PistolPete Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Just curious if this will be the big dog in USPSA 3-gun or do you think a traditional auto loading tube fed shotgun with speedloaders will still be king? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I just dont know....it has some merit...and some shortcomings. And some folks resist change..and will run what they are comfortable with. Your guess is as good as mine Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineshootah Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Just curious if this will be the big dog in USPSA 3-gun or do you think a traditional auto loading tube fed shotgun with speedloaders will still be king? Pete There have been a couple threads about this already, the major issue being the mixed stage.. shot shot shot slug shot shot slug.. messes with the saiga mag fed ability. End of tube feeders Saiga discussion Enos Search for Saiga.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Before I posted this topic I did a search for "Saiga" and I only came up with 2 posts. That is why I posted this. Now when I do a search I come up with several pages of posts. WTF!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 The new magwell in development which allows straight in seating of the mags should be a big help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) The higher the round count stage, the bigger the advantage. I have started just loading my mags accordingly for mixxed load stages much of the time. There was a stage at the local match this past weekend that was 2 slug, 18 shot. I started with one slug +9 shot, and a second mag of one slug and 9 shot. I had the third fastest time on the stage against other open shotgunners. I got 2nd in Open at the state shotgun match last fall with the Saiga-12 too...this is one case of technology making up for my mediocre shooting skill Edited February 14, 2008 by SinistralRifleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LdyGunner Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Can't speak for everyone, but it is going to be for me. Pulling everything together now so my new pistol and my shotgun will all be ready for next season. I've been wanting one of these for over a year and my other half insisted that they would never catch on and it would be a waste. He said I couldn't until someone else at our club actually got one. Well guess what's started showing up at more and more matches lately. I love my Benelli, and no doubt if I shoot limited I'll use it, and it will get plenty of use during skeet and hunting season, but for Open I want the Saiga. I think there are some folks who are probably faster with their tube guns because they're used to them, but I am just much more comfortable with a mag fed shotgun that's more rifle-like. To each their own. Can't wait to get mine set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 FYI: Here is a reply from Tony at Tromix about getting on the wait list for a conversion. "I am no longer adding guys to the wait list. It is full into 2010." Tony I think that says it all right there... Is there anyone else out there working on Saigas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegot38 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 The new magwell in development which allows straight in seating of the mags should be a big help. Where, when, how! The gun is bear (no pun intended) to reload with speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 FYI: Here is a reply from Tony at Tromix about getting on the wait list for a conversion."I am no longer adding guys to the wait list. It is full into 2010." Tony I think that says it all right there... Is there anyone else out there working on Saigas? Just put a dot sight on it and a polychoke and you're good to go as far as competition is concerned. Kreb's Also does conversions....and there are others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) Are the ten round mags still available ? All I see is the fivers.. Edited February 14, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) I don't know enough about big time 3-gun shooting to say whether it is the way to go or not. I simply don't get much match time with it. I can say that I have a lot of fun with mine and it has gotten me interested in doing more shotgun shooting when the conventional shotguns just didn't interest me. The mag well from www.MDarms.com will be really nice. He has some pics of it on the http://forum.saiga-12.com/ and it seems like it is coming along, possibly in the spring. In the meantime I have gotten my reloads considerably smoother (faster but I haven't timed myself in a while) by dremeling my bolt to load to a closed bolt more easily, making myself a good mag release lever to ease weakhand reloading, and practice. I also made a mag cinch to hold two mags together and molded my own kydex mag pouch (its a huge mag pouch, it looks really funny). Ten round mags from AGP are on the net at a bunch of different locations. Mine have worked well... after I messed with the feedlips to feed the high brass of slugs better. Tony from Tromix is the man to go to for a conversion with all the trick stuff like the shortened gas system. He is obviously slammed with orders though. The other guy to talk to, who is actually recommended by Tony, is Esteban at http://www.ipscgun.com/ (something tells me he'll know something about our game). I