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the 6.8 major and more


ar15performance

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Right! I guess as everything I shoot pretty much uses IMG rules, I just

dont see an advantage with 6.8 !

So what your saying is at 3G nationals .223 is scored minor ?

ARPERF- I'd hate to see that Garand guy's thumb...

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You would have to figure that out for yourself, I'm not familiar with bullet weights and velocities. But, then cost and availability comes into play as well.

If low recoil for faster splits is your concern build a 221 fireball AR.

Trapr

Edited by bigbrowndog
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Trapr,

Curse You! - You had to go and do it :devil:

My mid range varmiter is a 221 along with an orriginal XP-100, now you have me thinking about an upper/mags for the AR in it :cheers:

I will have to say that it is a sweet cartridge pushing those fast little pills. The 700 gives me .375" @ 100 m with the 40gr Hornady V-max. I wonder how that would do in a gas breather?

Now to see if SWMBO will let it fly :ph34r:

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I can't see it....

IMO .. A .308 will do it all faster better and way cheaper. IMO

And .... just what do you mean with the comment about San Antonio? :huh:

My 308s all 4 of them are alot heavier and slower to get on target than my 6.8 and thats just my opinion.

LOL you can't smell San Antonio from Corpus can you?

The dings? I get bad calls often and it's either just shoot it again or waste time arguing.

I read that you got so many times Bad Calls .... and arguing... <_< maybe its you?

But I don't know nothing and I'm' not much good with an accurate rifle hitting small steel targets :P

Jamie

I can see how someone would not like San Antonio. <_< go to the wrong part of any town and it would not be so good. OR show up with a bad attitude and the town will give it rite back to you :P

Funny everyone I met in Durango seemed so nice

Edited by AlamoShooter
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I can't see it....

IMO .. A .308 will do it all faster better and way cheaper. IMO

And .... just what do you mean with the comment about San Antonio? :huh:

My 308s all 4 of them are alot heavier and slower to get on target than my 6.8 and thats just my opinion.

LOL you can't smell San Antonio from Corpus can you?

The dings? I get bad calls often and it's either just shoot it again or waste time arguing.

I read that you got so many times Bad Calls .... and arguing... <_< maybe its you?

But I don't know nothing and I'm' not much good with an accurate rifle hitting small steel targets :P

Jamie

I can see how someone would not like San Antonio. <_< go to the wrong part of any town and it would not be so good. OR show up with a bad attitude and the town will give it rite back to you :P

Funny everyone I met in Durango seemed so nice

You are assuming a lot and have said nothing about the topic of this post so should I assume you are a troll and looking for a fight?

This will be the only post that waste the space of this forum so please keep it relative or go elsewhere.

Brown dog and I are just having friendly jabs and a friend lived downwind from some cattle in San Anton back in the late 80s.

I don't have anything against Texas, it is one of only 6 or 7 states I would live in.

Edited by ar15performance
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I'm thinking we are only talking USPSA here, as IMGA don't care. I believe both the 6.5 and 6.8 are capable of making major, but are somewhat on the edge. Not too much room for error. The one thing I hate is loading something to major at home and then getting to the match and being placed in minor. you don't get much sympathy from Gregg on that....not even an A for effort!! He kinda looks at you and says "more powder would have worked".

I guess when you look at USPSA Multi-gun, how much of the match is rifle? What percentage? AND...how much of the rifle is going to be paper where it will matter? And is it worth it? Just because it can be done, is it really worth the effort? The advantage at the get go looks huge, but if you are only talking about a small gain, maybe a little more practice time is going to pay off more? Also.....it seems that USPSA multi gun may just allow time plus scoring at the MD/RM's descretion...........so much for major/minor.

Just a few questions you really need to take a hard look at, I guess.

