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Does a square-edged Firing Pin Stop reduces recoil?

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I'm not sure if I read it here but some 1911 gurus claimed a square-edged FPS helps reduce recoil compared to a rounded one.

I wanted to ask what you think about this modification. Any first hand info you can share?

Thanks and safe shooting!

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It doesn't reduce recoil, it just changes how the gun recoils. There is a very involved game you can play with slide weight, recoil spring, hammer spring, FP stop radius, etc. that all has to do with how the gun recoils and sights track.

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The forum over at M1911.org has a 50 page thread archieved discussing exactly this (I dont know forum edicate so I wont post a link, but its easy enough to find). When the thread was still active I finally got overcome by curiosity and PM's 1911Tuner, one of the adminstrators over there and neck deep in the discusson and he invited me over to his house since I only live about an hour away.

He donated a new firing pin stop, did the radiusing and fitting, and we stepped out into his back yard and shot away. It doesnt reduce recoil in my opinion per se, but on my Kimber Gold Match shooting factory 230 ball, it definately changed the feel of the recoil, definately. To me it felt like the slide moved more directly rearward, versus rear and up...a flatter recoil... YMMV.

You can read the whole fifty pages over there, or for the price of a FPS, try it yourself. I shot a couple hundred rounds switching back and forth between the original one and the radiused one and there was a definate difference TO ME, exactly what that difference is is often a subject of debate.

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The forum over at M1911.org has a 50 page thread archieved discussing exactly this (I dont know forum edicate so I wont post a link, but its easy enough to find).

Please, link it up.

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I got one and installed it in the Commander from Hell. It helps slow down the slide by hitting the hammer lower, giving the slide less mechanical advantage to push the hammer back. The CfH still has other issues, but at least it's now reliable with seven round mags.

ETA: It also is a much tighter fit in the extractor than the fac tory Colt part. Fitting it was one of the few gunsmithing tasks I didn't terminally screw up.

Edited by revchuck

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Paul is right on the money, it changes the FEEL of the recoil but not the recoil. We have recoil, the amount cannot be changed. It goes somewhere and we feel that in a certain way, and we all feel it a bit differently. The short radius firing pin stop changes the feel of the recoil by changing when that recoil is transmitted to different components of the gun and our hands.

I have done extensive testing in this area, in combination with slide weight, mainspring and recoil spring weights and non-moving weight in the gun. I shoot better with a long radius firing pin stop across the board even though a short radius stop feels better. Other people might benefit from trying different combinations, and it is Johnny's (1911Tuner) normal gracious nature to help people find what works for them. Hell of a nice fella and he really does understand how the 1911 works which is pretty rare.

In some applications it is necessary IMO, like 45 Super or 460 guns or HOT 10mm.

Like most things the ONLY way to objectively evaluate it is using time and points. Feel is nice, but hit factor is EVERYTHING when we start modifying our guns. If it doesn't make your hit factor go up it isn't worth doing.

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I just got one of these in last night from Brownells to try in my open gun (mostly stock Trubor). I've been really working on my grip and running a lot of timing drills to improve my recoil management (keep the dot from dipping under the target as it's coming back down). I wanted to fit a spare extractor and firing pin stop to keep in the range bag anyway so I thought I'd play around w/ one of these, as well as different spring and buffer combinations, to see if after weeks of working on "me" there's something mechanical that can aid me. Plus I thought I might feel more comfortable that should I try light, variable springs this will balance out the time before the barrel unlocks. We'll see if it does anything......

Edited by rvb

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Are you using a standard firing pin stop and filing it on the inside lower edge?

Chuck, if you shoot the match tomorrow night...please bring the gun that is modified. This sound like something that needs study.

Thanks for the info guys.

Buddy

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Buddy, most of us have used EGW oversized firing pin stops, they come with a square edge on the hammer cam that the user can set to the radius of choice. You want at least a .075" radius IMO, leaving it square or relatively so is hard on the hammer.

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Buddy, most of us have used EGW oversized firing pin stops, they come with a square edge on the hammer cam that the user can set to the radius of choice. You want at least a .075" radius IMO, leaving it square or relatively so is hard on the hammer.

Good advice, a tiny radius is also very hard on the hammer pin. As I found out the hard way. <_<

A tiny radius allowed a super light springs and great feel, but shearing a hammer pin during a match made it a moot point.

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I recently ran this experiment, but couldn't get to the range in time to test it before forgetting all about the change.

I was amazed at how badly I shot, the sights tracked quite differently and my timing was way out. It dawned on me prettly of course but I was interested in the experience because there was no gimick induced awareness during the test.

For me recoil felt the same.

P.D.

