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A Glock trigger without the trigger safety


Cy Soto

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One thing I've noticed with at least one 'kit', and my own experiments, is that some trigger jobs end up with a trigger safety that works, unless you ride the reset.

IOW, rack the slide, like LAMR, and it's fine. Ride the reset, take the finger out of the guard, and...you can still move the trigger back. Not sure how to feel about that.

I would go further to say that some trigger mod combinations will not reset to engage the trigger safety even when racking the slide without riding the re-set or at least will not do it consistently. In playing around I have gotten this result and I have ran into someone actually using a glock with this type of trigger at the last match.

Yep, if the striker spring is lightened too much or the trigger spring is too strong, the striker spring won't have quite enough pull to get the trigger back to the front far enough to allow the trigger safety lever to clear the frame. In those, you can usually see it if you rack the slide and let the trigger off very slowly and see if they stop short of safety reset.

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[Yep, if the striker spring is lightened too much or the trigger spring is too strong, the striker spring won't have quite enough pull to get the trigger back to the front far enough to allow the trigger safety lever to clear the frame. In those, you can usually see it if you rack the slide and let the trigger off very slowly and see if they stop short of safety reset.

All this hand wringing cries of its unsafe-the world will come to an end. We even got the classic post "you won't shoot at my range."

We even got Flex's recount of a gun flying down range at the nationals. Lions, tigers, and bears, Oh My!!!!!!!!! I sold my guns after reading his post!! Hey Flex, the thumb safety could have been off. What are you proposing---Only series 80s with grip safetys intact. Well?????

Sounds like the @PA forum.

We all been shooting 1911s with a "hair" trigger with the only safety located between our ears for years, aside from the thumb safety.

Two areas of issue. One-drawing and putting it in the holster. Two-dropped gun.

An Edge with the grip safety pinned, and the thumb safety off---dropped gun. Our sport. Our rules. NOW.

What is proposed is by no means a deviation from what we have now. You feel afraid, scared, its unsafe----try BASS FISHING.

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We all been shooting 1911s with a "hair" trigger with the only safety located between our ears for years, aside from the thumb safety.

Two areas of issue. One-drawing and putting it in the holster. Two-dropped gun.

An Edge with the grip safety pinned, and the thumb safety off---dropped gun. Our sport. Our rules. NOW.

The only issue that I see here, and I have no idea what to do about is is this - you can see the thumb safety on the edge. And it is supposed to be on when holstering the gun.

It is very easy to disable the striker safety and the drop safety on the Glock unintentionally if you do not know what you are doing - take out enough pretravel and you are there. Functional trigger safety is really the only way that I can think of to have some sort of indication that the other two are functional - or at least have not been disabled unintentionally. With the trigger safety disabled you could very well have a gun with no safeties at all with nobody - maybe not even the shooter being aware of the fact.

Disallowing disabling of the trigger safety will not solve this though. As mentioned above you can have trigger safety effectively disabled without any externally visible indication of the fact or even without intending to do so.

Slav

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It is very easy to disable the striker safety and the drop safety on the Glock unintentionally if you do not know what you are doing - take out enough pretravel and you are there.

What bothers me most about the Glock design is that the "firing pin safety" does not reset when the slide cycles as it does on most guns like the Beretta, SIG, Browning HP. In the latter guns, the trigger must be fully released and repulled to again raise the FP safety plunger after the slide cycles out of battery. On the Glock, anytime the trigger bar is back to the rear, the slide comes forward and it is fully ready to fire. I can envision it would be VERY easy to make one go full auto by screwing with the sear face so that the sear caught the striker tab as the slide came forward with an "iffy" grab.... and as the slide continued forward and the force against the sear by the tab increased due to the striker spring loading up, the striker eventually slipped by the sear and fired the gun coming into battery.

That is what makes me nervous about Glocks. Whenever I do anything to the trigger I always test fire with three rounds in the mag just to be sure.....

