Tumbler issue?

[flyer]

I have a Thumler's Tumbler that's about 15 years old. Still works great. I don't think anything about them has changed in that time, other than price.

[Kyle O]

My FA old bowl design bit the dust after 2 yrs. I'm gonna get a Dillon. I have been nothing short of impressed with their other products, so I'll give them some more business.

[gamingoddess]

I live an apartment (unfortunately upstairs) with walls and floors/ceilings that are not sound proof at all. Do you guys have any recommendations of a tumbler that is quiet enough so that my neighbors won't have the incentive to knock down my door? I do not shoot enough to warrant getting a large tumbler so the smaller the better (I can barely fit anything in this apartment anyways)

[JKSNIPER]

JAY6,

I must second the previous comment made by another member who stated something to the effect of NEVER bringing the tumbler into your home.

The lead contamination is greatest from the tumbler. More so than from casting/pouring (if you cast your own projectiles) lead.

Children are highly succeptable to lead poisoning and small kids crawl around on the floor and put everything into their mouths.

Always wear an apron of some type to be left in the garage/shed area when you're done pouring out the tumbled brass and its a good idea to wear a respirator and no drinking/smoking/eating in the area.

Cover your shoes with a tyvek reusable bootie (Leave them outside when you're done) and wear gloves to avoid lead contamination getting on your hands and absorbing through the skin.

We've had more than one guy here be told by his doc to stay away from shooting /the range/reloading due to being cavalier about lead/tumblers.

JK

[LPatterson]

I live an apartment (unfortunately upstairs) with walls and floors/ceilings that are not sound proof at all. Do you guys have any recommendations of a tumbler that is quiet enough so that my neighbors won't have the incentive to knock down my door? I do not shoot enough to warrant getting a large tumbler so the smaller the better (I can barely fit anything in this apartment anyways)

My recommendation would be the Midway deal of tumbler & media separator. Limit the amount of brass at each cleaning & use lots of media to cushion the brass. Lizid Litter at Petco works fine. For noise try putting it in the bathtub since this is usually away from living areas & bedrooms.

[shred]

You could try some of the liquid cleaner options. I haven't heard much about them lately, but they're out there.

I've finally worn through the bowl of my Midway tumbler. That's a lotta tumbling.

[update: and the motor up and quit turning today.. after 16 years and at least 250K rounds. I want my money back! )

[ChrisStock]

My little cheapie FA tumbler has run close to 40K of 9MM,.40, .45, and .223 in the last 12 months completely issue free. I guess I lucked out, as it does stay out in the garage in our 80-90% humidity and heat. If it ain't broke, well,....

[PCFlorida]

I have the large Dillon, CV-2000 I believe, the predecessor to the current CV-2001. I can't even begin to guess how many 100K pieces of brass have been cleaned in it over the past 20+ years. I did about 5-6K just last week.

Like most Dillon stuff, it just works.

[Irate]

The tumbler that I bought not even a year ago shit the bed last night. Now it was a Franklin Arsenal (kinda cheap) and it had only done maybe 3-4K cases since I got it. It does stay outside in the garage all year though. Was this just the case of buying a cheap peice of crap or should I move it inside?

Also, what would be a good replacement for it? I want something that is going to WORK for a long time.

Mine did the same thing. If you take it apart you will see that one of the wires vibrated loose from its clamp. Complete the circuit again and your good to go. I havent had another problem since

irate

[bigstick0000]

harbor freight, small cement mixer on sell for $99.00., 3 years and going strong, cleans thousands

[AustinMike]

harbor freight, small cement mixer on sell for $99.00., 3 years and going strong, cleans thousands

Sounds like a good idea at first, but I got a batch of brass that had been tumbled like that. With looser tolerance dies, you may not notice any problems at all. With my setup of a Lee u-die and a Redding competition seater, I was getting shaved bullets. Drove me nuts for several hours trying to figure out the problem. Eric finally bet on the cement mixer cleaning method and had me check the case wall thickness. Bingo! Case walls at the mouth were too thick and under magnification you could see the edges looked like they were peened by tiny hammers. It's very subtle, but it's enough to shred bullet jacketing. It's the cases smacking against each other in a rotary tumbler or cement mixer that does this. I won't buy brass from anyone anymore unless it's uncleaned or I can be assured it was cleaned in a vibratory cleaner.

I'm attaching pictures of what I'm talking about. Hard to see with the naked eye, but there's good cases on the left and "mixerized" cases on the right. The other pic shows what happens when you seat with a tight tolerance die like the Redding (and yes, there is plenty of bell to the case.)

[JKSNIPER]

Mike,

Does using a chamfering tool help with it at all?