did two of my own conversions and it actually isn't very hard at all. There is a ton of info from Tony and other guys on the Saiga12 forum. I e-mailed Tony and he gave me tips. It is doable with a Dremel and patience, but is really easy with a mill and Tig welder. Edited February 14, 2008 by GTOSHootr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dochoc Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 The new magwell in development which allows straight in seating of the mags should be a big help. Where, when, how! The gun is bear (no pun intended) to reload with speed. I have the factory magwell with the factory 8 round mags ,and it is a simple slip in job.No wiggling or rocking.Push the mag release and the magazine drops out and you can click a fresh one in.Very slick.Magazine insertion can be done bolt open or bolt closed,you cannot tell the difference without looking.Now just need some of those MD 20round drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 certainly won't be for kalifornia shooters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 The new magwell in development which allows straight in seating of the mags should be a big help. Where, when, how! The gun is bear (no pun intended) to reload with speed. I have the factory magwell with the factory 8 round mags ,and it is a simple slip in job.No wiggling or rocking.Push the mag release and the magazine drops out and you can click a fresh one in.Very slick.Magazine insertion can be done bolt open or bolt closed,you cannot tell the difference without looking.Now just need some of those MD 20round drums. If the new mags allow strait-in seating like a handgun or an AR, then mag change times should start to approach 1.5 to 2 seconds, just like an AR. And we have USA-made 10 rounders available now. For those sticking with a tub-fed open shotgun, I am hard pressed to imagine how they will be able to grab and stuff 2 of the 5 round speed loaders in as short a period of time. I guess with enough effort, we could try to design stages to negate the advantage of the newer technology offered by the Siaga. But, would that be in the spirit or best interests of the sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Are the ten round mags still available ?All I see is the fivers.. www.agparms.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineshootah Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 But, would that be in the spirit or best interests of the sport? Oh no... That question will open a can a worms for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Ain't gonna' run in any USPSA Division except Open. It has been ruled IIRC that mag fed shotguns are Open only (Amidon?). IMG matches play this one different from venue to venue. The rules hafta' let it play and I see rules being made against it if it get's too popular and too competitive right away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 There are other sources for Saiga conversions. One bunch of weirdos has a prototype competition gun set up with a short gas system, two chamber mid-barrel compensator, polychoke, and a dot sight. I hear they are working to get a run of the mid barrel comps going, and have a safe full of saigas ready to build Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Open is the breeding ground for new equipment...I think anyone who can build a better mouse trap...should get to run it! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onyx Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 When the top dogs like matt burkett and teran butler start to yous that ak -47 then will talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cksh8me Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Hey how did Taran do at Fort Benning running his Benelli hand loaded against the mag fed shotguns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 As already said on this thread, the mag guns take over on long courses of fire. Not the "pistol match with long guns with IDPA round count" matches like, say, last year's USPSA 3-Gun Nationals, but actual 3-Gun matches with parity round count between platforms and real distances on appropriate stages I don't know about Taran, but Benny Hill hand loading against a mere A-Class shooter with a mag-fed gun over a 30-round field course a few years ago: the mag-fed guy cleaned his clock. On a 8-round course: no advantage. 12-round course: no advantage. 16-round or better...the mag fed guns start taking over, and the more rounds involved the worse the disparity gets. Coming from a guy who has been running a mag fed gun for the last six years, that is Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onyx Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) LOLOLOL LIKE I SAID WHEN THE TOP DOGS TERAN MATT AND EVERY TOP 10 GUY IN 3 GUN STARTS SHOOTING THE AK-47. THEN PEOPLE WILL SWICH. MOST LIKELY WONT HAPPEN. BUT WE WILL SEE AND BENNY HILL IS WORLD CLASS BUT NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WERE HE WAS 20 YEARS BACK. HE ALSO DOES NOT LOAD WEEK HAND.... BUT YOU ARE FUNNY THOUGH Edited February 15, 2008 by onyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Open is the breeding ground for new equipment...I think anyone who can build a better mouse trap...should get to run it!Jim Jim, those words are the basis of our sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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