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"Increasingly we are flooded with "the Hapsburg Revenge," which is found on pistols which put the safety on the trigger. Putting the safety on the trigger, as we have sometimes remarked, is rather like stamping the combination on a safe door. You press the trigger and the gun goes Bang! You did not have to take the safety off because in effect there was no safety. But we see these pistols more and more all the time. It may be because they are cheaper than the competition, but probably more because they are marketed so well. It is well to remember that there are several items of personal use in which economy of acquisition is probably not a good idea. Prominent in this regard are parachutes, tires and personal weapons."

Jeff Cooper Commentaries

July, 2001

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What bothers me most about the Glock design is that the "firing pin safety" does not reset when the slide cycles as it does on most guns like the Beretta, SIG, Browning HP.

...

That is what makes me nervous about Glocks. Whenever I do anything to the trigger I always test fire with three rounds in the mag just to be sure.....

On this I would have to agree with - "how is that different from 1911?" side of this discussion. Lack of safeties does not concern me when I am riding the reset as long as the gun is safe when I take my finger off the trigger.

Edited by sslav
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"Increasingly we are flooded with "the Hapsburg Revenge," which is found on pistols which put the safety on the trigger. Putting the safety on the trigger, as we have sometimes remarked, is rather like stamping the combination on a safe door. You press the trigger and the gun goes Bang! You did not have to take the safety off because in effect there was no safety. But we see these pistols more and more all the time. It may be because they are cheaper than the competition, but probably more because they are marketed so well. It is well to remember that there are several items of personal use in which economy of acquisition is probably not a good idea. Prominent in this regard are parachutes, tires and personal weapons."

Jeff Cooper Commentaries

July, 2001

I agree, but just to show we are not picking on Glock: the 1911 grip safety is every bit as dumb as the Glock trigger safety since (like the "trigger safety") it works only if nobody touches the gun. based on what I read, John Browning agreed and only added it at the request of the Army. You will notice the grip safety conspicuously absent from the Browning HI=Power which JMB did his way.

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You might try this. I took a little piece of sand paper and sanded my safety so that it is perfectly flush with the trigger face. The safety still works normally but the difference in feel is awesome.

This probably isn't the point of concern for most. Most people are probably looking to take as much pre-travel out of their triggers as they safely can. If you shorten the pre-travel of the trigger, preventing it from going all the way forward, it disables the little safety lever on the trigger.

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You might try this. I took a little piece of sand paper and sanded my safety so that it is perfectly flush with the trigger face. The safety still works normally but the difference in feel is awesome.

If I had a dollar for every Glock or XD owner who did that, I would never have to work again.... :cheers:

You can also use the edge of an X-acto knife at right angle to scrape the center edge to level it off rapidly and it doesn't affect the rest of the trigger face.

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*QUOTE*

If you shorten the pre-travel of the trigger, preventing it from going all the way forward, it disables the little safety lever on the trigger.

Re cut the trigger safety where it touches the frame and it will work again.

True, but the problem with tht is the new "resting position" of the trigger would be in a place where the firing pin safety plunger was partially raised, reducing it's effectiveness. And, the trigger would appear to be fully forward because the center saftey lever is forward as it is supposed to be.

I'm not sying this is horrible, some comp shooters may choose to set up their triggers so they only return far enough to reset the trigger. But, it does negate the FP safety's effectiveness to some degree.

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*QUOTE*

If you shorten the pre-travel of the trigger, preventing it from going all the way forward, it disables the little safety lever on the trigger.

Re cut the trigger safety where it touches the frame and it will work again.

True, but the problem with tht is the new "resting position" of the trigger would be in a place where the firing pin safety plunger was partially raised, reducing it's effectiveness. And, the trigger would appear to be fully forward because the center saftey lever is forward as it is supposed to be.

I'm not sying this is horrible, some comp shooters may choose to set up their triggers so they only return far enough to reset the trigger. But, it does negate the FP safety's effectiveness to some degree.

You could also weld up and re-shape the trigger bar where it contacts the firing pin safety to negate the problem mentioned above.