I clean all my brass in a Lyman turbo tumbler and so far it runs great.

Looking at the big Dillon one but holding off for now due to the big price on it.

JK

[LPatterson]

Mike,

The picture of the bullets looks like a case of too much crimp since ideally all you want to do is remove the bell caused by the powder measure. The case picture looks like end peening that should be ironed out as the powder measure insert goes inside the case. I used a rolling tumbler for 20 years before the motor failed and the motor or a new one was 3 times what I paid for it in the beginning. I am using an el-cheapo $39.95 Midway and except when trying to clean too many cases at one time has worked good for the past 8 years.

But then I wear $11 Wal Mart watches so that when the battery quits I can throw them away and start over.

[kevin c]

I had a lyman that lasted 16 years = for the last 6 years I would have to "Drop" it on the floor from about a foot up to get it to start up. The motor would bind up and the Jump start would get it going.

About two years ago I got the Big Dillon and a the smaller one used. both are great I really like the big one = I figured I would just try both out and sell the one i did not like as much.

JF

Try giving yours a good kick = I bet you can get some more life out of it.

If we're gonna get technical advice we need details.........exactly 12 inches from the floor? Boots or sneakers for the kick?

Well I not kiding sometimes just 4" would work on a hard contrete floor. 12" ? no I think it was 9" at the most.

The shoes and the kick can be just a bump. if you kick it too hard the it will fly = just a good bump that may move it on the floor 6" or less. Once it starts to turn like a near dead battery leave it alone untill it starts up.

My small Dillon has been going strong for 12 or 13 years, about 150 to 200K cases through it. Now it tends to bind at the start.

If I give the flyweight a whirl and then hit the switch, she'll go start up fine.

I should get up the nerve to strip and clean it. Any special grease/lube that should be used on the bearing/rotor?

[bigstick0000]

harbor freight small cement mixer on sale for $99.00, holds tons of brass, industrial strength motor, using it for a couple of years now, works great.

[AustinMike]

Mike,

Does using a chamfering tool help with it at all?

Possible, I don't have one to try, but I'd have to chamber a couple thousand cases. I ended up recycling the batch I had.

[AustinMike]

Mike,

The picture of the bullets looks like a case of too much crimp since ideally all you want to do is remove the bell caused by the powder measure. The case picture looks like end peening that should be ironed out as the powder measure insert goes inside the case.

The bullets in the picture were pulled from uncrimped cases. Look closely at the picture of the cartridge and you can still see the bell. It was pulled off the press right out of the seating die. Lead and moly fills the gap. Quite the mess! Unfortunately, the peening does not get ironed out by the powder measure insert. This boils down to the cases being slightly too thick at the mouth and jagged edges that scrape the bullet in a tight tolerance die like the Redding. It's possible you won't see a problem with a looser die. No more cement mixer for me. I try to buy dirty brass and I'll clean it myself!

Edit to add: Here's a link to my original post about the problem: Shaved bullets

Oh yeah, I still owe EricW a beer for pointing me to the solution!

Edited October 16, 2008 by AustinMike

[Baer45]

I am impressed with my new large Dillon...

[LPatterson]

Mike,

The picture of the bullets looks like a case of too much crimp since ideally all you want to do is remove the bell caused by the powder measure. The case picture looks like end peening that should be ironed out as the powder measure insert goes inside the case.

The bullets in the picture were pulled from uncrimped cases. Look closely at the picture of the cartridge and you can still see the bell. It was pulled off the press right out of the seating die. Lead and moly fills the gap. Quite the mess! Unfortunately, the peening does not get ironed out by the powder measure insert. This boils down to the cases being slightly too thick at the mouth and jagged edges that scrape the bullet in a tight tolerance die like the Redding. It's possible you won't see a problem with a looser die. No more cement mixer for me. I try to buy dirty brass and I'll clean it myself!

Edit to add: Here's a link to my original post about the problem: Shaved bullets

Oh yeah, I still owe EricW a beer for pointing me to the solution!

Sorry Mike, I was looking at the case expanded to 150% and the light at the top of the case appeared to angled toward the bullet like a crimp and not away from it. I either missed the original post or didn't associate the problem with this post.

[HSMITH]

Call Brian and get the great big Dillon, it is SOOO much better than anything else it isn't funny. I haven't had mine long but in the first week I cleaned ALL the brass I had, would have taken WEEKS to do with the smaller competitor units. 15 pounds at a time with enough power to clean the brass quickly is vastly better than 3-5 pounds and a much less aggressive agitation. This thing cleans brass in less than HALF the time the little Frankford Arsenal unit does.

