ExtremeShot Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I've been playing around with different powders, different springs, different bullet weights, etc, etc, and I'm still having more dot rise than I would like. In an effort to try to figure out how flat everyone else's gun shoots, can you look at the picture below and tell me how high your dot rises? Currently my dot is rising to about the 2.5 to 3 position. Thanks, Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 My dot moves about the same as yours I would say closer to the 2 then the 3. I have one of Dans in 9 guns with a recoil master in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I see a 2.5 in mine, maybe 3.5 if I am lazy or don't have a primo grip. I need a solid 2 to call shots. I can make mine stay under 1, physically by strangling the snot out of it and with load/spring/weight changes that require no change in my grip or grip strength, but it is miserable to try to call shots. I shoot more points in less time with more dot rise. I can shoot .20 splits, my dot goes up, comes right back to where it started from and waits and waits and waits. If I had to guess my dot is back and waiting in a third of my split time. Yours probably comes back just as fast..... My advise to you? Quit dinking with your gun and your loads, get your grip refined where the dot comes right back where it left from and shoot it to death. Then worry about what you want in the next gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'd like to hear from a few more guys, however, if somewhere between the 2 and 3 position is the norm, then I'm feeling a lot better. ....I was thinking you guys had your guns fine tuned to where they would rise no more than around the 1 position. Thx, Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I can tune mine out where it is a 1 or less, but it sucks to shoot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 I can tune mine out where it is a 1 or less, but it sucks to shoot..... Why would it suck to shoot?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 The recoil has to go some where if the gun does not move more of it is transfered to the shooter. If you work the comp harder you get more noise and blast. My gun comes back the same way every time and it usualy has to wait for me to call the next shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff686 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I sure wish we had an empirical method for measuring dot movement. I saw the camera visor on Shooting USA, that allowed them to film the exact POV of the shooter. You could actually see the dot as they were shooting. This was great, because it included ALL factors that impact dot motion, including grip/stance (not just a gun rest/vice). I've been considering designing some type of universal 3 axis accelerometer to measure and track gun motion during firing. Ideally, I would put it in the base of the magazine, so we could put it in different guns to compare their recoil performance. You could even us it to compare different grips or grip material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Sorry but I'll post that I really dont care as long as its consistant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I like what Bill said. I have been down that road, looking for the perfect setup, the perfect load, the perfect recoil impulse.......it does not exist. Pick one and shootthe hell out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I look to have the dot track straight up then straight down returning to the same spot...To me shooting open is about learning the timing of your gun/dot and once you have this down it becomes FUN!! Just my .02 Randal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 I hear what you guys are saying, however, I'm interested in knowing what kind of dot rise is reasonable. For example, if grip/technique/etc. was good (lets say the shooter is a Master class shooter), and his dot rise was up around 4 or even off the screen, I bet you guys would be saying that that was too much and to try a different powder, or bullet, or spring or whatever. ...I'm just trying to figure out what kind of rise one should expect out of a Open gun. There has to be a number that is too much otherwise having the compensator is pointless. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 (edited) As long as it doesn't leave the lens and goes straight up and comes back down I am good. Is it possible to cut that down? Like HSMITH absolutely. My first open gun was a 9x25 cannon with 3 reverse angle comp ports and 1 straight up port. When burning some ungodly charge of N110 it was completely flat to the point that you could actually see the dot dip down under certain conditions. I never could learn to call my shots with that gun. I discovered I needed dot movement of 2.5-3 to be able to call my shots. It was like there was some minimum amount of dot movement required for me to see what I needed to see to call the shot. Peter Edited February 23, 2008 by caspian guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'm in about the same area....something like a 2.5 on your scale on average. If I get a bad grip it might go up to 3.5. With a perfect grip from a stable platform it might be a bit under 2. Any sideways movement of the dot is my fault and not the gun/ammo. Bedell shorty in 38SC with 121gr IFPs and N350 powder at 171pf. I was talking with one of the most respected gunsmiths in the business two nights ago about an Open gun project and he said he's been able to build a gun that had no noticable dot movement (at least it appears to not move)...just a little wiggle and that he couldn't shoot it well at all. He went back to a setup where the dot tracks straight up and down consistently. His comment was that the gun cycles in about .07sec and even a super, super fast split is slower than that, so the gun is waiting on you no matter how fast you are. The lack of dot movement actually slowed him down and kept him from being able to call his shots well....pretty telling stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'm having trouble measuring how high my dot goes ............... The Russian Migs keep distracting me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'm having trouble measuring how high my dot goes ............... The