Drilling The D**n Trigger Bar

[TRG65]

The trigger bars are exceptionally hard. I have broken 4 - 5/64" bits 2 Dewalt cobalt metal cutting bits, 1 black oxide dewalt bit, and another manufacture titanium bit.

To soften them up I used a hobby (butene) torch to heat them to just starting to turn red in a totally dark room, well except the torch light. Then let them air cool. Also I have tried heating them to glowing red in a lighted room and then air cooling. Either way...no joy.

For a drill press, I'm using a dremel tool drill press. I have tried various speed setting all to no avail.

I am using cutting fluid to keep the bit cool, but at the higher speeds that isn't working and the tip of the bit gets red hot.

Please tell me what I'm missing. I managed to do one trigger several months ago but that was for someone else. Now, that I have 3 triggers I need to do for myself I can't get anything to work. Two of the triggers are factory glock triggers the other is a lightening stike trigger.

Any help would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks

Seth Ritzman

[BrianH]

Everything I've read just calls the bars "steel"...no type or condition, although I would guess they're heat treated.

The problem you are having is that the Dremel runs WAY too fast for what you are trying to do. You need to find someone with a drill press and put it on its slowest speed, new sharp drill (don't waste your money on coated drills, just get cobalt) hold it tight in a small vise or something similar, and thin oil. Push on it till you pull a chip, don't let the drill dwell on the spot you are drilling...it can harden up.

[shred]

I had decent luck with a small ball-end Dremel bit and some grindstones to start. Took a while though. A diamond bit might be quicker.

[GlocknSchpiel]

First, lightly remove the Plating. With the plating still there, the base material can't rid itself of excess carbon, this will keep the steel at or near original hardness. Get rid of the plating and then heat to "Cherry Red" then air cool SLOWLY!

For a 1/16" drill, you need a press set at or near 2k RPM (4k is ideal for this diameter, but I don't know of too many DP's capable of this speed). Feed it slowly. You're still going to have a fun time getting thru the material. A cobalt drill ir #0 Center Drill would be the WTG.

I'm not sure what type of material it is, so I can't give any clues to rehardening it.

Good Luck,

Glockn...

[TRNinTX]

BJ was sure that drilling the trigger bar would make him shoot better! We spent more money on drill bits than the d**n bar was worth. When he finally got a hole through it his 34 would not reset and would have probably gone full-auto if he had ever put ammo in it. Oh well, so much for home gunsmithing.

[tightloop]

After you're through cussing that Glock, chunk it in the vault and get a 1911. Best trigger on any pistol.

[cpty1]

I'm no gunsmith, but I've drilled several bars and never had any trouble. I assume when you say drilling the bar you're talking about moving the hole for the trigger spring up. I take a Dremel chucked with a cutoff wheel and cut off the existing hole. Then heat the piece up with a torch until it's glowing red and let it cool. I then take a plain whole 3/8" drill (don't remember which size bit....match it to the existing hole before you cut it off) and simply drill a new hole. Take some polish or paper and clean up any rough places left from the dremel cut or the drill and it's done. I've got 3 Glocks, 2 which are shot extensively, with this modification and I've never had a problem with reset issues. I have seen some problems where a gun would actually fire on the trigger depression stroke as well as on the reset, sometimes even double on the reset, but those problems were usually related to a trigger tab modification as opposed to a spring relocation mod. Just my $.02. Probably worth half that.

[Little Bill]

Seth-

I feel your pain. I tried drilling my trigger bar with every locally availble drill bit, used a torch, prayed to the mojo gods, etc. Finally, I ordered some 5/64 tungsten carbide drill bits from drillbitcity.com.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/drillcity/5640781.html

With those bits, a new UNheated triggerbar, and using extra super super slow drill bit speed, they cut through the unheated trigger bar like butter. The key, like what BrianH said, is keeping the drill speed as slow as possible. Also, those drill bits are REALLY brittle, and I broke 2 of the 5 as the bit cut through at the end. The technique that I eventually used was to cut with the tungsten carbide bit until the tip pokes through, and then switch to a good cobalt bit for the final break through.

I drilled my trigger bar in two places, to have a total of three holes. I can then move the spring from very high on the bar, in the middle, or back to stock. With my gun, I can run the highest hole that I drilled, and it makes a fairly nice difference in pull.

I don't have a trigger pull gauge, but mine is pretty nice, and crisp.