[AustinMike]

Sorry Mike, I was looking at the case expanded to 150% and the light at the top of the case appeared to angled toward the bullet like a crimp and not away from it. I either missed the original post or didn't associate the problem with this post.

I think the empty cases in my picture were unsized/belled. The damage done by a mixer is really subtle and hard to see with the naked eye. You can see the damage with a magnifying glass and measure case wall thickness to tell for sure. I sure thought I was going crazy until Eric pointed me in the right direction. It's hard to explain to folks and usually people immediately say it's the way the press is set up. I guess it works for some people, but thrashing the brass around in a cement mixer is bad ju-ju to me.

Hmm...you guys have me thinking about the Dillon now. My Midway is at least 10 years old. It still works, but takes a long time.

[matt2ace]

I have been using my FA tumbler for about 8 years, cleaning atleast 6-8K rounds per year. Never gave me a single problem is any sort. I am careful about how much brass I load so I don't overload the unit.

[MemphisMechanic]

I live an apartment (unfortunately upstairs) with walls and floors/ceilings that are not sound proof at all. Do you guys have any recommendations of a tumbler that is quiet enough so that my neighbors won't have the incentive to knock down my door? I do not shoot enough to warrant getting a large tumbler so the smaller the better (I can barely fit anything in this apartment anyways)

Okay, so this is an old post. But I thought others might like to know.

I've been washing my brass, instead of tumbling it, for the last 3,000 rounds. Birchwood Casey's Brass Cartridge Cleaner is available locally at BassPro and Sportsman's Warehouse. It's about 10 bucks for enough to make 2 gallons. I reload 9mm exclusively, and use 4 5-gallon buckets for the process:

Bucket 1: Dirty brass

Bucket 2: Next batch of brass that's been sorted (I pitch all weird the foreign headstamps, 380s, 38Supers, and 40s that sneak in at this point) and awaiting cleaning. Once I get enough brass to be worth washing, I fill this bucket half-full of HOT tap water, mix in half of the cleaner (I use it at about half strength) and let it sit for about 20 minutes. Then go out there and shake the hell out of it for a while. I then let it sit overnight. The cleaner doesn't seem to work nearly as well on a second run, so you'd be best off washing a LOT of brass with the full bottle and some hot water, than trying to mix a bunch of cleaner and use it over and over on tiny batches of brass.

Bucket 3: The strainer. It's got several hundred 1/4" holes drilled in it. Pour the brass in here, and wash it out with a hose. If you leave the cleaner on them and just dry them like that, you'll get spots/stains on the brass as it dries.

I then pour them into a plastic tub lined with old towels, and shake 'em around to get the water out of all the cases. Then lay them out in front of a fan on another towel, and they'll be dry in an hour or two. A buddy sticks them in the oven, but I don't want them in the house, much less where I cook food.

Bucket 4: Brass ready to load. Whenever this gets half empty, I do another batch above, and refill it. As the casefeeder gets low, I'll pour some out of the bucket, spray it with One Shot, and refill the 650.

All of this sounds like a lot of work, but I've set it up so that each bucket has stuff in it all the time. In other words, I actually work backwards: When I'm running low on clean brass, I dump the clean stuff out of the solution, wash it, and dry it. Throw some cleaner together and clean all my sorted brass, etc.

I try to pick up brass exclusively from our local indoor range after IDPA matches, so it tends to be once-fired stuff from Rem or Win, and it's almost spotless. But I've cleaned some grimy outdoor-range brass that was pretty oxidized, too.

People freak out seeing my ammo, because while the gun runs perfectly, the brass isn't shiny. It's still dull and splotched with spots. But if you hold a tumbled round and one of my fuglier ones in your hand and close your eyes, they *feel* nearly identical. A tumbled round might be slightly smoother if the loader was anal about adding polishing compound, but they're both pretty slick. That's all the gun cares about.

The best part is the 'strainer' step. You're rinsing dark gray (sometimes black) water out of the bucket, and down the drain. None of it goes into the air. And while I wear long rubber 'kitchen' gloves during the hosing-off, I still bring along some soap, and wash my hands right there with the hose the moment I finish. There's no way it's not vastly healthier than tumbling, IMO.

Edited October 31, 2008 by MemphisMechanic

[Anon]

MemphisMechanic, You sound like me: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71680

You can save some $ and get the same results using white vinegar, and a touch of dishwashing liquid.

I will get around to buying a new tumbler one of these days, but for now, this works fine.

[JimmyZip]

I have a Thumler's Tumbler that's about 15 years old. Still works great. I don't think anything about them has changed in that time, other than price.

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