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buddy of mine did this by sanding down the safety so he couldn't feel it on his finger anymore, and also removing the little leg on the rear. No more trigger safety. I bitched to him about it, he laughed. we put primed only cases in the gun and proceeded to do drop tests etc and not once did the trigger gain enough momentum to overcome spring weight and set the round off. Not saying it couldn't happen, and I wouldn't do it, but I don't think the doomsayers are correct either. It won't bring about Armageddon, the second coming of Christ, or coffee of just the right temperature to drink fresh out of the pot. YVMV

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buddy of mine did this by sanding down the safety so he couldn't feel it on his finger anymore, and also removing the little leg on the rear. No more trigger safety. I bitched to him about it, he laughed. we put primed only cases in the gun and proceeded to do drop tests etc and not once did the trigger gain enough momentum to overcome spring weight and set the round off. Not saying it couldn't happen, and I wouldn't do it, but I don't think the doomsayers are correct either. It won't bring about Armageddon, the second coming of Christ, or coffee of just the right temperature to drink fresh out of the pot. YVMV

Not jumping onto a doomsday bandwagon, but you can apply the same logic as above to just about every safety rule that we have. For instance - lots of people get DQed for 180 breaks but have any one of those 180 breaks resulted in "armageddon, the seconf coming of christ...etc,etc". How about moving or reloading with finger on the trigger? How about not loading your gun until LMR command? But just because an unsafe practice does not lead to an unfortunate event, does not in fact make it safe. To put it in other terms - no odds are good odds for playing russian roulette when you have an option not to play at all. There is simply no reason at all to disable any safeties on the Glock. It is not going to move you up in class, it will not win a match for you. I am all for improving the trigger feel. But if you hate it so much that you need modiffications extreme enough to disable safeties, perhaps chosing a different gun is the way to go.

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buddy of mine did this by sanding down the safety so he couldn't feel it on his finger anymore, and also removing the little leg on the rear. No more trigger safety. I bitched to him about it, he laughed. we put primed only cases in the gun and proceeded to do drop tests etc and not once did the trigger gain enough momentum to overcome spring weight and set the round off. Not saying it couldn't happen, and I wouldn't do it, but I don't think the doomsayers are correct either. It won't bring about Armageddon, the second coming of Christ, or coffee of just the right temperature to drink fresh out of the pot. YVMV

Not jumping onto a doomsday bandwagon, but you can apply the same logic as above to just about every safety rule that we have. For instance - lots of people get DQed for 180 breaks but have any one of those 180 breaks resulted in "armageddon, the seconf coming of christ...etc,etc". How about moving or reloading with finger on the trigger? How about not loading your gun until LMR command? But just because an unsafe practice does not lead to an unfortunate event, does not in fact make it safe. To put it in other terms - no odds are good odds for playing russian roulette when you have an option not to play at all. There is simply no reason at all to disable any safeties on the Glock. It is not going to move you up in class, it will not win a match for you. I am all for improving the trigger feel. But if you hate it so much that you need modiffications extreme enough to disable safeties, perhaps chosing a different gun is the way to go.

So how do you feel about disabling 1911 grip safeties and firing pin safeties? :rolleyes:

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buddy of mine did this by sanding down the safety so he couldn't feel it on his finger anymore, and also removing the little leg on the rear. No more trigger safety. I bitched to him about it, he laughed. we put primed only cases in the gun and proceeded to do drop tests etc and not once did the trigger gain enough momentum to overcome spring weight and set the round off. Not saying it couldn't happen, and I wouldn't do it, but I don't think the doomsayers are correct either. It won't bring about Armageddon, the second coming of Christ, or coffee of just the right temperature to drink fresh out of the pot. YVMV

Not jumping onto a doomsday bandwagon, but you can apply the same logic as above to just about every safety rule that we have. For instance - lots of people get DQed for 180 breaks but have any one of those 180 breaks resulted in "armageddon, the seconf coming of christ...etc,etc". How about moving or reloading with finger on the trigger? How about not loading your gun until LMR command? But just because an unsafe practice does not lead to an unfortunate event, does not in fact make it safe. To put it in other terms - no odds are good odds for playing russian roulette when you have an option not to play at all. There is simply no reason at all to disable any safeties on the Glock. It is not going to move you up in class, it will not win a match for you. I am all for improving the trigger feel. But if you hate it so much that you need modiffications extreme enough to disable safeties, perhaps chosing a different gun is the way to go.