Tim

Edited by TRUBL
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I read to the last post and forgot what this thread was originally about! ar15performance, do you have much pressure with these loads? I've been loading a 110VMax in my 6.8 and can only get 2750-2800fps. Gun has Douglas 20" barrel not sure about twist. Been using 10X and accurate 2230. Accuracy is not that great, .75" groups at 100yds. I've got some Sierra matchking bullets I will soon be trying. I gave up on 3gunning with my 6.8 and have been deer/varmint hunting with it. The 110 VMax works well, very explosive.

EG

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I read to the last post and forgot what this thread was originally about! ar15performance, do you have much pressure with these loads? I've been loading a 110VMax in my 6.8 and can only get 2750-2800fps. Gun has Douglas 20" barrel not sure about twist. Been using 10X and accurate 2230. Accuracy is not that great, .75" groups at 100yds. I've got some Sierra matchking bullets I will soon be trying. I gave up on 3gunning with my 6.8 and have been deer/varmint hunting with it. The 110 VMax works well, very explosive.

EG

With a Douglas I think your twist is 1 in 10". The 130 is a pretty stiff load and was 10x I'll have to check the charge it seems like 27 but start lower, I know it's posted in the sticky of 68forums. I use small primer SSA brass and that gives a little more capacity and the small primers help with accuracy. The 6.8 will perform much better with a 11 or 12 twist barrel. believe it or not pressure runs higher in the 9 1/2 and 10 twist versions. Try the 90gr Speer TNT with RE7, start around 24gr my top load is 29.5 but I have a 11tw Wilson and a 12tw Pac Nor that I chambered with the 6.8 DMR reamer. 10x also works well as does H322 but not as fast as RE7 with light bullets. 335 will probably give you most velocity with every weight of bullet but, the accuracy is not as good as the stick powders.

PRI mags allow you to load t0 2.3" and the tnts shoot better there.

I get a lot of people asking if the 6.8 will make major and thats the reason for the post. I don't usually shoot the 6.8 in 3 gun either but, when I know a certain RO will run the time and score and the shots are 200yds+ I use it just to make sure he and everyone else hears the ding.

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AR15 Per.--- OK cool ;) Not looking for a fight ..just sticking with my brother Tapr. I was poking fun at you for the "Bad Call comments too. Thats why I added the little face with the tongue sticking out. ... The ROs remember arguments and they see the guy come up at the next match and just maybe they are hoping the guy misses.

So I nailed it with the crappy part of town thing.

I am interested in the 6.8 is why I looked at the thread. I think best way for equipment to improve is with the way you are going at it. If every one went at it with the most cost effective nothing would improve.

For now I am leaning to the 6.5 for what I read it can do at long range

<_< One trick you may like is bring two big boxes of fresh Donuts to the match next time. If the RO's Will not touch them...= you know you have some bridges to mend. Its the people that make events great.

Jamie

OH I know its a novice question but ?Why does the small primer give better accuracy? I really like the idea of small primers = so that I only have to stock one size.

Edited by AlamoShooter
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AR15 Per.--- OK cool ;) Not looking for a fight ..just sticking with my brother Tapr. I was poking fun at you for the "Bad Call comments too. Thats why I added the little face with the tongue sticking out. ... The ROs remember arguments and they see the guy come up at the next match and just maybe they are hoping the guy misses.

So I nailed it with the crappy part of town thing.

I am interested in the 6.8 is why I looked at the thread. I think best way for equipment to improve is with the way you are going at it. If every one went at it with the most cost effective nothing would improve.

For now I am leaning to the 6.5 for what I read it can do at long range

<_< One trick you may like is bring two big boxes of fresh Donuts to the match next time. If the RO's Will not touch them...= you know you have some bridges to mend. Its the people that make events great.

Jamie

OH I know its a novice question but ?Why does the small primer give better accuracy? I really like the idea of small primers = so that I only have to stock one size.

Small primers seem to give a more consistent ignition in a small case, I don't use magnum primers either.

This particular RO was a nationally ranked cowboy shooter and does not like to lose, he lives here and we all shoot every month. We had a malfunctioning revolver, he gave me 2 -10s because it wouldn't drop after 4 hits with a 9mm, when he came up he reshot the stage because of the problem. fair? I don't think so but he has a name and uses it to his advantage. There are several accounts of similar acts with me and others but they let it go because of who he WAS.