-Polished / Stoned 3.5 Connector

-Polished / Drilled / Stoned Trigger Bar

-Polished Striker w/ hook surface trued with stone

-Polished / Recontured Safety Plunger w/ 1 coil cut from spring

-Wolff 4.0 Striker Spring

-Glockmeister Competition (extra-power) Trigger Spring

-Homemade kydex trigger stop inside trigger housing

-Slide-Glide

I am up to around 2000 rounds of factory 9mm, no misfires or malfunctions.

If you do any modifications, check the engagement of trigger bar / striker, and ensure that you have not de-activated any of the three safetys.

Good luck.

[eric nielsen]

No drill bit would even start to work for me...

I used a Dremel tungsten carbide cutter, part #9904. Strait end, .084" on the package but it cuts a hole about .092 wide. There's another one that's a ball end (#9905?) & its too wide, like .115 - what I use to engrave tooling at work. It starts off your hole nicely though, like someone said.

I didn't heat the part. Once the hole was started, I used Break-free or whatever was on hand as a cutting oil. Any time the part started to glow I stopped & cooled off the cutter & the trigger bar with a damp rag, put more oil on & went at it again. $25 orange Black & Decker clone of the Dremel.

dvc - eric - a28026

[TRG65]

Well here is a little update. Thanks everyone for the advice, it has been extremely helpful.

I have screwed up the bottom of one trigger bar so badly that the only hole I could make in it was too high. Too high being that it would no longer allow the striker to reset, probably the same problem that TRNinVA experienced. However on the lightening strike trigger I successfully drilled 2 holes above the original. The lower works just fine the upper on the other hand doesn't allow reset. But I found I can't stand the feel of the trigger, I'm too accustomed to the stock trigger shoe. I have 3 new stock triggers on the way from Glockmeister and am going to modify and use those.

I think I have figured out how to get the d**n holes drilled and like anything else it requires having the right tools.

Here is what I think I have figured out; the dremel was going much too fast even on it's slowest speed for anything except tungsten bits which are rather brittle and break easily. In addition to all the drill bits I listed earlier on recommendations I tried diamond and tungsten carbide dremel cutters (7134, 7103 diamond and 9910 TC[9904 is a much better size and shape]). The two diamond cutters were good at starting the holes but getting the whole way through didn't work. With the TC one on the first hole it zipped right through but on the second seemed to lose it about 1/2 of the way. On the Dremel website it says all of these cutters are not designed for drilling and their tips will dull if they are used for drilling.

But I have a wonderful wife, she went along to Harbor Freight on my quest for TC drill bits and when I was looking at a drill press/milling machine she asked if that would work. Long story short I got my birthday present a month early and with a standard black oxide bit and the mill can go straight through the trigger bars, no need for special bits. I only had the mill set for about 200 rpm rather than than the 10-15000 the dremel was operating at. I used both a 1/16" and a 5/64" black oxide bits to drill the final 2 holes. I'm going to try to use a 1/16" cobalt bit on the new trigger bars see how many holes I can fit. That will give me a better idea of how far up the tab causes the gun to loose it's ability to reset.

Summary, if someone else wants to drill their trigger bar tab, use a drill press not a dremel. But if a dremel is what you have, use tungsten carbide cutters or bits and be ready for them to snap. By the way I am very impatient with mechanical things so I must see progress, these are not slow methods you see the metal shaving off.

Oh and one more thing.

Last year I tossed the glocks in the safe and used my 1911's. Had a mediore to poor season. This year I saw the light; had CGR modify a new 34 for me; made IDPA SSP Master class and have had my best season ever so far. Including, but hopefully not limited too-2 #1 SSP MA class finishes at local matches, both as much luck as anything considering the other MA's shooting . So I think I'll stick to the tupperware, it likes me a little better. I'll be happy to sell my 1911's to get them out of my safe to make room for more tupperware. Anyone interested?

[vincent]

Sorry to say, but all of these drilling problems are due to not properly annealing the trigger bar tab. I drill the holes with regular steel bits and a cordless drill with no problems. The key is getting the tab the right temp. The temp is much lower than most people think. I don't remove the original plating and the color is a dark cherry red (a fresh cherry not a marachino cherry). If it get's orange at all you have gotten it too hot and it won't anneal properly. With my torch it only takes a few seconds to heat the tip of the bar and it's actually hard to not over heat it. After it cools I just clean it up with a brush, get a good center punch mark, and then drill it at medium speed with a standard steel bit with my cordless drill. I drill with a 2X4 under the tip of the bar for support so punch through is more controlled.

