thinking T1000 but knew that it was wrong. Still think that 1/4 inch would be a bit prone to dishing or cupping even with the additional hardness.

Thanks again.

Dennis

We have done some pretty serious testing on the 1/4"AR500 plate and are very happy with the results. The other good thing about these targets is if they ever do start to get dished, they are smooth on both sides so you can simply turn them over and shoot the other side. The other added bonus is that they will lay perfectly flat so that they can stack up nice and neat in the target shed.

TG

[XRe]

Using a spring system to cushion the plate also seems to help to some extent - basically, you put a spring in between the plate at the stand, so that the spring gets compressed a bit upon bullet impact. At my club, our smaller plates were dishing a bit after several years of use, but not too badly. Flipping them fixed the problem....

As far as stacking goes, we leave them attached to the stand poles, so it doesn't matter if the're flat or not

[Flexmoney]

How are you guys turning these "flat plates" around? How do they attach to the stands? Hole and a hanger?

[AlamoShooter]

How are you guys turning these "flat plates" around? How do they attach to the stands? Hole and a hanger?

yes

You end up with a head of a bolt or the head of a pin with = like a button head. You can get some splater off the bolt head so rounding it down helps.

[Ron Ankeny]

While I am not an advertising vendor, I make a lot of steel plates for use locally. FWIW, 12 inch round plates made of 1/4 inch AR 500 will bow like mad and will need to be turned around frequently. I just can't imagine using 1/4 AR 500 for the rectangles considering the pounding they will take up close from the Open blasters. They just gotta bow, but they will be light.

FWIW, I can't find any reference to plate thickness in the SC rulebook. You might want to direct your question to USPSA in Sedro. I would hate to see them make a ruling that would take existing plates made from a "potential" non-standard thickness out of service.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Ron Ankeny

[tgibson]

While I am not an advertising vendor, I make a lot of steel plates for use locally. FWIW, 12 inch round plates made of 1/4 inch AR 500 will bow like mad and will need to be turned around frequently. I just can't imagine using 1/4 AR 500 for the rectangles considering the pounding they will take up close from the Open blasters. They just gotta bow, but they will be light.

FWIW, I can't find any reference to plate thickness in the SC rulebook. You might want to direct your question to USPSA in Sedro. I would hate to see them make a ruling that would take existing plates made from a "potential" non-standard thickness out of service.

The plate we started testing is about a 12" square just because that is what we had. The first day we put upwards of 500 rounds of full power 9mm on it (factory HP's, BT's, etc). The second day we put about 300 rounds of full power .45 on it (same type bullets). The third day, we took it to a small match and shot it with everything from a 9mm to a .45, to 7 1/2 shot 12ga. After the match, we shot about another 500 rounds of everything from .380 to .45. Out fo the last bit, about 300 of those rounds were the full power .45. At this point, we have not had ANY fragments come back on any of the shooters, and the plate is as flat and smooth as a piece of glass....literally. I'll let you know how things go as we continue the testing.

TG

[Flexmoney]

...considering the pounding they will take up close from the Open blasters.

Yep...that is the test, I think. Open guns ar major. Maybe some pistol caliber carbine.