Barrel ports or not?

[stockton]

Got my gun built. Dot tracking pretty good with 5.5 Schumann Hybri Comp and Bedell comp but I think it could be flatter. 9 major making 169 PF even at 7.7 Sil. Tested up to 8.3 and just a little flow, so I am certain I have room to work with.

So, how much difference do the ports make, how many and what diameter are you using, and do you have them back angled?

[L9X25]

The barrel ports will make it flatter, but they will make the blast more intense too. It is a trade off and, depending on how well you tolerate the blast, may, or may not, be a good trade for you. I would recommend that you shoot a few guns that have holes and see how the extra blast affects you. You might also get an idea of how your gun might feel.

Personally, I have one of each and like them both, each for different reasons.

[lcs]

Got my gun built. Dot tracking pretty good with 5.5 Schumann Hybri Comp and Bedell comp but I think it could be flatter. 9 major making 169 PF even at 7.7 Sil. Tested up to 8.3 and just a little flow, so I am certain I have room to work with.

So, how much difference do the ports make, how many and what diameter are you using, and do you have them back angled?

I have done a lot of testing with Sil with 121 MG and 115 MG. You could put very small holes in the barrel, but from my testing your potential gains (flatness) will not outweigh the increase in pressure and the possibility of damaging your gun.

Something to think about--Once those holes are in the barrel, you are stuck with em. Every major smith I talked to said "Don't put poople holes in 9 Major guns". Also as the barrel is shot, you will require (at some point) more powder to make major--dangerous!

The other factor to deal with is the amount of powder needed in the case when you reload. You will be spilling powder if you are using a progressive loader when going to 8.3 unless you move very slow.

IMHO, you will not reap the benefits of poople holes in 9 Major.

I have a Nowlin barrel at a little less that 5 inches (without any additional barrel ports) and 7.6 Sil 121MG loaded at 1.172 tracks the dot straight up and down. The dot does not leave the C-move.

Good luck.

[AlamoShooter]

Brazos has a nice info page on his web site about it = What does our gunsmith say?

[XRe]

Stockton is his own gunsmith...

[ipscbob]

My last gun had 3 holes. Lots of blast and only a marginal increase in performance. Latest gun from Bedell has NO holes and I prefer it.

[.40AET]

I had my Open gun built 3 years ago. The gunsmith cut a small slot in the slide in case I decided to put 3 small holes in the barrel. I never did. There are some good powders out there that require a pretty full case to make major.

I'd try 115g bullets before I put holes in the barrel. They shoot flatter than the 124's and I don't mind the extra noise and the hit in the hand.

Good luck

[AWLAZS]

I vote for no holes. My gun shoots very flat without them. I have one of Dan's guns

[PaulW]

Just had Dan Bedell rebarrel and put a new comp on my open gun. Now I have shot ALOT of open class since 1997. I have alwasy put holes in the barrel. Then my first trip up to Dans we went out to test fire some of his new builds and he let me shoot a 38 super comp he had just built. I shot it and looked at him and said "no way this makes major". I was wrong but without the holes it shot so much softer and was so less violent in the face. No holes for me anymore.

[Chris Keen]

My last gun had 3 holes. Lots of blast and only a marginal increase in performance. Latest gun from Bedell has NO holes and I prefer it.

I agree 100%. My first open gun started out with no holes, then later I added some and was marginally impressed. I saw an increase in noise & blast, but very little decrease in recoil. I don't think the trade-off was worth it. My new gun has no holes in the barrel, and I love it. I would not go back to "poople" holes, even if I knew what that meant!

[ipscbob]

Just had Dan Bedell rebarrel and put a new comp on my open gun. Now I have shot ALOT of open class since 1997. I have alwasy put holes in the barrel. Then my first trip up to Dans we went out to test fire some of his new builds and he let me shoot a 38 super comp he had just built. I shot it and looked at him and said "no way this makes major". I was wrong but without the holes it shot so much softer and was so less violent in the face. No holes for me anymore.

Dans comps are extremely efficient on their own....No holes needed period. As an RO, I really hate to run shooters with lots of barrel holes, like a kick in the face

[stockton]

Sounds like consensus is no holes. I guess I'll try a few other guns before I decide its fate.

[TMC]

I have a 4 port Schueman Hybrid Comp with a short 3 port comp in Major 9. 8.0 of Silhouette make 172 +/- and I like it.

I have a 3 port Hybrid Comp and a 3 port comp for my next gun. I hoping it will take less powers to make the same FP with one less hole.

[dansy]

I have two without holes and 2 with 2 holes all shorty I do like the Holes gun better, but these gun are so different it might be because of something else. The only way to know would be too have 2 identical one with one without and shoot a bunch of ammo....