Russian Migs keep distracting me That's a negative Ghostrider, the pattern is full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 ExSt, it sucks to shoot because there is no definition in the dot that tells you where the bullet went. I have had mine where the dot just fuzz's out for a tiny TINY fraction of a second from what I assume to be vibration, then clears up. Call a tight shot in the fuzz? Nope, I can't. Sounds like Derek can't either. Speed for me, and I suspect for most, comes from certainty that the last bullet went in an acceptable place. That leaves my mind calm, knowing the last shot is good, and all that is left at this moment is the intent to shoot another good shot. If I can continue that through the stage I am good to go, time will be good and points will be there. Bill, Paul, Chris, Bart, these are REALLY good shooters, and they all WANT some dot rise. They don't care if it leaves the lens even, they only care that it does rise, and that it comes right back. Now, be assured that I am not busting your beans. There IS a bad dot track/s, it exists and it sucks in a huge way. If you have a dot that goes up, comes down PAST where it came from and you have to bring it back up, well, that SUCKS. If you have a dot that goes up and does not come all the way back, well that SUCKS too. If you have a dot that goes up and right/left and does not return that SUCKS. Most of these things are grip related in a decent Open gun, could be spring related to some extent also. If the dot does not return to the initial point of aim it NEEDS to be addressed, no matter what the cause is. Figure it out and get it fixed. My Open gun is pretty much a beat up turd at this point, it has had all sorts of testing and evil foisted upon it. Even so, I would really like to watch the guy that can outrun the return of that particular gun. That would be something to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I hear what you guys are saying, however, I'm interested in knowing what kind of dot rise is reasonable. For example, if grip/technique/etc. was good (lets say the shooter is a Master class shooter), and his dot rise was up around 4 or even off the screen, I bet you guys would be saying that that was too much and to try a different powder, or bullet, or spring or whatever. ...I'm just trying to figure out what kind of rise one should expect out of a Open gun. There has to be a number that is too much otherwise having the compensator is pointless.Darren Darren Sometimes these answers come off smarta--- cause we are M/GM's and we know what is important to getting a card and then winning. Ready for some real input?? I have no idea how high my dot goes ............. and I have shot Open for almost 20 years and approaching 1 million rds. ( I should be better) I mean I couldn't testify in court to which number. The dot tracking will help you refine your grip/stance/push/index and you want consistancy so you can shoot that stage while carrying the bucket/leaning out/running/at 44 yards/in 4.33 sec or whatever. Thats more important than equipment but sure go ahead refine and select powders and springs but most is really personal prefrence. I am just happy with a gun that runs cause that wins matches if you do your part. Doing your part is a most important factor too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'm having trouble measuring how high my dot goes ............... The Russian Migs keep distracting me Its classified but I 'll bet your dot goes to 65000 feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm3gnr Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I have just started shooting open, 1 month or so, So my first question is. What is that shiny thing in the center of your scope ? Mine goes consistently to 2.5-3 and tracks straight back down. I find a lot of times the dot is there waiting on me to release the next shot. 5" SVI 38sc, 124 gr, lots of ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmd Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I just switched back to 38super comp from Major 9 and I am in the process of load development - Right now the dot is out of the screen -probably ~6 if the lines cont. My goal is to find a consistent dot track inside the lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focus Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 (edited) 2-3, here is how I do it for 9 Major... Load up 5 rounds of 5 loads then go chrono Load 20-30 of each that make major Put a 9Lb spring in and shoot them all doing an array of shootings like doubles and such (steal works well) PAY ATTENTION TO THE FEEL AND DOT Now pick the one I like load 50-100 rounds and go test 6-12 pound springs (a 9 is what most people use) doing double taps from the draw (look at the shot spreads) If you have done your homework and all is well you should have a flat shooting gun. It is easier to shoot a under sprung gun than an over sprung gun in my experience, if it is over sprung the slide hits to hard and ends up making the tip of the gun dip. If your grip is not correct then you will NOT have a flat shooting gun. These videos may help... http://www.oregonshooting.com/vids/spgrip1.wmv http://www.oregonshooting.com/vids/grip2.wmv Edited February 23, 2008 by Focus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 My old 9 gun was around 1.5 or 2....my last 38 sc gun was around 3.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Depending entirely on grip, mine ranges between 2 and 3.5. My old gun is the same way. When I'm shooting with the most attention, and calling my shots best, and actually shooting at the fastest possible pace, I notice the dot traveling higher... go figure. Consistent is FAR more important than flat.... but I have shot some guns (recent designs, mind you) where the dot literally leaves the lens, and does so in such a quick fashion that you can't even begin to follow it away - I can't call shots on that at all, and I found that setup to be completely unshootable. YMMV. Stop chasing flat. Start chasing consistent. Shoot the snot out of it. Now you've got several GMs and Ms telling you that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I'm also new to Open shooting. My scope doesn't have those lines in it.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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