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Buddy, most of us have used EGW oversized firing pin stops, they come with a square edge on the hammer cam that the user can set to the radius of choice. You want at least a .075" radius IMO, leaving it square or relatively so is hard on the hammer.

Good advice, a tiny radius is also very hard on the hammer pin. As I found out the hard way. <_<

A tiny radius allowed a super light springs and great feel, but shearing a hammer pin during a match made it a moot point.

That and it's hard to get new oval hammer pins for the now-ovalled holes in the frame. BTDT ;)

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That and it's hard to get new oval hammer pins for the now-ovalled holes in the frame

Wow, what gun or who's frame if I may ask?

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I just replaced my firing pin stop on my open gun with a EGW oversized one to reduce clocking on my extractor. Long story short, I did add a small radius, but the impulse was much higher than the one I had in it with a very long radius. Now the challenge is to mimic the radius of the old firing pin stop.

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Cool. Digging up a 6 year old topic.

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Not sure I understand the claims of frame damage. The original 1911 designs had square fps radii. They were allegedly tweaked for the a1 models for cavalry use because of difficulty with single-handed racking by cavalry officers.

I do perceive less recoil. The amount of total energy imparted to the platform is the same, but more of it is consumed by overcoming the reduced mechanical advantage on the hammer as it compresses the mainspring.

Your milage will vary of course but a square fps and a 14lb recoil spring in my duty piece runs GREAT and very manageable bounce with no dip.

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note to self: check date of last post before posting. :blush:

But since folks are now reading this again, I'll say that adding the radius on the EGW stop made a significant difference in my open 9mm gun. The more radius I added the lower the impulse and my gun shoots flatter. So, the square or the ~45 deg STI firing pin stop, which is what I mimicked at first, may be good for non-comp guns, but at least for me or my 4.5" shorty with an EGW comp the long radius is better. BTW, I have a STI stop on my limited gun.

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On 6/15/2014 at 7:56 PM, TriggerMeister said:

note to self: check date of last post before posting. :blush:

But since folks are now reading this again, I'll say that adding the radius on the EGW stop made a significant difference in my open 9mm gun. The more radius I added the lower the impulse and my gun shoots flatter. So, the square or the ~45 deg STI firing pin stop, which is what I mimicked at first, may be good for non-comp guns, but at least for me or my 4.5" shorty with an EGW comp the long radius is better. BTW, I have a STI stop on my limited gun.

Hello I am new to open and just picked up a Brazos 5 in open gun in 38 Super. I have recently been experimenting on my limited gun with the EGW slide stop and a very small angle cut at the bottom of it and I believe overall I like the recoil sensation it provides. I was wondering if this fp stop would also be beneficial on an open gun keeping the slide locked slightly longer to allow more gases to work the comp before it started in it's  reward motion. Sounds like you have experimented with this. Am I understanding correctly that you are saying the more customly found sterp angled back fp stop produces better results for you with an open gun?. Thanks

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Hello: I don't want this to sound to coarse but you are new to open and my advice is to just shoot it. Don't worry about all the little details you are asking about since it will drive you crazy. Find a good load from a fellow shooter and shoot that for 30,000 rounds. Then decide what you would like to change. Bob builds some very good pistols that have taken shooters all the way to Grand Master. He knows what works so trust the pistol you have till you get lots and lots of rounds down range. I have seen lots of shooters come and go because they over think things to the point of spending a s#!t ton of money on stuff they don't need. I am not saying this to discourage you but to help you save some money and enjoy the sport more. Thanks, Eric

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Aircooled,v

42 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: I don't want this to sound to coarse but you are new to open and my advice is to just shoot it. Don't worry about all the little details you are asking about since it will drive you crazy. Find a good load from a fellow shooter and shoot that for 30,000 rounds. Then decide what you would like to change. Bob builds some very good pistols that have taken shooters all the way to Grand Master. He knows what works so trust the pistol you have till you get lots and lots of rounds down range. I have seen lots of shooters come and go because they over think things to the point of spending a s#!t ton of money on stuff they don't need. I am not saying this to discourage you but to help you save some money and enjoy the sport more. Thanks, Eric

Very sound advice and appreciated. I do tend to overanalyze everything and sometimes look to solve something that isn't wrong. Other than the addition of a wedge mainspring housing rather than the standard plastic which I know I like the feel of in a 2011 grip, I do plan to just shoot it. Once I gain experience with it I would decide if there are modifications I would want to do. All that being said however if you are willing to share your experience with a square edge stop versus a more angled I would be interested in listening for future reference,thanks

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Hello: On an open pistol I like an angled firing pin stop. I actually cut the firing pin stop so it contacts the hammer higher up giving more leverage so the slide can cycle easier. I have tried the squared off firing pin stop and for me it just seems to give me more muzzle rise under recoil. Thanks, Eric

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