[BSeevers]

i

I would not go back to "poople" holes, even if I knew what that meant!

Call Adam Poppelwell. But its really a Brazos marketing term.

The holes were around long before that. Schuemann Hybrid is probably the first real application. So I will now call them Shummy-holes. Remember this was 175PF days and I really wish we went back to that PF as I think it was more of a factor in shooting. Todd J was the first to really avocate the drilling of the barrel, if I remember right.

My last Open had a Hybrid and its second shot the dot would go below point of first shot. I would shoot it on the way through. I like a gun with no holes like my current one.

[Al Capizzo]

I'm for no holes. I've shot (but not owned) guns with holes and don't see a big advantage. I think you can manipulate powder choice and achieve the same thing, at least in Super. Probably in 9 Major also.

[Radical Precision Designs]

Got my gun built. Dot tracking pretty good with 5.5 Schumann Hybri Comp and Bedell comp but I think it could be flatter. 9 major making 169 PF even at 7.7 Sil. Tested up to 8.3 and just a little flow, so I am certain I have room to work with.

So, how much difference do the ports make, how many and what diameter are you using, and do you have them back angled?

You have started a "dissi'n" war here. A lot of very uninformed opinions are being formulated.

Ports are nothing but a another feature/tool available for "directional" high pressure gases management.

In the past they have been used by themselves to help control muzzle rise during rapid fire. They do very little to reduce actual perceived recoil, as that is not their intrinsic nature. Yet some insist that ports deliver just that in their most basic and primitive form, and when that does not materialize they are unfairly maligned.

Yes, "ports" in a barrel can be a useful ingredient in a compensating system. But too many people just go about poking/drilling hoes all over the place without much thought as to their positioning or size or shape in unison to the available volume of gases available, or the behavior characteristics of the specific powder charge being managed and their relationship to the barrel length.

There are some who believe that while a charge of, let's say ... 9.4 grs. of VV 3n38 will work wonders in a .38 Super, the same will not apply if you were to load it in a Major 9, ... and you had ports in your barrel (in the Major 9) (???)

Many shooters seem to judge barrel ports based solely in their "cuteness" scale, or otherwise their propensity to the "k.i.s.s." principle. The approach to their use should be subjective, based on shooting characteristics of the gun involved, rather than solely the opinion of a few. If a particular custom 'smith uses them in their design, this is because they have an idea of the specific formula being used for that build. The same may not apply after the fact in a "kitchen/garage" project, unless you factor it in before you do it. Don't just go poking/drilling holes "guessing" if they may or may not work. If you do not know ahead of time, just don't do it, unless you do not mind wasting time, money and materials. That is unless you are in the "R&D" business and have a goal in mind for future reference. And ... if you couldn't make them work for you ... please do not go about claiming that "ports" are no good for everyone else in any application. Thank you all.

[stockton]

Thanks for the input Venry! My thought was to do two .125 ports. One right on the barrel /comp junction, the second .500 behind that. I've tested my Sil load up to 8.3 gr. and am making a 167 PF at 7.6, so I have some room to work with to keep the gas action up. I don't mind a little more push and noise if I could get absolute minimal dot movement.

As it is, it tracks well. Stays in the reticle and is pretty predictable. A zone .12 splits at 15 yards are a cinch and I can see the dot the whole time. I have shot several SVs with and without ports and I am not sure I can tell much difference. But what I would REALLY like to do is basically get it where the dot movement would stay inside a head zone inside of 15 yards. Am I getting "greedy"?!

[Radical Precision Designs]

Thanks for the input Venry! My thought was to do two .125 ports. One right on the barrel /comp junction, the second .500 behind that. I've tested my Sil load up to 8.3 gr. and am making a 167 PF at 7.6, so I have some room to work with to keep the gas action up. I don't mind a little more push and noise if I could get absolute minimal dot movement.

As it is, it tracks well. Stays in the reticle and is pretty predictable. A zone .12 splits at 15 yards are a cinch and I can see the dot the whole time. I have shot several SVs with and without ports and I am not sure I can tell much difference. But what I would REALLY like to do is basically get it where the dot movement would stay inside a head zone inside of 15 yards. Am I getting "greedy"?!

While you cite using a "Schuemann Hybri-comp" barrel, do we assume that there are no ports in it from factory ?? Are we talking about the Schuemann "top rib" barrell ?? Did you get it as an "unported blank" ??

If you are using one of these un-ported hybri-comp barrels with a Bedell comp, and your dot is always staying (well) within the lens, then you are doing great. You must have a fantastic grip.