So how do you feel about disabling 1911 grip safeties and firing pin safeties? :rolleyes:

I own a 1911, but I shoot a Glock. I know its internals intimately. I can not comment on what is good or not good for 1911. I'll let others comment on that.

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*QUOTE*

If you shorten the pre-travel of the trigger, preventing it from going all the way forward, it disables the little safety lever on the trigger.

Re cut the trigger safety where it touches the frame and it will work again.

True, but the problem with tht is the new "resting position" of the trigger would be in a place where the firing pin safety plunger was partially raised, reducing it's effectiveness. And, the trigger would appear to be fully forward because the center saftey lever is forward as it is supposed to be.

I'm not sying this is horrible, some comp shooters may choose to set up their triggers so they only return far enough to reset the trigger. But, it does negate the FP safety's effectiveness to some degree.

You could also weld up and re-shape the trigger bar where it contacts the firing pin safety to negate the problem mentioned above.

There is another way, if you know what you are doing. I have done it and it works, but I really don't want to give away too many secrets. Still trying to figure out how to make a living doing this trigger job. Trust me, it is awsome. It uses all OEM parts. Short travel, Short reset. Plunger safety WORKS and I recut the trigger safety for those peskies that want to "see" the safety so that I may shoot on their range. Did I mention that I have not seen or heard of anyone doing a trigger job like this yet? Just to let you all know, it CAN be done, if you know what you are doing.

Oh yea, it is similar to a 1911's single action pull. Very Short amount of travel.

Edited by BIG WILL
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Oh yea, it is similar to a 1911's single action pull. Very Short amount of travel.

I have heard some people that claim that this is possible but I have yet to shoot a Glock with a 1911-like trigger. In my case what I would like to see is a Glock trigger that has a nice/clean ~2lbs break (not mushy). If you manage to achieve this I can assure you that you will have many Glock-owner's undivided attention (including mine).

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Oh yea, it is similar to a 1911's single action pull. Very Short amount of travel.

I have heard some people that claim that this is possible but I have yet to shoot a Glock with a 1911-like trigger. In my case what I would like to see is a Glock trigger that has a nice/clean ~2lbs break (not mushy). If you manage to achieve this I can assure you that you will have many Glock-owner's undivided attention (including mine).

That's actually pretty easy to do. The Sotelo kit will do it and get very close to 2 lbs. I got a very sharp breaking 2.4# trigger using the stock trigger bar with the trigger pivot moved (drill the new hole, trim the end of the trigger bar) and the aftermarket disconnector in the Sotelo kit.

I agree they won't ever feel like a 1911, but they can be made good enough to shoot straight.

The firing pin safety is always going to have some effect on trigger pull, assuming you actually want it to work and not simply be completely raised at the trigger's "forward return" position. The shorter you make the "pre travel" distance, the more vertical you have to make the ramp edge on the trigger bar that lifts the plunger. Steeper face means a little more force to move the plunger against it's spring.

Edited by bountyhunter
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This is a great thread, Ive been kinda wondering about this, I modifed my trigger tab where it pulls it back more and I lost this trigger safety. but ive been trying to modify it to make it work still. even though i kinda think its a joke, the only way I can see this safety work is if you drop you gun maybe?

yes...exactly. glock came up with this safety when they dropped the pistol from a helicopter and the gun landed on its ass....and fired.

i have no intention of ever dropping my gun from a helicopter.... and im very careful when holstering my gun and drawing it. thank you.

I second this. The trigger safety is there to counteract inertial forces imparted on the trigger during a severe G-force incident. Simple physics.

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This is a great thread, Ive been kinda wondering about this, I modifed my trigger tab where it pulls it back more and I lost this trigger safety. but ive been trying to modify it to make it work still. even though i kinda think its a joke, the only way I can see this safety work is if you drop you gun maybe?

yes...exactly. glock came up with this safety when they dropped the pistol from a helicopter and the gun landed on its ass....and fired.

i have no intention of ever dropping my gun from a helicopter.... and im very careful when holstering my gun and drawing it. thank you.

I second this. The trigger safety is there to counteract inertial forces imparted on the trigger during a severe G-force incident. Simple physics.

I think kali does the drop test on guns so they might need it to get certified here.

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