An alternative to drilling the trigger bar is removing coils from the trigger spring. This is easier to do with standard tools than drilling the bar. A couple of coils off the stock spring seems to work OK. Making the new "hook" on the spring can be a bit of a pain.

YMMV. Be safe.

-Vincent

[mcoliver]

An alternative to drilling the trigger bar is removing coils from the trigger spring. This is easier to do with standard tools than drilling the bar. A couple of coils off the stock spring seems to work OK. Making the new "hook" on the spring can be a bit of a pain.

YMMV. Be safe.

-Vincent

Vincent, I'm a bit confused here. If you make the spring shorter it will pull harder. So the increased pull force will actually make the trigger break harder, right? Since the trigger bar is pulled and it has to go down to release the striker. This would, however, lessen the take-up force?

Thanks a lot.

[Custom Glock Racing]

Take up weight is largly determined by the weight of the firing pin spring. A shorter or stronger coiled trigger spring will lighten the takeup slightly and the break as well. Be aware that using a mod like this can cause reset problems.

[vincent]

I've heard a lot of arguements on how springs work when altered. I still don't understand it completely. I know that GlockMeister sells a stronger trigger spring and when used in conjunction with a light firing pin spring I did get failures to reset. However I can get guns to run with the shortened stock trigger spring on a non-drilled trigger bar. I personally prefer to just drill the trigger bar because it is easy for me. I was just making a suggestion for those that are having problems drilling the bar or for those who don't want to alter it for some reason.

There are several geometry variables and spring weights which need to be balanced in order to get the trigger action to work properly. I put my experiences in the FAQ on this forum. They don't produce a high dollar custom grade trigger job, but it's good enough for most. I find that the overtravel adjustment/shorter reset makes the most impact on shooting as any pull weight under 4lbs seems to not affect action shooting scores.

YMMV. Be safe.

[John Heiter]

I have to agree with Vincent. I've only done about three of these but I think I've figured it out. The annealing is the whole trick. If you get the temp right, you can go through them with a dremel, cordless drill, etc. If you don't, you'll kill a lot of drill bits.trying.

You can get a small plumbers torch kit at Lowes/Home Depot/Harbor Freight fairly cheaply, probably for less than you would spend on broken drill bits without it, and it makes the job pretty easy.

I've never tried the drill press on slow rev's so that might work too. Unfortunately, my "shop" is a coffee table and my "drill press" is a yellow cordless so...

[TRG65]

Well the new trigger bar's finally came yesterday. I used a 1/16" cobalt bit and had the drill press set on about 300 rpms. I had no problems drilling 2 new holes in each. I didn't even try to anneal them.

Thanks to everyone who posted suggestions and experiences.

[fishnfst]

High Tech try using a stock 5lb connector with your drilled bar. I've found it added about 4 oz onto my trigger pull weight but broke earlier and gave a "crisper feel.

[Mad Scientist]

Hey guys try tungsten carbide from MSC corp abot 3 bucks and they cut like a hot nife tru butter with no heating of the bar with can weeken the metal . my .02

John nagel

[Flexmoney]

Did a couple of trigger bars last week. Glock uses different metals obviously.

One was easy. One needed the torch.

[johnhurd]

You guyz had me worried

after reading your posts I waited till a rainy day picked up my drills and set down to task.......... jigged up the first one and I figgured to set the drill then hang a weight off the feed handle and come back now and again to throw a little lube on it.............. touched the drill to the bar and got a curl gave it a little pressure and it went thru like it was plastic. did all 5 "Gs" and it took me longer to get the part out of one gun than it did to drill all 5 holes.... Now I am left with a rainy day and nothing to do and 4 new drills plus the one I drilled the 5 holes with !!!!!

[Flexmoney]

The "what's in seth's safe" drift was moved to the classified section.

[Joe D]

FYI, a slot works just as well. Much easier to do. Just get one of the diamond cutoff wheels from Harbor and cut a slot on an angle where you want the new hole.

OTOH the same results can be achieved by doing it another way without cutting a slot or drilling a new hole.

[Kevin Kline]

FYI, a slot works just as well. Much easier to do. Just get one of the diamond cutoff wheels from Harbor and cut a slot on an angle where you want the new hole.

OTOH the same results can be achieved by doing it another way without cutting a slot or drilling a new hole.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whats the other way???

[vluc]

Now I was thinking of a slot.....nice tip.

[chp5]

I have a drill press, but how do you hold and anchor the trigger bar so you can drill the hole?