Edited by ar15performance
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Small primers seem to give a more consistent ignition in a small case, I don't use magnum primers either.

This particular RO was a nationally ranked cowboy shooter and does not like to lose, he lives here and we all shoot every month. We had a malfunctiong revolver, he gave me 2 -10s because it wouldn't drop after 4 hits with a 9mm, when he came up he reshot the stage because of the problem. fair? I don't think so but he has a name and uses it to his advantage. There are several accounts of similar acts with me and others but they let it go because of who he WAS.

What is the deal with magnum primers ? I've asked this before but did not get a real response. For instance, Speer lists

magnum primers for 223 with H335 only ?? I use standerd primers and never had a problem, why for a certain powder ??

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Ball powders. are sometimes noted for difficult ignition. I use standard primers with H335 all the time. However, Remington 7 1/2 primers, which are hotter, give slightly better groups.

+1,

most say use magnum primers for ball powder and CCI 41s anvils are further from the cup for reducing slam fires in ARs.

I use 41s for 3 gun but not my varmint or accuracy loads.

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  • 4 months later...
[quote name='bigbrowndog'

......25 rnd mags are made by PRI, C products do not work well.

Brass is more expensive but you can use a 3 Bucc if you're worried about the cost. Bullets are also more expensive but, I use about half as much powder and the rifle weighs 1 lb less before ammo, it's much faster to get back on target than a 308 so if you want to shoot major and take every available advantage it's a no brainer IMO but I also shoot the 5.56x42(SPC) and the 6mmBanshee for longer ranges in minor.

ar15performance,

Please explain the advantage of the 6.8 PSC in 3-gun?

1) Using a brass catcher (3 Bucc) in a match is a nonstarter. So this does not really offset the extra cost of brass.

2.) You acknowledge that the bullets cost more and then claim that you use "half as much powder". The loads that you list in your first post 27.5gr-to-30gr are not "half" of what you would use in the 5.56mm. In fact the two cartridges use about the same amount of powder. This is easily verified any reloading manual that you check.

3.) If a shooter goes with a 6.8SPC in addition to the barrel/upper that they have to buy, they also have to buy magazines 6.8SPC magazines are more expensive than 5.56mm mags. (I like to bring least 4 or 5 for a match). I also like to bring a spare bolt and carrier to a match that I can take from spare upper that I bring.

4.) Most 6.8SPC magazines hold only 25 rounds... which can translate to more reloads= more time.

5.) USPSA generally shoots steel at distance. So there is not scoring advantage there.

6.) In the close-up stages the minor (5.56mm) rifles be will faster with the second follow-up shot. Check the James Tarr article on the 6.8SPC in the May/June 2005 issure of front-site. He found his times were about 5-percent slower and at the time he tested the 6.8SPC, he was shooting a PF of only ~306. I have done a speed drill tests with a rifle that makes a 325 PF and I found that a is about 15-percent slower than the 5.56mm. I have verified the 15-percent speed hit/penalty with two other shooters, one a grand master level shooter and the other an A level shooter.

7.) Shooters that go with the 308W usually shot "Heavy Metal" (HM). The 6.8SPC does not qualify for HMN because the bullet diameter is only .277 not .308. The upshot of this is that you are not going the be competing with the 308W shooters but the 5.56mm shooters, who will be faster then the 6.8SPC.

So bottom line until/unless USPSA changes the way they score rifle there is NO advantage to shooting major.

I do understand the fun/cool factor of shooting a different cartridge that the rest of the pack... and that mat be reason enough!

320pf

Last year I shot my AR10 carbine at a three gun shoot and shooting Major did help. I was using 25 round mags. On steel there is no difference but on paper that 5-4-2 sure adds up faster than 5 3 1

I think it depends on how many steel vs paper targets are set up.

Pat

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