Perhaps you should try a few other powders with slightly lower burn rates and see if that may bring the dot movement to even less; to an acceptable level to you. If not an IF your "hibri-comp" is indeed not "factory ported", then a few judiciously placed, properly placed ports may help (additionally) some. The .125" (or slightly smaller) size ports would provide nice "high pressure" ports without bleeding off excessively your gases.

But, if as you say, your present set up is providing the performance you cite, while "greedy" sounds negative, it is still doable. I am not that sure as to no movement within the "secondary" A-zone area, but then again if your grip is that effective ... anything is possible. YMMV.

[ipscbob]

You have started a "dissi'n" war here. A lot of very uninformed opinions are being formulated.

And ... if you couldn't make them work for you ... please do not go about claiming that "ports" are no good for everyone else in any application. Thank you all.

Venry, read the thread again. None of us that responded professed to be experts on the subject. That is, of course, except for you.

[stockton]

While you cite using a "Schuemann Hybri-comp" barrel, do we assume that there are no ports in it from factory ?? Are we talking about the Schuemann "top rib" barrell ?? Did you get it as an "unported blank" ??

Correct. Rib has no ports. I got it for three reasons, hold more weight at front of gun during recoil, lighter slide due to slot for barrel, allow me to add ports at any time easily.

If you are using one of these un-ported hybri-comp barrels with a Bedell comp, and your dot is always staying (well) within the lens, then you are doing great. You must have a fantastic grip.

6'3", 265 lbs. So, yes.

Perhaps you should try a few other powders with slightly lower burn rates and see if that may bring the dot movement to even less; to an acceptable level to you.

Suggestions? Based on info I have collected, 3n37 heats up gin too much, 3n38 goes compressed, HS6 is too dirty. N350 and Silhouette seemed close in friend's SV IMM but gotta give nod to Sil due to cost. 7625? True Blue? What would you suggest?

[Radical Precision Designs]

Stockton-

You are steady on the right track.

Mostly I shoot Open Major 9 too. My comp system is quite different from yours, but the process of getting that dot to stay put is the same. After experimenting some to see what my gun likes better I settled for VV 3n38, with Silhouette as a standby. And Silhouette is a lot cheaper and does not need to be compressed like 3n38. While the VV 3n38 needs to be compressed, it does so readily without any problems other than careful handloading to avoid spilling too much in the process. I use the same load of VV 3n38 = 9.4 grs with Montana Gold 124 gr. CMJ bullets with an OAL if 1.165" in my Open STI/SVI, in a Glock 17 Open, and in my Open CZ 75 Champion ... all of them Major 9. The dot is nice and very steady. With Silhouette it moves more and the pulse is sharper.

By the way, I have barrel ports in my Open STI/SVI gun but none in my Glock or the CZ Champion. Very soon I will be installing a new barrel and comp in my CZ, and it will have barrel V-ports. The Glock will stay without the ports. So, to "recap", porting is a viable alternative in your case, but (IMHO) only after you really check out some other loads and determine that your steady grip might not be enough to get you what you seek. If you decide for ports, send me a PM for more specific suggestions pertaining to your style of shooting.

[gans]

Stockton'

The following is only my experience and others may have different results, so take it for what it is worth.

Barrel ports can work, but they may act a bit different than a comp. Since the ports are back closer to your hand, they help to keep your hand from rising up. The comp works more towards the front of the gun to keep the flip down. The two work together to create a flatter shooting gun.

There have been some good layouts of barrel ports with mixed results. The better setups will result in a really flat shooting gun. The recoil will be straighter back into your hand. However,your grip can cause the dot to move sideways. And you need to be concerned with the added pressure, the 38 super is more forgiving than the major 9.

I use 3/16" ports to get any kind of usable gas flow. Straight up, not angled. 2-3 for major 9. I would not put a port at the front near the comp pivot point, it can crack off there and accuracy problems can result. I would keep the port back atleast a 1/2" so that the gas flow doesn't disturb the bullet as it leaves the barrel.

The attached pic is a gun that a customer wanted built. I am now building him a second gun exactly like the first to use as a backup. I guess that he thinks barrel ports work.

In conclusion, I would shoot some ported guns first and get a feel of how they work for you. I would not just install them and assume that you will just get the results that you want. The way that the gun is set up and the loads can have an influence the results also. There should be a time when you know if you need them rather than searching a forum for opinions.

Gary

[stockton]

Cool. Thanks guys! I agree I need to play with loads and get to know an open gun a bit more. Starting to pick it up a bit better though. Won every stage last weekend by BIG percentages. Wish BJ would have been there to measure against!

Per Venry's suggestion, think I'll try 3n38 and a few more guns.

Now, after playing with my friend's SV IMM side by side, I'm wondering if my 47.7 ounce gun is costing me transition time versus a lighter gun. His is 42.25.