Winchester versus Hodgden Powders

[00bullitt]

Who has used both powders in similar loads that can give good comparisons of the 2. I have used alot of Titegroup and am considering switching to 231 or WST. From what I understand is that Winchester manufactures alot of powder for Hodgden and that Hodgden does not actually manufacture their own powder but buy it from other manufacturers. Is Winchester a better powder than Hodgden? I figured QC may be better straight from the manufacturer.Its more locally available to me than Hodgden and a tad cheaper. I'm interested in the differences between Titegroup and WST,WSF,and 231 mostly in the 9mm load for 124/125's.

[ofcrfs242]

I mainly shoot Titegroup but recently did some experimenting with 231 all in 40. The 231 at major loads seemed to shoot good and had a little less smoke with lead. Loaded some 231 at minor and had a lot of unburned powder getting into the action. My Glock didn't mind it but something with tighter tolerances may not be so forgiving. Titegroup seemed to be easier to make major with.

ETA Sorry no experience with the two in 9mm

Edited February 14, 2008 by ofcrfs242

[SA Friday]

Titegroup can be temp sensitive, WST can be reverse temp sensitive. For loading 124/5 bullets in 9mm, Titegroup and WST or WSF are not bad choices. TG and WST have similar burn rates, but they are made differently. Titegroup uses nitroglycerine (sp) and burns really hot. WST does not burn even close to as hot as Titegroup. Titegroup is the more common choice out there amongst USPSA shooters, but both are used regularly. WST will not smoke as much with a moly coated or lead round. I have shot both TG and WST with 147gr bullets and prefer Titegroup over WST with a jacketed bullet. If these were my only two choices, I would use the WST with moly bullets (a lot less smoke).

WSF has a slower burn rate than WST, and has a very different timing feel; more of a push than a snap like you will feel with TG or WST. WSF feels more like SR7625 at minor pf levels.

Unless you are looking for overall performance and are shooting jacketed bullets, load with Titegroup and don't look back. I really spend too much time dicking around with different loads, but I enjoy it. If you are looking to get to the shootin, TG and don't even second guess the decision.

Edited February 14, 2008 by SA Friday

[SA Friday]

Oh, forgot... TG sometimes disagree's with CZ guns. They start to tumble. I know this is an issue with 147's, but not sure about 125s.

[ipscbob]

I have shot lots of WST in .40 major loads with 180 gr. bullets. Good accuracy and consistency, meters well, and is VERY clean in major 40 loads. I would think that QC is the same regardless of whether it comes from the original manufacturer or a reseller of Hodgdon's caliber. I have had great results from both Hodgdon and Winchester powders and have ZERO worries about QC from either.

[00bullitt]

As for feel......does WST feel like TG with 124/125 jacketed bullets or is there a big difference?

I am considering switching mainly becasue of availability local to me and I'm down to my last pound of TG. I really like the feel and accuracy of my TG load.

[gm iprod]

All Hodgdon and Winchester Ball Powders are double based (Nitro-Glycerine and Nitro-Cellulose) and made in the US. Graphite coateing is added as a retardent

TG is very similar to the old WSL. I use the same loads in my NRA AP 38Super. Velocity is within 15fps average over 10rounds.

HS6 IS 540

HS7 IS 571

Titewad is similar to the new Winchester AA Lite.

HP38 is similar (nearly identical) to 231, some charts show it as a little faster than 231.

H110 is same as 296.

A little testing will go a long way.

00Bullit.

I would expect you to find WST a little fast for 124gr Jacketed close to minor. I found that I could not reliably get minor with lead but was a little better off with Jacketed, but pressures were a little high for my liking. TG is way better. I suggest you look around further before heading down the WST road.

[00bullitt]

All Hodgdon and Winchester Ball Powders are double based (Nitro-Glycerine and Nitro-Cellulose) and made in the US. Graphite coateing is added as a retardent

TG is very similar to the old WSL. I use the same loads in my NRA AP 38Super. Velocity is within 15fps average over 10rounds.

HS6 IS 540

HS7 IS 571

Titewad is similar to the new Winchester AA Lite.

HP38 is similar (nearly identical) to 231, some charts show it as a little faster than 231.

H110 is same as 296.

A little testing will go a long way.

00Bullit.

I would expect you to find WST a little fast for 124gr Jacketed close to minor. I found that I could not reliably get minor with lead but was a little better off with Jacketed, but pressures were a little high for my liking. TG is way better. I suggest you look around further before heading down the WST road.

How about Winchester Super Field?

I've got 100 loaded up with 4.1 of 231 to try out. Everyone I've talked to says to try WSF.

[gm iprod]

When Winchester discontinued WSL, WAP, 540 and 571 they left Super Field in, it works brilliant with 1 1/4oz 12g lead loads. I can't get any info out of Hodgdon, I don't think there ever was direct equivalent. Nothing seems to work like Super Field. I suspect there will be a Hodgdon powder around that burn rate sooner or later. I suspect Super Field is very similar to the old 473 (long discontinued) and seems a little quicker than Unique / Univ Clays in the cartridges I have used it in.

I used a lot of Super Field for hot 9mm loads before I discovered 3n37.

[nm3gnr]

I have used both Titegroup and WST,231. WST burns clean and to me, has a softer recoil impulse than Titegroup. 231 is also a good powder but is a little dirtier than the other two.

.40 cal 170-200 grain bullets

Universal Clays is also a good powder, but I like WST better.

[revchuck]

I played with WSF a few years back. It worked fine in 9x19, .38 Special and .357 Magnum, but really disliked cases larger than that - I had something like a 200 fps ES with .44 Special. It's a shame - I was hoping for a better-metering, cleaner substitute for Unique. I SWAGed a .357 Mag Major load with 158 grain RNLs that worked really well, but stopped using it since Winchester never published .357 Mag data, and I'm not that adventurous.

[Nik Habicht]

I spent years loading my production ammo with 231. At some point I decided to try Titegroup, which is my current powder choice. TG burns a little cleaner than 231, with less residue, and I think I use .1 or.2 less powder per round. That's it as far as the differences go. I could be perfectly content loading with either one.....

Out of Glocks 115s, 125s, and 147s all seem to work in 9mm.....

[19852]

The only Hogdon powder I've used is Titegroup and I don't use it anymore. I was using it in a CZ 75 and I found my groups to be anything but tight. The other issue I had was with my FO front sight. It seemed that I was going through light rods very quikly. When I stopped using Tite the FO's lasted much longer. Maybe the muzzle blast was overly hot? I still use W231 in my .45's. I use Ramshot or VVN320 in my 9mm. W231 is cheap in my area.

[Derwoodski]

I have used WSF with success. It is my load of choice over hs6 or TG.

125gr LTCN

4.5gr WSF

Winchester small pistol primer

1.130 oal

1020 fps out of a stock CZ-75B (need 1008 for minor)

Nice handling load, very tractable flat slide action, minimal smoke, and good grouping.

I have loaded similar loads with zero 124gr fmj with good result ( 4.9 grns and 1.090 oal) runs about 1030 fps